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Dev Blog: Reprocess all the things!

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Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#981 - 2014-03-21 19:47:46 UTC
Mylea Chanlin wrote:

Tell that to the developers

you can't read, and that doesn't mean what you think it means

a minmatar t3 station is 20% better than a highsec 50% station. the math is stupidly easy: minmatar t3 is 60%, highsec is 50%, null has a 20% advantage

you can do out the math of the formulas but you'll find i'm correct

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#982 - 2014-03-21 19:48:28 UTC
Mylea Chanlin wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Mylea Chanlin wrote:

I'm generally ok with reprocessing being better in low/null. But 40% better? That's a bad mechanic. Low and null already have better minerals, better rats, better missions, and PvP T2 salvage. We don't need to make high sec yet another 40% disadvantaged. It's overkill and unnecessary.

It's not 40% better.


Tell that to the developers

EVERYONE REPROCESSES SCRAP METAL AT THE SAME RATE. HIGHSEC, LOWSEC, NPC NULLSEC, CONQUERABLE NULLSEC. EVERYBODY GETS 55%.

This message brought to you by the GBS Logistics and Fives Support's Reading Comprehension Department.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#983 - 2014-03-21 19:48:47 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:

lvl3 blitzing is irrelevant for lvl4 blitzing. 100m/hr is still well under what you can get from burning and salvaging the blockade or gone berserk. which was my point from the beginning.


It is the exact same process. You will not be earning 100 mil/hr from the blocade because there is not 100 mil in there.

fortunately, you can finish it up to three times per hour.

edit: my personal best time for the blockade is 18:54 undock to dock. i dimly remember hearing of sub 18m times. if you need an hour to complete it, you are doing it terribly wrong.


You do not get back to back blocades, missions are randomised so no, what you are suggesting cannot happen.


Amusingly, the 0.0 version of blockade is much more lucrative if you don't blitz because CONCORD cloaks sell for 3/4 of a bill

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#984 - 2014-03-21 19:50:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Weaselior
here is the actual table for comparing highsec to nullsec, in three different formats so you can pick whichever you choose:

http://i.imgur.com/jfbpBm7.png

reminder: this is only for ore. everything scrapmetal is 50% base, 55% with skills, period (except 30% highsec refineries)

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#985 - 2014-03-21 19:51:05 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:

lvl3 blitzing is irrelevant for lvl4 blitzing. 100m/hr is still well under what you can get from burning and salvaging the blockade or gone berserk. which was my point from the beginning.


It is the exact same process. You will not be earning 100 mil/hr from the blocade because there is not 100 mil in there.

fortunately, you can finish it up to three times per hour.

edit: my personal best time for the blockade is 18:54 undock to dock. i dimly remember hearing of sub 18m times. if you need an hour to complete it, you are doing it terribly wrong.


You do not get back to back blocades, missions are randomised so no, what you are suggesting cannot happen.

1. this does nothing to disprove my point, even if you run one blockade, its isk per HOUR is still well over 100m
2. you can get back to back blockades naturally or by helping out a little (faction standings)
3. you do not get an average 100m/hour from blitzing just any mission either, albeit you also don't have to take care of selling the salvage.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Mylea Chanlin
Royal Damsels in Distress
#986 - 2014-03-21 19:51:09 UTC
Querns wrote:
Mylea Chanlin wrote:
Querns wrote:

The light nerf to reprocessing amounts from space garbage wasn't the stated focus of the nerf. Scrap metal refines were nerfed to kick module compression in the ass, a technique used by people living in all securities of system to compress minerals for transport.

The proposed maximum highsec reprocessing yield for ore and ice is congruent with today's maximum reprocessing yield. Lowsec and nullsec were simply given more efficient methods by which to reprocess.


Light nerf?! Did you even read the article. In high sec, module reprocessing returns drop 30-40% at any skill level. That's not a light nerf. That's a heavy kick in the groin nerf.

I'm generally ok with reprocessing being better in low/null. But 40% better? That's a bad mechanic. Low and null already have better minerals, better rats, better missions, and PvP T2 salvage. We don't need to make high sec yet another 40% disadvantaged. It's overkill and unnecessary.

Relatively speaking, sure; 40% is a large amount. But, compared to the small absolute value that it's modifying, it's a rounding error. Space garbage simply isn't valuable enough to warrant being a sacred cow on this matter. Alchemy is being adjusted to be unaffected, and the other use case for scrap metal reprocessing (425mm railguns) is specifically being targeted for the nerf.


