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Dev Blog: Giving Drones an Assist

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Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#61 - 2014-04-01 18:22:00 UTC
penifSMASH wrote:
What racial drone spec skill will affect Shadow bombers?

none: they are t1

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#62 - 2014-04-01 18:22:04 UTC
Jeinvay Kunsu wrote:
Right then, i read the blog, and was nodding in approval.....until i reached the bottom. I've been training for SCs for a while now, and was really looking forward to crapping fighters all over the place one day. Now it looks like that training is teeny bit of a waste.


WHY would you reduce the super-carrier drone amounts from 20 to 10, when the carriers, which are a hull class BELOW supers, can field 15? I wouldn't be so baffled by the supercarrier drone deployment nerf if this made any sense. The word 'SUPER' in super carrier implies that it is superior to its predecessor.


I could just be overreacting, but it would make more sense to me if the carriers could field less fighters than the supercarriers could by default.


Fit your SC with drone control units and you too can field 15.
Joshua Foiritain
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#63 - 2014-04-01 18:22:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Joshua Foiritain
Maxed skilled Aeon pilot can fit 4x X-type, 1x EANM, 1x DCU and 2x Officer DDA's and have the same tank a Nyx with 4x X-type, 2x EANM, 1x DCU and 0x DDA's.

Officer DDA's offer 28% increase in damage per DDA which means the Aeon will outdps the Nyx by quite a lot. Only reason to fly a Nyx after this is its awesome looks Straight

The Coreli Corporation is recruiting.
leich
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#64 - 2014-04-01 18:22:49 UTC
"Fighter Bombers will need Drone Interfacing 5 and two Tech Two Drone Damage Amplifiers to slightly surpass their current damage rates"

but

"This change allows Supercarriers to deal the same damage as they currently enjoy while causing less server load"

as these two lines contradict each other are they nerfing supers or not

and if they are why would you reduce super damage they need a massive buff please fix.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#65 - 2014-04-01 18:23:59 UTC
Lucas Quaan wrote:
Those lowslot omnis, will they be a passive unscripted equivalent to TEs?

Yes, they will work in exactly the same way as TEs.

penifSMASH wrote:
What racial drone spec skill will affect Shadow bombers?

Shadows (like all fighters and fighter bombers) are T1, and the racial drone spec skills only affect T2 drones.

Aineko Macx wrote:
So will Omnis also affect Fighters and FiBos now?

Fighters, yes.
Fighter Bombers, no since FiBos use a modified missile formula instead of tracking and optimal range attributes.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#66 - 2014-04-01 18:24:43 UTC
leich wrote:
"Fighter Bombers will need Drone Interfacing 5 and two Tech Two Drone Damage Amplifiers to slightly surpass their current damage rates"

but

"This change allows Supercarriers to deal the same damage as they currently enjoy while causing less server load"

as these two lines contradict each other are they nerfing supers or not

and if they are why would you reduce super damage they need a massive buff please fix.


We expect that Supercarrier pilots will make use of Drone Damage Amplifiers as they see fit.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
iskflakes
#67 - 2014-04-01 18:25:30 UTC  |  Edited by: iskflakes
So, 5 DCU, 15 fighters, 4 DDA, 2 tracking mods on a shield nyx makes a subcap killing machine.

Edit: With capital drone speed rigs

Edit 2: Good luck tackling this in lowsec with less than 3 HICs

-
Degalo
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2014-04-01 18:25:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Degalo
leich wrote:
"Fighter Bombers will need Drone Interfacing 5 and two Tech Two Drone Damage Amplifiers to slightly surpass their current damage rates"

but

"This change allows Supercarriers to deal the same damage as they currently enjoy while causing less server load"

as these two lines contradict each other are they nerfing supers or not

and if they are why would you reduce super damage they need a massive buff please fix.




This.

The way you propose actually nerfs non-nyx supercarrier damage by 30% from current levels - assuming max skills and no damage mods.

That needs to be fixed. Reduction in number of FBs - fine, but there is no reason to nerf them further into oblivion by reducing their damage by 30% at the same time.

Fix it.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#69 - 2014-04-01 18:26:33 UTC
Is the massive bonus for DCUs on supercarriers intended? I think it makes sense, just wondering if it's intentional or liable to be changed.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Degalo
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#70 - 2014-04-01 18:26:41 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
leich wrote:
"Fighter Bombers will need Drone Interfacing 5 and two Tech Two Drone Damage Amplifiers to slightly surpass their current damage rates"

but

"This change allows Supercarriers to deal the same damage as they currently enjoy while causing less server load"

as these two lines contradict each other are they nerfing supers or not

and if they are why would you reduce super damage they need a massive buff please fix.


We expect that Supercarrier pilots will make use of Drone Damage Amplifiers as they see fit.



How about you actually do what the first part says and keep the damage current, instead of further crippling supercarriers?
Womyn Power
Broski Bad End
#71 - 2014-04-01 18:27:05 UTC
fozzie why is the sig resolution on heavies 125m instead of 400m like all other large weapon systems?
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#72 - 2014-04-01 18:27:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Weaselior wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Supercarriers are getting a nerf. They need to use 2 lows for DDA2's to maintain their current damage level. That means Aeons and Nyx's either have significantly reduced damage (-40%) or must sacrifice a HUGE amount of tank (-2 Hardeners) to maintain their current damage output.

