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Dev Blog: Giving Drones an Assist

First post First post
Author
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#221 - 2014-04-01 21:32:20 UTC
so no low slot drone navigation computers then ??? :((

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Venix
An Eye For An Eye
Phoebe Freeport Republic
#222 - 2014-04-01 21:33:11 UTC
The damage on the spread sheet is not clear. All drones of equal size and tech do the same amount of damage now? I see 64 damage for each t2 heavy drone which is not what it says in the blog.
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#223 - 2014-04-01 21:34:26 UTC
Venix wrote:
The damage on the spread sheet is not clear. All drones of equal size and tech do the same amount of damage now? I see 64 damage for each t2 heavy drone which is not what it says in the blog.

That's how it works currently--they all have the same "base damage" but each has a different "damageMultiplier" which is how damage actually gets determined.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#224 - 2014-04-01 21:35:27 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

Yeah, whatever.
I always believe everything a goon tells me.
That has worked so well, for so many.


I'm not a goon and I can tell you he's telling the truth about newbies. They're a prized asset in the swarm.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Kismeteer
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#225 - 2014-04-01 21:35:48 UTC
I would appreciate if you would examine drone sig radius as well.

If I'm in a small ship, I should be able to consistently hit medium drones, I would think. And if I'm in a BS, I should be able to consistently hit sentries.
Venix
An Eye For An Eye
Phoebe Freeport Republic
#226 - 2014-04-01 21:45:57 UTC
Chris Winter wrote:
Venix wrote:
The damage on the spread sheet is not clear. All drones of equal size and tech do the same amount of damage now? I see 64 damage for each t2 heavy drone which is not what it says in the blog.

That's how it works currently--they all have the same "base damage" but each has a different "damageMultiplier" which is how damage actually gets determined.



Did not even see that column. I feel like standard damage should have been done. Ogre IIs are still going to be the most used by far.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#227 - 2014-04-01 21:47:03 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

Yeah, whatever.
I always believe everything a goon tells me.
That has worked so well, for so many.


I'm not a goon and I can tell you he's telling the truth about newbies. They're a prized asset in the swarm.


Easily indoctrinated and spoiled by the offers, yep.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#228 - 2014-04-01 21:55:26 UTC
Yay! Faction DDAs! Hopefully they still give me added DPS beyond what I have now... after taking into account the slight sentry DPS nerf... and after I train for four frickin' months to get the four specialization 5 skills.
Anika Ataru
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#229 - 2014-04-01 21:59:41 UTC
Fact, that almost no one noticed, Caldari drones are already in proposed position being second best in terms of damage and second worst in tracking and speed, worries me a bit. Fact, that guy who rebalancing them didn't noticed that as well, worries me much more..
So Fozzie, you "fixing" Caldari drones by leaving them in place, where they already are. Makes sense.

I always thought damage modifiers between Amarr ad Minmatar drones should be switched as it was really out of place, so I approve that one.
Making drones less skill heavy via change in drone interfacing and then separating scout drones into two skills instead of just one, is pretty silly though. I would rather see light/medium/heavy merged into one.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#230 - 2014-04-01 22:03:18 UTC
I just came in my pants. Drone sites are worth doing. DRONE SITES ARE WORTH DOING!!


Tarek Raimo
Eleutherian Guard
#231 - 2014-04-01 22:10:39 UTC
Moneta Curran wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
boohoo


Must you consistently whine about everything?



Is he trolling maybe?
War Wiessager
ChemiKals
Xenta.
#232 - 2014-04-01 22:11:56 UTC
So my question is this, given what has been done in the past with battlecruisers and destroyers, if you can fly the t2 sentries now, will you be able to fly them post patch? I agree that there is lot of training for drones, but how does stacking more skills make it more friendly to new players? instead of changing skill training etc etc, why not work on UI for drone control, giving them buttons like every other weapon system, recall buttons, group deployment buttons, a real change.
Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#233 - 2014-04-01 22:16:36 UTC
Yay, I'm glad I trained all drone spec to V. Also having drone spec skills add benefits to sentry drones has been on my wish list for 5+ years. Will the racial drone spec skills finally be a requirement for T2 sentries?
tsiliadora
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#234 - 2014-04-01 22:20:47 UTC
i see a boost to shield sc and a big nerf to nyx (less to aeon)


positives things
- now sc's can do something against 2-3 hictors in lowsec
- less drones on grid --.> less lag

negatives

nyx is gonna be one of the worst sc's (7k dps in full tank fitted its not what you say good
compared with 8600+ dps of shield sc's)

aeon in full tank fit has **** dps (5600) but hte extra low slot + the resist bonus make it reliable with 2 dda'a in fit
(better than nyx but again worst than shield sc's)

my proposal make nyx bonus 10% than 5% (more fair) - total dps will be 8400 and if someone want to be paper tank
let him have a greater dps

but give it the chance to be in balance in fights with other 3 sc's
BeanBagKing
The Order of Atlas
#235 - 2014-04-01 22:22:37 UTC
Drones From Different Empires
I think you have some flaws in your assumptions about drones of different empires. If you have the data availible, I would encourage you not only go look at the number of shots fired in PvP by combat drones, but which drones fired those shots. I would be willing to bet that you would see two drones come out on top. Hammerhead II's and Warrior II's.

