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Dev Blog: Reprocess all the things!

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Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1061 - 2014-03-21 21:14:37 UTC
There's nothing mystical or special about nullsec game mechanics that somehow allow nullsec people to enjoy better security. Bubbles don't even do this due to the prevalence of nullified T3 cruisers with cynos and interceptors. Every tool we have in nullsec is available in highsec, plus you have CONCORD limiting the engagement window to several seconds, no ability to use cynos to circumvent intel, and you can always dock no matter where you go. You have to be deliberately obtuse to think that highsec is less safe than nullsec.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1062 - 2014-03-21 21:15:59 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
If you have 20 people in local then your interceptor friend isn't going to readily combat you unless he has 20 friends sitting on the other side of a gate, or on the ass end of a cyno. Which you should be able to have intel on, and if you don't you need better friends.

Justifying nerfs based on cowardice and unwillingness for a group of people to exploit what they have is pathetic.

sounds like you just hit upon yet another inherent protection in highsec: no cynos

man, you keep digging yourself in a deeper and deeper hole with the crazy

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1063 - 2014-03-21 21:16:45 UTC
Querns wrote:
You have to be deliberately obtuse to think that highsec is less safe than nullsec.

ding ding ding

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1064 - 2014-03-21 21:17:37 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:


Heh an interceptor ganking a plexer/ratter or miner.

Just tank your Mack brah and put drones on him. No Corp fits in GSF for tanking mining ships I guess?

and awoxer warp in? You definitely need better friends if you fear for being awoxed.


Buffer tanks dont work outside of high sec. With no concord they have all the time in the world to chew through it.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1065 - 2014-03-21 21:18:06 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:

Heh an interceptor ganking a plexer/ratter or miner.

Just tank your Mack brah and put drones on him. No Corp fits in GSF for tanking mining ships I guess?

https://zkillboard.com/detail/37582094/ A solo interceptor killing a ratter.

Drones are easily killable by interceptors. Light missiles tear them to shreds, and the speeds at which an interceptor orbits reduces the damage from light drones to well within the abilities of a single ancillary armor rep to overcome.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Mario Putzo
#1066 - 2014-03-21 21:18:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Querns wrote:
There's nothing mystical or special about nullsec game mechanics that somehow allow nullsec people to enjoy better security. Bubbles don't even do this due to the prevalence of nullified T3 cruisers with cynos and interceptors. Every tool we have in nullsec is available in highsec, plus you have CONCORD limiting the engagement window to several seconds, no ability to use cynos to circumvent intel, and you can always dock no matter where you go. You have to be deliberately obtuse to think that highsec is less safe than nullsec.


Oh interceptor is out but now the T3 is in? hue hue hue. Come on guy, keep grasping.

You don't mine because you choose not to, not because you can't. You make less money plexing because you choose to not because you can't make more. There is no mechanics that put NS at a disadvantage pound for pound everything in NS is better isk wise, and more profitable market wise.

Choosing not to exploit that is based on your own unwillingness not because of lopsided mechanics. Perhaps if 90% of your systems weren't uninhabited you would see different results, but I am sure its hard when the vast majority of your alliance and coalition mates only log in/show up for timers and jabber pings.

Not a problem with the game, problem with the players.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1067 - 2014-03-21 21:18:54 UTC
i appreciate that mario putzo is here to demonstrate the type of thinking about the game you need to oppose this change

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1068 - 2014-03-21 21:19:46 UTC
It took me 20 seconds to locate a single instance of a solo interceptor killing a ratter, by the way.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Mario Putzo
#1069 - 2014-03-21 21:20:44 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
i appreciate that mario putzo is here to demonstrate the type of thinking about the game you need to oppose this change

Well maybe if coward coalition spent more time running mining opps and not forum CTA's then there wouldn't need to be a change.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1070 - 2014-03-21 21:21:07 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Querns wrote:
There's nothing mystical or special about nullsec game mechanics that somehow allow nullsec people to enjoy better security. Bubbles don't even do this due to the prevalence of nullified T3 cruisers with cynos and interceptors. Every tool we have in nullsec is available in highsec, plus you have CONCORD limiting the engagement window to several seconds, no ability to use cynos to circumvent intel, and you can always dock no matter where you go. You have to be deliberately obtuse to think that highsec is less safe than nullsec.


Oh interceptor is out but now the T3 is in? hue hue hue. Come on guy, keep grasping.

You don't mine because you choose not to, not because you can't. You make less money plexing because you choose to not because you can't make more. There is no mechanics that put NS at a disadvantage pound for pound everything in NS is better isk wise, and more profitable market wise.

Choosing not to exploit that is based on your own unwillingness not because of lopsided mechanics. Perhaps if 90% of your systems weren't uninhabited you would see different results, but I am sure its hard when the vast majority of your alliance and coalition mates only log in/show up for timers and jabber pings.

Not a problem with the game, problem with the players.


