Wormholes

This is a good change though it's only step one. There has been a lot of environmental damage done by K-Space "improvements" to the habitat of W-Space and more changes need to go in AT THE SAME TIME AS THIS to repair whats happened.

What this thread needs is a history lesson on the changes made to w-space over the years.

Originally all signatures had to be probed, no green sigs for us to warp to straight away. Wormhole K162 signatures appeared when the far side wormhole had warp initiated upon it. You protected yourself by throwing out either core or deep space probes across your whole system, ding the button once and ignore everything. You roll the wormhole (deliberately pushing large mass through it to collapse it) to guarantee that it hasn't been opened by someone and no one will sneak up on you through it. The prober keeps scanning for new sigs, the rest of the fleet dscans for login traps. You get something on either you quickly remove any sleepers keeping you in the site and you head home. Overall pretty safe. There are multiple chances for the defender to discover the threat and leave.

An attacker has to get into system, push off the WH, drop scan probes somewhere not seen (not always possible), get a 100% (ideally in one sweep), yank the probes, create a perch (you can't warp in close straight off unless your ship can take them due to other stuff being around that'll decloak you and scare the target off), drop in next to the defenders and then call in the fleet. All this while hoping that none of the countermeasures listed above got tripped.

It all meant that if you lost your fleet while doing sites, it was your own fault, you wen't doing something right. It took a lot of luck and real skill on the part of the attackers to get a kill.

We then gained the green sigs, this put all the standard anomalies into always 100% anomalies. This was a good change and my bookmark folder thanks you. This did mean that defenders lost a layer of protection, dscan picking up scan probes, but there were other countermeasures so no big deal. The super vulnerable, hackers, miners gas harvesters, were still protected by their sites still needing to be probed.

Then Ore sites became 100%ers too. This pretty much killed off w-space mining. Tracking down a fleet moving among a dozen or more sleeper sites is one thing, tracking down a barge sitting in among 1-3 ore sites is another. If your scan coverage (which you need to reset every hour or so) didn't pick up the new sig, you were gone inside a couple of minutes. Mining barges have zero defence vs an attacker, even the more EHP ones now just die a bit slower. ECM won't save you and your flight of lights isn't going to kill anything before you drop.

Finally we got the Discovery Scanner. No more need to have cover probes out, CCP has you covered instead. Not that the discovery scanner updates at easily identifiable times, though never fear you can force an update by clicking anything in it. If you do get into the system before everyone runs off due to the bright green diamond on their screen, the skill it takes to find people is even less. You used to have to at least BM the site then align to it to get an idea of which site it was with a narrow dscan, now, those sites are already displayed. Nice an easy.

If you're going to change this, you NEED to make Ore sites back to scannable for W-Space. W-Space just got a boost due to the refinery changes, give them the slight safety to actually use it.
Don't start the no scan timer on the K162 until someone jumps the WH and make the timer around the 30-60s mark, that's plenty of head start for hunters. Without that we'll loose most of the time just warping to the WH.
Give the Discovery Scanner UI a timer to show when t updates or make it update every server tick. It feels like it's broken at the moment.
And while you're in there, change the polarisation timer to be something based off the ship hull instead of a flat time for everybody. I'd personally like to see it be based off sensor strength, would give ECCM an additional use.

And finally, thanks for actually looking at W-Space... COme chat in the Wormholes section once in a while

Dont touch WH space it's the only space that is working. don't punish vigilant players to get ganked with no incentive to fight. this change will only buff large groups in WH space. how about making an in game WH mapping tool to increase the flow of pilots using WHs.

In the ten years I have been playing this game that has not been CCP's MO in around eight.

-1

ITT: People who think this is a good idea don't live in W-Space....

or else are in corps which do a lot of ganking siterunning fleets.

Perhaps you might try reading what I was replying to, or even what I wrote way back on page 1 of this thread. I don't think lower class holes need more safety, though I do think they should have to at least work to get safety, just like they used to have to before the discovery scanner.

The fact of the matter is that the C5/C6 "dwellers" are what are making you so poor in the first place. I put dwellers in quotes because the farming operations are what I am specifically referring to. Many, many groups are farming C5s (mostly) with a small number of alts and making billions of ISK per week. Their risk is quite limited, and the profits are large enough to allow them to even lose a fleet every month and come out ahead.

Also, you are pants-on-head ******** if you think sub-C5 space is a ghost town. I'd say that probably 75% of C2s are occupied, and it is closer to 95% of ones with a static highsec. Sure, C4s are pretty empty, but finding an un-occupied C2 or C1 is pretty rare.

BTW, there is already a glitch that causes a delay in the scanner overlay and it very much acts as the bookmark delay in corporation bookmarks, sometimes they update instantly and sometimes it takes 5 minutes...

Why not disable the sensor overlay all together in W-space? Delaying the sig from showing up even to active scanners looking for new sigs seems to favor the attacking side too heavily. That would give the attacking side more then enough time blob or counter with ECM anything the defending side had before they even knew there was a fight on their hands. I think this change would discourage smaller corps from entering W-space at all. We came to WH space for the challenge. I think it would take much of the pride and feeling of accomplishment from kills if you know the defenders are, from the get go, already at such a disadvantage.

I'm a full time WH purist living in a C5 in a small but growing alliance.
I'd support a delay to sig visibility on the scanner under two conditions:

1) Active signature continue to provide real-time intel for the vigilant. Like the old days.

2) Ore sites are made signatures instead of anomalies. Like the old days.

I'll go so far as to predict a solution like I've outlined here will be what is implemented. I support these views because I don't want halftime nullsec outfits running skeleton crews deflating the price of my jam. See exhibit A, the recent deflation of the nanoribbon. C5s aren't your cash cow, buddy.

We actually use our ore sites because going to k-space for anything other than attacking nullseccers or selling blue tags is bad luck. Like stepping on the cracks on the sidewalk, break your mother's back. In return we get ore, ridicule, and a lossboard so littered with retrievers it would make even the worst nullsec industrial corp blush. Ore sites in WH are much less safe than mining in remote parts of null. Some may say it is even as dangerous as highsec mining these days.