The reason behind this is that when choosing a small drone, you want something that will be fast enough to chase down frigates, mainly interceptors, and perhaps destroyers (interdictors). When choosing medium drones, you know you aren't going to send them chasing interceptors. They will mainly be doing damage to other cruisers, battlecruisers, and battleships. You want high damage over speed.

From this point of view, your balancing isn't going to affect the choice of drones for... well, anyone that I can see. Players are either going to choice high damage medium drones or fast light drones. There might be a smattering of fast medium and dps light in there, but we're still focused on Gallente and Minmatar drones.

The balance pass might improve the Amarr and Caldari versions a bit, but it doesn't remove or change the underlying reasons why we don't use those drones. If you come back 6 months after this patch, I'm willing to bet that graph looks more or less the same. As an additional note, it's not going to change for PvE. Since most NPC's weakest, or second weakest resist is kinetic, Gallente drones do more damage to all NPC except one or two factions. I did the math a while ago, even when another damage type is the weakest resist, you do more damage by just powering through to the second resist with higher damage drones.

Balance for drone skills
Saying that the Drone Interfacing skill "result is that drones have earned a reputation as a weapon system that is not suitable for new players." is downright false. I've never, ever seen players tell new players that they shouldn't bother with drones or that they somehow aren't suitable. The recommendation is always that if they can, use them. Now, for a midrange player not to have this skill, people might advise them to train it up, but I'm speaking of a player that is beginning to fly HAC's (Ishtar) battleships (Domi), or looking at their first carrier. Not new players.

I can still see how the skill might be overpowered, but I wanted to address this point. Drones are in no way "not suitable for new players"

Other things
I saw questions about drone behavior brought up in the first few questions of this thread. I've seen other people on reddit bring up the issues when talking about sentry volley. The fact that drones often misbehave; the mwd, orbit, mwd, orbit cycle; the fact that sentries don't fire at the same time, fail to fire at all, move slightly causing them to drift into forcefields, etc.

My point is that while I think these steps are a move in the right direction when looking at drones, although I question some of the assumptions and solutions. I'm more concerned with the underlying code that causes wonkey drone behavior. Will this be addressed with some of these other changes? Is it coming? Or is it something we shouldn't expect to see?
Tarek Raimo
Eleutherian Guard
#236 - 2014-04-01 22:24:57 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

Yeah, whatever.
I always believe everything a goon tells me.
That has worked so well, for so many.


I'm not a goon and I can tell you he's telling the truth about newbies. They're a prized asset in the swarm.


Easily indoctrinated and spoiled by the offers, yep.


The truth, as usual, probably lies somewhere in the middle Blink
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#237 - 2014-04-01 22:28:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
i got the impression that sentries were going to get a 10% damage buff from the T2 racial drone skills..

it is odd that sentries can do comparable dps as heavies .. in some cases more atm...

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Methonash Qorranto
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#238 - 2014-04-01 22:34:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Methonash Qorranto
As a more elaborate follow-up [of sorts] to previous posts discussing the change to sentries, I'd like to point to a spreadsheet screenshot I took after doing a little number-crunching with the dev blog spreadsheet this afternoon. In brief:

Currently, going from Praetor2's to Curator2's yields ~7% more DPS. After the patch, it will be reduced by 4.8%. A significant loss.

Currently, going from Wasp2's to Warden2's loses 21.6% DPS. After the patch, it will be reduced by 22.2%. A minor, probably negligible difference. This seems okay.

Currently, going from Ogre2's to Garde2's loses 5.3% DPS. After the patch, it will be reduced by 11.46%. A significant loss.

Currently, going from Berserker2's to Bouncer2's yields ~2% more DPS. After the patch, it will be reduced by 3.85%. A minor loss.


Currently, going from heavies to sentries yields an average DPS loss of 4.48%.

After the patch, going from heavies to sentries yields an average DPS loss of 10.57%.

This is a [very] significant change--in effect, it is like strapping a NEGATIVE 6 damage implant to your sentry drone loadout in comparison to what current sentry drone users are working with.


Once again:

Please consider re-adding the tech2 damage bonus to sentries--albeit at a lower factor boost. This is what we obtain if the tech2 sentry damage bonus is 7%.

And the average percent-change is virtually the same! That looks pretty good.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#239 - 2014-04-01 22:40:16 UTC
Methonash Qorranto wrote:
Currently, going from sentries to heavies yields an average DPS loss of 4.48%.
After the patch, going from sentries to heavies yields an average DPS loss of 10.57%.

This is a [very] significant change--in effect, it is like strapping a NEGATIVE 6 damage implant to your sentry drone loadout in comparison to what current sentry drone users are working with.
…on the other hand, sentries have damage rigs and don't have to spend ages flying around the grid before engaging their targets. A bit less damage seems like a fair trade-off for those advantages.
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#240 - 2014-04-01 22:55:39 UTC
Holy Dronegasms, Batman!