If null sec is so good for making isk and as safe as you say why are 80% of bots located in high sec and mostly in caldari space?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1071 - 2014-03-21 21:21:57 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
i appreciate that mario putzo is here to demonstrate the type of thinking about the game you need to oppose this change

Well maybe if coward coalition spent more time running mining opps and not forum CTA's then there wouldn't need to be a change.


We dont run CTAs.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1072 - 2014-03-21 21:23:08 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Querns wrote:
There's nothing mystical or special about nullsec game mechanics that somehow allow nullsec people to enjoy better security. Bubbles don't even do this due to the prevalence of nullified T3 cruisers with cynos and interceptors. Every tool we have in nullsec is available in highsec, plus you have CONCORD limiting the engagement window to several seconds, no ability to use cynos to circumvent intel, and you can always dock no matter where you go. You have to be deliberately obtuse to think that highsec is less safe than nullsec.


Oh interceptor is out but now the T3 is in? hue hue hue. Come on guy, keep grasping.


I specifically mention interceptors in that post.
Quote:

You don't mine because you choose not to, not because you can't. You make less money plexing because you choose to not because you can't make more. There is no mechanics that put NS at a disadvantage pound for pound everything in NS is better isk wise, and more profitable market wise.

Like I've said repeatedly in this thread, there are not enough lowends in nullsec to make use of the nullsec highends. We don't mine because the prices of highends are garbage due to this dearth of lowends, and because even if we did, we'd have hangars of highends just sitting there, unable to be used.
Quote:

Choosing not to exploit that is based on your own unwillingness not because of lopsided mechanics. Perhaps if 90% of your systems weren't uninhabited you would see different results, but I am sure its hard when the vast majority of your alliance and coalition mates only log in/show up for timers and jabber pings.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Deklein#npc24

Looks pretty populated to me!

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1073 - 2014-03-21 21:23:22 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
i appreciate that mario putzo is here to demonstrate the type of thinking about the game you need to oppose this change

Well maybe if coward coalition spent more time running mining opps and not forum CTA's then there wouldn't need to be a change.

maybe if everyone acted stupidly then we would never need to rebalance anything ever

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Mario Putzo
#1074 - 2014-03-21 21:23:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Querns wrote:
It took me 20 seconds to locate a single instance of a solo interceptor killing a ratter, by the way.

was that with 20 people in system or some tard with a half fit ship who got caught being stupid? Go Go T1 Wasps!

Hey guys i just took 32K dmg from an inty and didn't have to call for help once!. LOL.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1075 - 2014-03-21 21:24:10 UTC
it is true, an eve full of mario putzos would not need balancing because nobody would be able to figure out what the best thing was and do that

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Adunh Slavy
#1076 - 2014-03-21 21:24:49 UTC
Ingots ... oh wait, that's a good idea, so never mind.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Mario Putzo
#1077 - 2014-03-21 21:27:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Weaselior wrote:
it is true, an eve full of mario putzos would not need balancing because nobody would be able to figure out what the best thing was and do that


Generally you have to actually do something in order to do it. You know like actually mining asteroids in order to get the minerals. But I know I know bad isk/hr, so lets reduce that isk/hr everywhere else while not increasing it at all in the apparent problem area. Good Fix to a non-existant problem guys!.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#1078 - 2014-03-21 21:27:20 UTC
The only issue for me in all of this is the excessive nerf to module/ship reprocessing, and I think that this is so large because CCP want to get rid of the extra material on BP's. And the admit to that in the dev blog:

Quote:
It limits a game designer’s ability to increase material composition on items when needed, as this would give players free stuff in the process. As an example, we were forced to add Extra Materials to most of the ships that have been through the Tiericide initiative (which by itself, added a lot of confusion for players engaged in Manufacturing).


So the reason they are being nerfed to this heavy degree is simply to remove all this extra material rubbish which was caused by excessive tinkering on manufacturing costs. A more sensible way would be over time adding the extra material bit by bit to the manufacturing costs, but of course that would require effort on the part of CCP. Instead you just shaft a minority group of players, the same way that you shafted ninja miners in NPC 0.0, and you never even responded to them when they raised it as an issue.

So ignoring all these Goons on here, there are a lot of people who do actually reprocess minerals to make ships, especially in NPC 0.0 and all of us just got a massive hit in terms of our industry, I am not going to let this go, this is making it really difficult for us to compete, because my ability to produce will be cut in half, and we will be facing up against people in Sov 0.0 who get even more advantages.



And Baltec, that battleship comparison was the most stupid thing I have yet seen you come out with, a unfitted BS on a gate in null compared to a unfitted BS in Jita on a gate. If it was a bing fitted BS they are likely do die much faster in Jita, you Goons are losing it if you come out with pap like that!

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1079 - 2014-03-21 21:27:41 UTC
Its a shame the Rorquals can only figuratively run on tears because goddamn do we have a geyser here

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#1080 - 2014-03-21 21:29:23 UTC
Dramaticus wrote:
Its a shame the Rorquals can only figuratively run on tears because goddamn do we have a geyser here


Archons to you mate

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp