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Dev Blog: Giving Drones an Assist

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#301 - 2014-04-02 08:06:12 UTC
Methonash Qorranto wrote:
So, most folks aren't aware of this, but there is a cross-penalty between SDAs and DDAs: since DDAs objectively offer more of a bonus, a decent droneboat aiming for maximum DPS will throw at least 2-4 of those on.
Everyone knows this because it's how everything else in the game works. The point you're missing is that sentries always had a way to overcome (and even surpass) that gap to heavies, even when they really shouldn't be able to do so. This change simply ensures that the gap is unsurmountable, which is a good thing for inter-drone balance.

Quote:
That's like a DPS loanshark coming up to a sentry pilot, beating the stuffing out of them with a nerfbat, and then saying, "Well, look at all these tactical advantages you've had - guess what? You ALREADY paid for them before (what with having less DPS than heavies), but now you're going to have to pay for them - AGAIN - BY LOSING EVEN MORE DPS!"
No, it's like saying “hey, if you want a specific set of advantages, train a specific set of drones”. Sentries will no longer be the best choice in every way. They still maintain their advantage in immediacy but pay for it by having ever so slightly less damage. This is a phenomenon called balance. It is a good thing.
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#302 - 2014-04-02 08:12:04 UTC
Shilalasar wrote:


1. You have 375 dronebay and another 2 sets in cargohold. Trying to eat through 10+ drones is a waste of time unless have spare bomberwings.
2. so? That makes their tracking better and if someone made it to a place where he can apply dps and you do not you can just abandon and relaunch.
3. If I know nothing then what is the less than nothing you know called?

4. Droneinterface is bad, yes. Welcome to eve. But in exchange you get a weapon that fires when you go afk or are jammed.
5. People have been running sleepersite with drones for ages. You just need to learn how to control AI aggression for PvE. Doesn´t matter in PvP at all.
6. All that explosive damage from lasers is really a problem.
7. true, I guess that is on the list for fixing. Like we are getting faction DDAs now.

Maybe you can not compare them 1-1, but overall drones have massive advantages over turrets esp and very little drawbacks.

The no fittingrequirements is just so strong. Turretships need to downgrade their guns often enough to fit a decent tank while droneboats can fit 3 tankmodules or fill the highslots up on neuts etc.


Is it just me or is this the same argument as "lazors are too strong because i choose to ignore cap and resist problems and focus too much on fast infinite ammo switching" ?

Shame.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#303 - 2014-04-02 08:17:22 UTC
The fighters and fighter-bomber changes are quite intriguing. I'm excited to see how fighters and fighter-bombers behave under the new system, especially with the changes to fighter-bombers. They may actually become very powerful again, and all while reducing server load (for a given number of supercarriers).

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#304 - 2014-04-02 08:21:52 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Bingo. Another huge nerf to drone users , and this is weeks after the destruction in use of the Omni.
It's not a huge nerf by any stretch of the imagination, and it comes on the heels of numerous drone buffs that made them silly effective against everything. This change simply puts them back in a more sane place, both in terms of damage output and damage application.

Quote:
But remember, this is the same guy that brought us the AI change that drove us from heavies to sentries in the first place.
No, it's not, for the simple reason that that never actually happened. Heavies were always awful and sentries were always better — the introduction of rat AI did not change this. If you were using heavies before Level1 AI, you were doing it wrong. Oh, and if you lost tons of drones after the AI introduction, you were also doing it wrong.

Quote:
Plus, I would just love to hear what some gun jockey would say if he had to train a 19 day skill for each ammo type.
Oh, they have to train a whole lot more than that to get each racial variation of their size category.


I guess this argument would fly much better if we had a subcap ship with 1100+ paper dps with just drones.
Johann Rascali
The Milkmen
Churn and Burn
#305 - 2014-04-02 08:29:03 UTC
I'm curious why you're tacking a 100% damage bonus on to supercarriers that may confuse people instead of just increasing the base drone damage. Though I guess that would be more calculator intensive to balance with all the modules and skills suddenly applying.

Blanking signatures doesn't seem to work, so this is here.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#306 - 2014-04-02 08:29:23 UTC
Barton Breau wrote:
I guess this argument would fly much better if we had a subcap ship with 1100+ paper dps with just drones.

If I were to guess, that would probably be the thing: with additions such as faction DDAs being made, we'd start seeing ships doing exactly that and also being able to deliver a couple hundred more with regular guns on top. So the top end would have to be toned down a bit to not make all the 125mb bandwidth ships (including the Ishtar) downright silly.

So in essence, to allow room for further general buffs, the baseline has to be adjusted a bit downwards to ensure that the end result remains somewhat sane.
knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#307 - 2014-04-02 08:38:21 UTC
April fools joke right? You guys are actually fixing SOV for the summer expansion - something that desperately needs revision.
DoToo Foo
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#308 - 2014-04-02 08:48:42 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
... In practice, damage with T2 Gardes and Bouncers will be going down a bit (but with Bouncers gaining a lot of tracking and Gardes gaining a fair amount of falloff) while damage with T2 Curators and Wardens goes up a bit.


So, a 7% nerf to maximum paper Gardes II DPS is just 'a bit'. A large coalition in particular has been calling for nerfs to sentry drone fleets for a while and they should be pleased (even if I am not).

I would prefer a nerf to be called what it is. Tracking will offset some of this (blessed sleeper cruisers begone), but hiding this kind of change breeds suspicion.

This is eve, maybe there is a saturation of suspicion, and nothing devs do can reduce it. I will be looking out for nerf bats around every seemingly positive dev blog.


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seth Hendar
I love you miners
#309 - 2014-04-02 08:49:33 UTC  |  Edited by: seth Hendar
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Grarr Dexx wrote:
So how about giving drone assist back to pirates in lowsec?


