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Dev Blog: Reprocess all the things!

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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#681 - 2014-03-21 05:09:13 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Berluth Luthian wrote:
Isn't a lot of the nullsec production problem, partly a nullsec culture problem. When alliances are run from the mentality that 'every body in a CTA matters' then you sort of alienate really productive indy pilots. So it is up to null sec 'culture leaders' to empower their own industrial base.


No, the nullsec production problem is caused by hi-sec having utter dominance in every conceivable industry advantage, to the point that the only people doing industry in null are either RPers, supercap builders or just plain bad at maths.

OK some hi bulk, low-value stuff gets built like ratting ammo and cap boosters, but even there the quantities are small compared to what gets imported.


What are you even talking about here? What industry advantage? As a matter of fact if you are at an NPC null sec station your manufacturing job set up costs are probably less, an insignificant amount less but less. Also you'll have open research slots for ME and copying for T2 production without needing to set up a PoS just for labs to make copies.

The reason most of the stuff in eve is made in high sec is becasue most of the players live in high sec therefore the null sec markets have less volume therefore it's more efficient to just buy the stuff from where it's made in high volumes by a large number of players than to have a much smaller number of players make a larger amount of small volume runs for **** that won't move on a market where someone would rather have something cynoed in than make 7 jumps to the nearest station in an industrial ship and risk loosing your ship to a roaming red gang.

There are reasons that high sec is where stuff is made and unless you want to change the game play in null sec away from shoot everything that moves to something more productive and less destructive no amount of market manipulation will change that.

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Opner Dresden
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#682 - 2014-03-21 05:12:33 UTC
mynnna wrote:


Hint: The answer is, once again, not A.

Just to cap things off, none of this changes if we're talking about a veteran player, except the activities are more like A) jump into your mackinaw and, realizing you've trained yourself down a dead-end training path, drink yourself into a stupor while mining these "pristine belts" for (at best) about 35m/hr b) run around as the veteran newbies follow around, ratting for a minimum of 60m/hr or c) Go out and have fun PvPing, knowing that if you die, you'll actually make money because of the corp reimbursement policies. Or, d), **** off to FW lowsec on an alt and farm the missions for far more isk/hr than anything you'll do in your own space... but that's a different topic entirely.

Answer? Still not A, sorry.


Your math is a bit off on the hourly... mining scales to more toons extremely well, ratting, mission running, incursions doesn't... per toon income per hour may not be epic, but you can stack more toons to make total isk per hour better. If it takes 2-3 days to plex all the accounts (one or multiple), isk/hour/toon is kind of a worthless metric and mining again becomes worthwhile.

The ore/ice changes are good, nothing wrong with them (except minmatar stations getting the fuzzy end of the lolly pop, but that will probably be adjusted before all is said and done), rorq and POS changes are fine and dandy (except the intensive might be a bit OP since it beats out all outposts until they've got lvl 2 upgrades in), but the scrap metal changes feel like such a brutal shift. Not only from a compression end, but also mission and ratting loot... this could easily be split out to a point patch after and give the market some time to implement the spiffy new compression system and get used to change in ore supply numbers since this is a nerf to all HS miners until they put up a POS and get an array for it.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#683 - 2014-03-21 05:26:36 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Rukoro Okagima wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

But it's acceptable that hi-sec is the only place that is viable for production, right?


So to fix that you make null the only place viable to do production? Can't there be an equal divide.....


Even after this change, hi-sec will still have numerous compelling advantages for industry.


Bullshit. And you know it.
And even if it did, you (by you I mean the cartel's) are actively lobbying to have high sec manufacturing slots nerfed to virtual non-existence, as well as mfg slot costs increased many orders of magnitude. I doubt you will get that assault on high sec rammed through with the June release, but it is happening soon enough.

You want the sheep to adjust to the new equilberium, possibly new players who have no recollection of what high sec should be like, before you hammer them with the manufacturing slot destruction.
Melek D'Ivri
Illuminated Overwatch Group
#684 - 2014-03-21 05:28:45 UTC
Querns wrote:
Melek D'Ivri wrote:
Querns wrote:
Qalix wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
In order to make null rewarding the perfect refining of high sec must go.