If you want to specifically target 425mm railguns, target them by modifying the minerals you get out of them. A blanket nerf across all salvage is overkill and unnecessary.

I spent three months of Eve as a dedicated salvager in a salvaging corp, Pro Synergy. Made a career out of it. One of the few careers without any direct incentive or oversight from CCP. I know how much gets reprocessed, and it's a lot. And it's thankless. And it's boring. And now it's a lot worse.

My position is the same: if it needs rebalancing, fine, but spot-fix the problem items, and reduce the overall nerf. That's the right thing to do.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#987 - 2014-03-21 19:52:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Weaselior
no change should affect even the most trivial, stupid of professions in any way, apparently

people can't come up with new ways to make money, they're too set in their ways and can't afford job retraining :ohdear:

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Mario Putzo
#988 - 2014-03-21 19:53:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Querns wrote:

Man, you sure are bouncing around a lot. Do you have a personal stake in all of these disparate pies you keep bringing up, or are you simply trying to manufacture the one angle that will turn the tables on the conversation forever?

Nevertheless:

Lowsec has a massive, massive money maker in FW. If you want to live in lowsec, you've got the tools to keep yourself funded. Additionally, you can put up a pos anywhere in lowsec and refine better than highsec.


and if I don't want to do FW to generate isk?

should I move to HS where I can't PVP? or should I move to NS where I participate in blob war and call it pvp?
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#989 - 2014-03-21 19:53:42 UTC
also why are people going to the mat for what they admit is a thankless boring profession

sounds like the ideal profession to eliminate as a byproduct of changes

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#990 - 2014-03-21 19:54:39 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:

and if I don't want to do FW to generate isk?


that sounds like your problem, not an imbalance

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#991 - 2014-03-21 19:55:38 UTC
Mylea Chanlin wrote:
If you want to specifically target 425mm railguns, target them by modifying the minerals you get out of them. A blanket nerf across all salvage is overkill and unnecessary.

I spent three months of Eve as a dedicated salvager in a salvaging corp, Pro Synergy. Made a career out of it. One of the few careers without any direct incentive or oversight from CCP. I know how much gets reprocessed, and it's a lot. And it's thankless. And it's boring. And now it's a lot worse.

My position is the same: if it needs rebalancing, fine, but spot-fix the problem items, and reduce the overall nerf. That's the right thing to do.


as i have posted some 20 pages ago, you could keep the profits of pro synergy healthy by tinkering with the value of salvage (such as refurbishing T1 into T2 salvage).

I should buy an Ishtar.
Mario Putzo
#992 - 2014-03-21 19:56:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Weaselior wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:

and if I don't want to do FW to generate isk?


that sounds like your problem, not an imbalance


I didn't say there was an imbalance. I said it is an arbitrary nerf that reduces an aspect of lowsec living, in order to benefit NS mineral procurement. I don't care if NS is 20% more effective than HS in refining ore. I want a valid reason as to why mission loot is deserving of a 30% nerf. (which impacts HS/LS/NS equally.)

It seems like collateral damage for no reason.
Mylea Chanlin
Royal Damsels in Distress
#993 - 2014-03-21 19:58:10 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
here is the actual table for comparing highsec to nullsec, in three different formats so you can pick whichever you choose:

http://i.imgur.com/jfbpBm7.png

reminder: this is only for ore. everything scrapmetal is 50% base, 55% with skills, period (except 30% highsec refineries)


Thank you for confirming my very point.

The 30% stations are in high sec. The 50-55% corresponds to low and null outposts. And guess what? It's 30-40%. Ah,if you want to get nitpicky, its high-20s to high 30s, but who cares? It's too much.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#994 - 2014-03-21 19:58:31 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:

1. this does nothing to disprove my point, even if you run one blockade, its isk per HOUR is still well over 100m
2. you can get back to back blockades naturally or by helping out a little (faction standings)
3. you do not get an average 100m/hour from blitzing just any mission either, albeit you also don't have to take care of selling the salvage.


1. The mechanics of missions making it impossible to do what youjust suggested does blow a very wide hole in what you just said.

2. You cannot do back to back blocades for hours, you stand a small chance of getting two, a very very rare chance of three and any higher than that is less likely to happen than officer spawns.

3. You seem to be thinking that blitzing means doing one mission over and over. You are wrong, Blitzing is the process of finishing all missions as quickly as possible.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#995 - 2014-03-21 20:00:56 UTC
Mylea Chanlin wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
here is the actual table for comparing highsec to nullsec, in three different formats so you can pick whichever you choose:

http://i.imgur.com/jfbpBm7.png

reminder: this is only for ore. everything scrapmetal is 50% base, 55% with skills, period (except 30% highsec refineries)


Thank you for confirming my very point.

