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No, he's right. The vast majority of T2 materials pass through Jita, or another highsec market hub.

"Cheaper" is kind of a counterintuitive way to put it, but it's still right. Right now, in 0.0, you can't refine and build in the same station, unlike lowsec and highsec. Thus, JFing or freightering minerals is ALWAYS required. This increases the amount of time building takes, and increases costs in the form of Jump Freighter fuel.

Since this jump freighter work is required in either case, why not just jump in assembled hulls from Empire, where slots are unlimited, refines are equivalent, and the number of people willing to grunt out ships for a pittance of margin far more prevalent? The hulls might cost a little more, but the reduction in effort is immense. We can run our entire Ship Replacement Program with the scant half-dozen number of people in our Finance directorate, rather than requiring an entire industrial wing and the software and logistics needed to manage entire production chains.

Think of highsec as Foxconn, and conquerable nullsec as Apple. It is much more efficient for us to let you guys build everything, and provide the materials you need, rather than try to grunt out our own vertical where costs are higher and labor scarcer.

The proposed changes will help shift that equation back in our favor, by both eliminating time-consuming module compression and by providing a legitimate benefit for production in the far-flung reaches of space.

Why is that not changed then? What is the point of this station role splitting anyways? PVP driver, because people need to move stuff around? That's working very well right now, with JF and Rorqus jumping the stuff around. Why not remove this split roles, at least for the industrial stuff.

It still makes sense to have an Administrative Outpost because administration always requires extra space, and the Science Outpost (while absolutely with the docking and so on) makes sense because Research and Invention are, at least in theory, dangerous and can lead to undesirable mishaps. But Refining/Reprocessing and Manufacturing should be available in 1 Station.



So you don't want to be Foxconn but you want to be Foxconn. Do I understand that correctly?

Ask CCP. They're the ones who put a tiny number of slots in the Minmatar Outpost, not us. It's just the nature of the game.


It has nothing to do with what we want; merely how things are.

BREAKING EVEN ON POS REFINERIES: THE MATH

The pos refinery offers a 52% base efficiency, which results in a 4% increase in yield over the 50% stations currently present. We'll assume max skills for the refiner, as to keep things as even as possible.

A caldari pos costs 4,224,000 isk to run for a day. Therefore, we can calculate the break-even point for refining at a pos vs. the cost with the following equation:

4224000 = ore value * 0.04

Solving the equation gives us:

105,600,000 = ore value

So, we have to mine that much ore per day to break even. Let's look at ore prices today. Because I'm lazy, I'll use Eve Isk Per Hour to do this. I got http://i.imgur.com/5lehIBl.gif at all fives.

Dividing 105.6m by 16.337m gives us 6.46 manhours of mining scordite per day, just to break even. That's 193.91 manhours a month to cover the cost of your pos.

A single pos refinery can easily keep up with this amount of ore, however, requiring only 110 seconds of processing, so there's that.

126 million in fuel is less than the cost of the 4% refining implant, which is currently going for 250 million.


Not to mention if we count the PLEX worth to train almost a years worth of refining skills to max refining the PoS starts to look like a steal. Infact it would take almost 5 years to break even on that training time to make a the skills for refining better than what you can do by default at a small PoS. Thats just absurd I think.

Time to train refining skills to perfect = Almost a year of lost ability to train other skills.
one year of plex = 7.4 TRILLION isk total opportunity cost to train the skills
one year of pos fuel = 1.5 BILLION isk a year to not have worry about skilling up refining


Break even = 4.9 YEARS for skills to be better than simply paying for the PoS fuel.

no need to mine it yourself. buy the ore from the market and refine it. voila you got your fuel covered and then some more. remember you have a 4% advantage over a fully skilled char with a 250 mil implant in his head, just sitting in your POS, and having a 3 or 4 jumps buy order...

Uh, one year of plex is not 7.4 trillion isk.

Also, you are comparing a one-time cost of an implant to a recurring tower fuel cost.

Also, in order to mine at all, you have to keep your account subscribed, so the PLEX cost of maintaining an account is not exactly a relevant cost to factor in.

Yeah, I agree; selling the ore is a much better way to do things. People will access to nullsec refineries and enough wherewithal will put up competitive buys for this ore and use their superior facilities to refine the ore. Both the miner and the refiner win.

the issue is that an untrained char should not be able to refine at the same rate as a trained one at a POS

and noone pointed that you need standing with faction (happy grinding)for pos in high sec or standing with npc corporation everywhere because of tax