The opportunities for confusion about the crimewarch implications of actions (the pilot who assisted the drones would lose sec status and get gate guns without any direct action on their part) means this is not something we plan to change.

Drone assist will continue to be a mechanic that is somewhat limited in empire space, along with other mechanics such as bombs and bubbles.


without any direct action? oh yes, right, because the drones assist automatically when you deploy them indeed......
will you stop pooping on low sec one day? stop the hate on lowsec NOW, we already have enought crippling issues, no need to add some more.....

this summer update seems like a giant "f** you lowsec"...again....

also, i see you increase the volume of fighters and fighters bombers, and reduce the # that a super can deploy, wich make sense.

what about carriers? with fighters twice as big, i see issues
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#310 - 2014-04-02 08:58:12 UTC
Marcel Devereux wrote:
Be aware of the side effect this is going to have on new players wanting to fly the Algos. To reach its full potential you will need to train both light and medium drones. This previously was done with one skill but now will require two. Same thing goes for the Vexor. In both cases you will need to train for three weapon system to fully use the ship. This is not new player friendly.


Actually, it is. Drones will have more damage by default thanks do Interfacing nerf, meaning a new player will be able to push out more damage with lower overall skill. It'll still take time to skill up to full potential, but it won't be crippling like it is today.
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#311 - 2014-04-02 09:05:52 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Marcel Devereux wrote:
Be aware of the side effect this is going to have on new players wanting to fly the Algos. To reach its full potential you will need to train both light and medium drones. This previously was done with one skill but now will require two. Same thing goes for the Vexor. In both cases you will need to train for three weapon system to fully use the ship. This is not new player friendly.


Actually, it is. Drones will have more damage by default thanks do Interfacing nerf, meaning a new player will be able to push out more damage with lower overall skill. It'll still take time to skill up to full potential, but it won't be crippling like it is today.


Both drone interfacing and large turret skill are rank 5, so it might be annoying but definitely not crippling, cruise missiles are also rank 5 skill.
If drones are supposed to be a main weapon system there's nothing crippling about current drone interfacing V.

As it is it actually takes less to learn drone skills then it takes to train T2 BS turrets or missiles, that your skill training plan doesn't fit with drone skills is a different matter.
Celeste Taylor
Ruby Dynasty
#312 - 2014-04-02 09:06:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Celeste Taylor
I was afraid that a bunch of new skills were going to be added which would have been awful since drones are the only thing that uses the Memory/Perception combo. When I first started Eve I remapped to M/P using a bonus remap (after getting my core skills done) to train about 10m SP in drones (which is good enough for almost all 5s not counting carrier skills) after spending the start of that year training charisma skills with the idea of not having to ever revisit them. Thank you for doing the split (much like the Destroyers and Battlecruisers and not like the salvage drone skill which I don't think I will ever train up to 5) on this one since I don't think I will go back to that particular configuration. New skills (non-split) for I/M or P/W maps are okay though since I will probably alternate between them every year from here on out.
Axloth Okiah
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#313 - 2014-04-02 09:14:34 UTC
Two step wrote:
Sounds pretty good to me. I wish you guys used this rebalance as a time to adjust fighter size (and carrier drone bay size to match), so that carriers cannot carry as many extra drones. Make them 600m3 if you are worried about subcaps being able to carry them, or better yet, make them 300m3.
please this ^

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Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#314 - 2014-04-02 09:15:41 UTC
Balancing is excelent.
The Fighters and The Bombers will aslo need a speed boost on approach speed....

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#315 - 2014-04-02 09:33:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
I think it'd be nice if battleships got a boost in drone bay size. Seems rather silly a cruiser like the Stratios has around 400 m3 while the Megathron has 75. I think all battleships should be able to hold a full flight of each drone size. Bandwidth should be the limiting factor for them imo.

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Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#316 - 2014-04-02 09:33:50 UTC
Phacops Alabel wrote:
This all looks good. Is there any chance of you guys looking at the drone UI. Some buttons on the HUD that would launch, recall, engage etc drones would be awesome.


Yeah, that would be really nice.


\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
Camper101
State War Academy
Caldari State
#317 - 2014-04-02 09:41:54 UTC
This better not be April's fools, Fozzie.


I DARE YOU. I DOUBLE DARE YOU, FOZZIE!

2013.03.01 13:30:58 notify For participating in the General Discussion Forum Section your trustworthiness has been adjusted by -2.5000.

My name is Hans. The "L" stands for danger.
Xermish
Cherry Defense Systems
The Initiative.
#318 - 2014-04-02 09:43:07 UTC
I like alot of the blog/changes. Even the drone change for supers, only how will doubling the fighter m3 effect basic carriers. Fighters are the 'main' platform of dps for carriers yet they are already underused (if not at all). Double their size forcing basic carriers to hold less/carry few basic drones will only encourage them to carry sentries (yet again). I'm not going to complain about current mechanics/fleet doctrines, just more curious on when carries will get a pass and have fighters be more encouraged.
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#319 - 2014-04-02 10:25:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Freelancer117
I love how the primary drone skills get split up like with the ship tiers, and the secondary drone skills be more applied to the drone group (fighters will see a comeback)

The rebalance of "drone ship" attributes across the different drones is very nice, tech 2 which is player made stays the most important (Drone Interfacing skill wil still be trained to lvl5 )Cool

Question: did CCP had to redo the drone code ? and will there be a new drone UI soon (not ™) ?

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Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#320 - 2014-04-02 10:27:46 UTC
Sounds good overall. Finally Amarr/Caldari drones will be useful! Any chance of some tweaks to drones so they are less prone to overshooting moving targets and then missing all the time?