The 30% stations are in high sec. The 50-55% corresponds to low and null outposts. And guess what? It's 30-40%. Ah,if you want to get nitpicky, its high-20s to high 30s, but who cares? It's too much.

highsec has 50% refineries you idiot

jita 4-4, a station you may have heard of, is 50%

highsec happens to have 30% ones but nobody uses them because 50%s exist usually in the same system

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#996 - 2014-03-21 20:02:25 UTC
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Jita

every single jita station is a 50% refinery

how dumb do you have to be to opine in a thread on reprocessing without even knowing the base highsec refine rate

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#997 - 2014-03-21 20:02:31 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:

1. this does nothing to disprove my point, even if you run one blockade, its isk per HOUR is still well over 100m
2. you can get back to back blockades naturally or by helping out a little (faction standings)
3. you do not get an average 100m/hour from blitzing just any mission either, albeit you also don't have to take care of selling the salvage.


1. The mechanics of missions making it impossible to do what youjust suggested does blow a very wide hole in what you just said.

2. You cannot do back to back blocades for hours, you stand a small chance of getting two, a very very rare chance of three and any higher than that is less likely to happen than officer spawns.

3. You seem to be thinking that blitzing means doing one mission over and over. You are wrong, Blitzing is the process of finishing all missions as quickly as possible.

1. you do not have to run missions for an hour do calculate an isk/hour for a mission. go back and read my original point.
2. irrelevant, as i never claimed you could
3. you seem to think that blitzing every mission is always better than burning and salvaging it, which is not the case, as i stated some pages ago.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Mylea Chanlin
Royal Damsels in Distress
#998 - 2014-03-21 20:03:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Mylea Chanlin
Daniel Plain wrote:
Mylea Chanlin wrote:
If you want to specifically target 425mm railguns, target them by modifying the minerals you get out of them. A blanket nerf across all salvage is overkill and unnecessary.

I spent three months of Eve as a dedicated salvager in a salvaging corp, Pro Synergy. Made a career out of it. One of the few careers without any direct incentive or oversight from CCP. I know how much gets reprocessed, and it's a lot. And it's thankless. And it's boring. And now it's a lot worse.

My position is the same: if it needs rebalancing, fine, but spot-fix the problem items, and reduce the overall nerf. That's the right thing to do.


as i have posted some 20 pages ago, you could keep the profits of pro synergy healthy by tinkering with the value of salvage (such as refurbishing T1 into T2 salvage).


Saying something to the effect of: "It isn't a nerf to your profession because you can do another profession" isn't a valid rebuttal.

This isn't about Pro Synergy anyway. It's about a severe nerf to an entire profession as an unintentional side-effect of efforts to fix something else entirely. Hell, salvaging is presented as a career option in the tutorial missions. Did CCP forget that?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#999 - 2014-03-21 20:05:04 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Daniel Plain wrote:

3. you seem to think that blitzing every mission is always better than burning and salvaging it, which is not the case, as i stated some pages ago.


You mean where you told a lie about making 100 mil/hr in the blocade despite the fact that there in not 100 mil isk in that mission?

As a side note, the blockade can be blitzed in 5 min for between 9k to 10k LP. I can have 4 of these done in your best time to run one and have about 100mil isk worth of LP.
Mario Putzo
#1000 - 2014-03-21 20:05:44 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:

1. this does nothing to disprove my point, even if you run one blockade, its isk per HOUR is still well over 100m
2. you can get back to back blockades naturally or by helping out a little (faction standings)
3. you do not get an average 100m/hour from blitzing just any mission either, albeit you also don't have to take care of selling the salvage.


1. The mechanics of missions making it impossible to do what youjust suggested does blow a very wide hole in what you just said.

2. You cannot do back to back blocades for hours, you stand a small chance of getting two, a very very rare chance of three and any higher than that is less likely to happen than officer spawns.

3. You seem to be thinking that blitzing means doing one mission over and over. You are wrong, Blitzing is the process of finishing all missions as quickly as possible.

1. you do not have to run missions for an hour do calculate an isk/hour for a mission. go back and read my original point.
2. irrelevant, as i never claimed you could
3. you seem to think that blitzing every mission is always better than burning and salvaging it, which is not the case, as i stated some pages ago.


don't worry this is probably why the goonies think Anoms are inferior to level 4 missions.