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I obviously don't have access to all the historical data that CCP does but yes subjectively I would say that the increases in potential isk / hour from mining has been less than the decrease in potential isk / hour from missioning and ratting both percentage wise and absolute amount. If you take out the bonus that the noctis has given to loot and salvage I would say it's even worse. And if you add in the increased price of everything it's much worse.

I'll give you the probability that a decent part of the inflation may be caused by the introduction of what I consider a flawed pay out system that came with incursions. However the point remains that PLEXs are double what they were before hand and that ship cost a significant amount more now than they did before.

Now that we are talking about it I'd be curious to know if mining has even increased at all or maybe decreased when instead of considering isk / hour we talk the actual buying power of an hour's worth of mining. Now I've drifted way off into conjecture but at least you know where I stand.

No I'm just saying that if they don't tackle the bot problem then the professional buff will only benefit the botters and not actual players.

This perspective is coming from an assumption that not only are there a significant number of mining bots in game but that CCP secretly has a love / hate relationship with them as all those bots do still have to pay monthly fees to bot. Neither of these things can I prove. However I was in Scalding Pass when White Noise moved their botting empire in and it was obvious to everyone that something very fishy was going on. I find it hard to believe that if you are CCP and have the ability to roam around in an invisible ship and not show up in local and observe everything as well as have full access to chat logs and game files I have a hard time believing that they couldn't prevent more of this activity if they realy wanted to. It seems there is a financial incentive for them to "put up the good fight" against botting but not actually eradicate it. In business if you can find a profit motive it's most likely happening.

Anyway these are the forums and Devs read these so I'm putting my take out there in hopes it's at least considered.

You have me there. That was a judgement error and a ridiculous conclusion. I thank you for setting me strait.

1. I have a feeling the POS refining arrays don't take skills into account because you don't have a clue how to make that work with the POS code. You continue to build on broken code and end up with solutions like this. Stop doing that: finally fix pos code pls.

2. You are seriously nerfing reprocessing of modules and ships because one day you want to remove the extra materials from blueprints. There is no good reason to make this change now. It's bad timing. Just continue to let the refining skills affect module reprocessing until you are finally ready to make the change. That will already reduce the outcome of module reprocessing by ~38.1% without compensation by adding more materials like you are doing with ores.

so, it mean once you anchor the reprocessing array, it immediately give you 75.3% / 78.1% yield ? no matter what skills level you have ?

I understand all isk comes from the server at some point I'm talking on a transaction by transaction basis. If every transaction that got a player isk came from the server then every transaction in which you spent isk would have to go back to the server. Eve is billed as a player based economy. For that to happen with minimal mudflation you have to maximize the number of income streams that derive from players selling to players and minimize the number of transactions that are a result of the server putting isk into your wallet.

An example would be when wormholes were introduced blue loot was created that if you scooped it up and got it to high sec could be sold to an NPC vendor for isk. This is essentially server generated isk but it's not direct payment like bounties are. The blue loot could be left behind or lost or stolen. Also at the same time sleeper salvage was introduced as well as T3 production and reverse engineering. This was a major income stream that involved selling T3 ships and materials to players for isk. I see that expansion as a decent balance

Fast forward to incursions where it was tons bounty payments which were server generated isk deposited strait into your wallet. absolutely no loot and with no loot almost none of the ships got salvaged. I can't recall for sure but in the beginning I don't recall any LP payouts I think that was added later but I'm stretching my memory there. That was followed by drone poo being removed and replaced by bounty payouts. Both of those I consider examples of a poor balance of server created isk to isk made from selling goods to other players.

Keep in mind that any kind of money has no inherent value. The value of money comes from it's transfer in exchange for something of value. You don't measure an economy by how much money it has but by how much that money is moved around. Yes if in real life you print dollars at a higher rate proportionately or generate more server isk in game then prices will go up but if income streams go up as well then then end result measured in purchasing power of an hour of labor remains unchanged.

You are most certainly correct and while I did not miss that point I did drift off from it. CCP may not be able to fix that mind set but they do control all of the rules of the game and have the ability to incentivise or deincentivise various activities.

I am of the viewpoint that in recent years CCP has increasingly push one type of game play which is the one that gets them out of game headlines and that style is large scale null sec battles that can be translated into insane amounts of real life dollars wasted. Because a thousand smaller scale battles won't get them free advertising.

I've argued here and elsewhere that a better more engaging game play might come from many more smaller engagements. People are smart and if you make the most profitable thing to do in space to attract people to your space this game of spreadsheets we have here will rapidly adjust to strategies that take advantage of that.

If CCP sets a goal of making null sec space more valuable and it achieves that goal then it will make null sec more valuable. That does not mean more people will come to null. If anything it will mean those in null will want to share with as few people as possible. So it will encourage the kind of game play we have now which can be summed up as PEW PEW PEW GTFO of my space or I'll shoot.

However if CCP sets a goal to attract as many people to null as possible and they achieve that goal then null will have a lot of people which means a lot of small scale tussles that lead to a **** ton of little cheap ships getting blown up and lots of PvP fun but no headlines.

i dont even get why people who has never been constructed something in this game making comments here.

It sounds fun to you? Couse more poeple will head to low and null sec. More free kills for ur boards to increase ur efficiency?

Let me tell what will happen;

This sounds like people will need to be more socialized to get more profit from ore reprocessing and manufacturing. U think that ore&and mineral prices will be balanced again after sometime? This will not happen.

This will sounds like it couse:

- ore prices will rise
- people (A) mine it sell it at a hub
- people (B) buy it move it to null
- people (C) refine it
- people (D) move it back to the highsec
- people (A) buy it back and manufacture crap out of it

looks social right?

- people (A) will not be able to sell ore in hubs as much as before. Cosue no one will dare to buy ore in high sec if they are able to mine it where they refine.
- people (B) will get killed while moving ore to null and after sometime when they loose like 10bil, they will quit the game for sight.
- people (C)? who the hell are they? The big guys in ur corp who has been playing this game like years with dozen alt characters?
- people (D) would be the experianced players who will greately increase the mineral prices.
- people (A) will not maniacture anything couse the cost/profit margin will greately reduce becouse of some rich and experianced players who can obtain %4 implant (wich will cost bilions after sometime) can refine the ore and manufacture for cheaper cost will greately reduce module and ship prices. couse they can still make profit from it.

good news for pvp'ers. as always u forget that the modules ships that you are fighing in made by that freaking industrial people.

newbee industrials? there will be no more of them. to be able to have an efficient profit from construction u have to play this game like 6 months to achieve some skills and structures like POS'es.

oh i forget that POS usage has a greate security leaks just becouse of that only corp owners and directors be able to use them. Who are reserved all of the arrays for themselves and u have to wait for weeks juts for some copies.... Social isnt it?

i wonder why CCP came-up with this "greate" (!) idea after 10 years? wasnt that hard to grind missions already to get the perfect refining amount?. I hate people who deosnt play the game came up with theorical ideas which will ruin this game...

Will heavy water still play a role in compression for the Rorqual and/or be needed for the POS compression array? On the one hand, it sounds like you're moving away from that function of the Rorqual by eliminating the compression BPOs, but won't that make the Industrial Core obsolete without a heavy water consumption?

It seems to me you may not know what a slippery slope is. You might want to wikipedia it .

I'm not jumping to any ridiculous conclusions here I'm speaking of a historical pattern. Taking a historical pattern and stretching forth into the future and drawing conclusions from that is more like predictive modeling.

A slippery slope argument would be taking a fact totally out of any historical context and making a leap into territory not supported by any fact of the current state or historical correlation.

I clearly pointed out the facts indicating a close and friendly relationship that Mittens and CCP have with each other.

I also gave one example of the many that exist of when in the past this type of relationship has lead to favoritism which lead to out and out cheating

I then drew the conclusion that this indicates a high probability that these things will lead to the goons having an unjust amount of influence with the Devs on game mechanics.

What I left out was that Mittens is reported to be a retired lawyer making a 6 figure income from his website that get's it's traffic from his Eve fame. This fact ties Mittens and CCP together in a co-dependent business relationship.