That's one hell of a ******* nerf!

on the other hand, it's no longer trivial to defang them


Don't take my post wrong... I fully support this change, as I think all ships should have to make fitting choices. This puts real fitting choices on the super pilot:
Heavy tank vs Heavy Damage (for armor supers at least).

I more disagree they're getting a nerf. I think in practice the two changes combine to buff supercarriers. Sure, nyx/aeon paper dps goes down if they're fitting full tank, but in practice they'd just get their fbs bombed away anytime they were in a fight they'd fit for tank. So the net benefit is they get more real DPS in a slugfight, and more dps in a gank.


Perhaps you are correct. Having the drone support skills applied to Fighters and Fighter Bombers will have a big impact on their applied DPS. And the ability to use mods to alter fighterbombers will have a big impact as pilots tweak their fit for the task at hand.

*edit*

Since fighter bombers don't utilize optimal range or tracking, I don't see how the support skills (or omni's) will benefit supers. This is a straight nerf unless I'm missing something! Is it because the tank of Fighterbombers is significantly increasing, improving their staying power?
virm pasuul
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#73 - 2014-04-01 18:28:12 UTC
The Skill Drone Interfacing as well as giving a damage increase also gives a drone mining yield bonus of 20% per level.

Will this be changing? If you just change the percentages I guess so. Otherwise you will need to adjust mining drone yield to compensate just like you are doing for damage.
Zifrian
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2014-04-01 18:28:34 UTC
Looks really good. Appreciate the focus!

Especially on integrated and augmented drones!

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Joshua Foiritain
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#75 - 2014-04-01 18:29:12 UTC
Fozzie any chance we can get some tweaks to the Nyx/Aeon to rebalance this issue;
Joshua Foiritain wrote:
Maxed skilled Aeon pilot can fit 4x X-type, 1x EANM, 1x DCU and 2x Officer DDA's and have the same tank a Nyx with 4x X-type, 2x EANM, 1x DCU and 0x DDA's.

Officer DDA's offer 28% increase in damage per DDA which means the Aeon will outdps the Nyx by quite a lot. Only reason to fly a Nyx after this is its awesome looks Straight

The Coreli Corporation is recruiting.
Draconus Lofwyr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2014-04-01 18:29:14 UTC
how will this affect the use of the Drone Control Unit, with the volume changes. or even the DPS potential. this would be a huge buff to the DCU's but nerf the versatility of supers to carry any spares or fighters for versatility, as well as making refitting that much more of a pain in the arse. with these changes, is there any point in preventing supercarriers from docking anymore?
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#77 - 2014-04-01 18:29:38 UTC
Well and good I suppose. I can see where this could lay the groundwork for gettijg drones the attention they need, and certainly addresses many of the PvP shortcomings.

How about PvE? Drones still need some balance there. They get eaten constantly by the new hungry ai, with few to no tools to make the usable on a consistant basis as a primary weapon. Either significant upgrades to drone survivability are needed, or some sort of reliable system for managing npc aggro. I suppose making all drones radically cheaper so they are more in line with the cost of ammo would work too.
The Warfish
Goats Unlimited
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#78 - 2014-04-01 18:31:49 UTC
I appreciate the thought CCP, but:

So, I am an RP *** and Aethetics *** who loves Amarr Drones.

Tell me....

...in what circumstances would it be worth it losing speed (vs. Minny Drones) or Damage (vs. Gallente Drones) to utilize the Amarr Drones after the fix?

Cause I'm still not seeing them as all that useful.

Drones have two jobs in EVE and two only: Kill Tackler Frigates (speed/tracking is king, use Minny Drones) and pure DPS (Damage Bonus is king, use Gallente Drones).

Why would I slow my anti-fast-**** drones down? Why would I lower my damage when damage is what counts?

/shrug, outside RP reasons, I don't see many switching to Amarr/Caldari drones tbqh, especially since most drone users and vets probably have Gall and Minn Drone spec to at least 4 if not 5, and Amarr/Caldari Spec not even trained.

A better idea would probably have been to make Gallente and Amarr equal all down the line (big tough slow DPS) and Caldari/Minny Drones equal (fast, accurate).

Then the choice comes down to damge type and purpose, with EM/Therm DPS and Kin/Explo Speed options.
leich
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#79 - 2014-04-01 18:32:56 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
leich wrote:
"Fighter Bombers will need Drone Interfacing 5 and two Tech Two Drone Damage Amplifiers to slightly surpass their current damage rates"

but

"This change allows Supercarriers to deal the same damage as they currently enjoy while causing less server load"

as these two lines contradict each other are they nerfing supers or not

and if they are why would you reduce super damage they need a massive buff please fix.


We expect that Supercarrier pilots will make use of Drone Damage Amplifiers as they see fit.


well that was a politician's answer if ever i saw one.

why do armor supers require a damage reduction?
Edmark I
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#80 - 2014-04-01 18:33:06 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Grarr Dexx wrote:
So how about giving drone assist back to pirates in lowsec?


As I feel bad for the residents of lowsec, I'll have you know that I'm not only lobbying for lowsec assist to be fixed but also for the cap to be removed in lowsec only. If I'm successful, you, too, will be able to experience the pinnacle of elite pvp.


ishtar gangs?