It would be nice to see you answer something without spin once in a while. Clearly, nosec is totally unrewarding and no one wants to go there. Only by stripping hisec of everything will nosec be rewarding.

You do realize it's not a zero sum game, right?

Adding things to nullsec does not take away from highsec, necessarily. You will continue to enjoy the same reproc rates as you did pre-patch in stations, and will receive a 4% bonus for refining at a pos.


This is not even remotely close to the same reproc rate.

Not for scrap metal, no.

If you were basing your livelihood solely on scooping completed mission sites, well, I'm afraid you will have to play with the big boys now.


That's an industry that from a small group of players can produce dozens of billions of ISK worth of profit. Per Week. even a 10% cut to that is pretty hefty.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#685 - 2014-03-21 05:29:31 UTC  |  Edited by: mynnna
Opner Dresden wrote:
mynnna wrote:


Hint: The answer is, once again, not A.

Just to cap things off, none of this changes if we're talking about a veteran player, except the activities are more like A) jump into your mackinaw and, realizing you've trained yourself down a dead-end training path, drink yourself into a stupor while mining these "pristine belts" for (at best) about 35m/hr b) run around as the veteran newbies follow around, ratting for a minimum of 60m/hr or c) Go out and have fun PvPing, knowing that if you die, you'll actually make money because of the corp reimbursement policies. Or, d), **** off to FW lowsec on an alt and farm the missions for far more isk/hr than anything you'll do in your own space... but that's a different topic entirely.

Answer? Still not A, sorry.


Your math is a bit off on the hourly... mining scales to more toons extremely well, ratting, mission running, incursions doesn't... per toon income per hour may not be epic, but you can stack more toons to make total isk per hour better. If it takes 2-3 days to plex all the accounts (one or multiple), isk/hour/toon is kind of a worthless metric and mining again becomes worthwhile.

The ore/ice changes are good, nothing wrong with them (except minmatar stations getting the fuzzy end of the lolly pop, but that will probably be adjusted before all is said and done), rorq and POS changes are fine and dandy (except the intensive might be a bit OP since it beats out all outposts until they've got lvl 2 upgrades in), but the scrap metal changes feel like such a brutal shift. Not only from a compression end, but also mission and ratting loot... this could easily be split out to a point patch after and give the market some time to implement the spiffy new compression system and get used to change in ore supply numbers since this is a nerf to all HS miners until they put up a POS and get an array for it.


Oh okay, so now we're expecting these three day old newbies to be running multiple accounts in order to serve as our slave labor?

Answer still not A, sorry.

And if we're talking about veteran players, well, Ishtars can be multiboxed quite effectively as well and so scale horizontally almost as well as mining does. They don't scale horizontally as far, but I've heard four or five is manageable and anomaly respawns can certainly support that. So, 240-300m/hr from those 4-5 ishtars. Multiboxed mining gang would need about 8-10 mackinaws to match that, but only if they have a rorqual for boosts, a hauler or two, and never have to move or do anything to interrupt the on-paper isk per hour value. Hulks, while they're higher yield, really aren't worth comparing since the requisite effort is a considerably larger increase.

So for most people the answer is still A, and unfortunately, the number of mass multiboxing sperglords in this game is low enough that, yeah, they still don't really supply enough minerals. Good thing compression exists, huh?

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#686 - 2014-03-21 05:34:27 UTC
mynnna wrote:
GreasyCarl Semah wrote:
Melek D'Ivri wrote:
Then make your recruiters do their stinking jobs and get 3 day old guys in ventures out there mining that crap. 1,000 guys in Ventures have to be better than your trit-drip you see. With changes to corp members allowed you guys have plenty of free space to get them doing gruntwork and still pay them worth their time.


Don't forget that CCP already dropped their shorts to the Goons when they added trit and pyerite to the mid grade ores a while back. Does anyone remember King windbag's pompous diatribe about farms and fields?

I guess that didn't work so now we have to try to rig the game some more to enable these people to be even more lazy than they already are. I invite anyone here to stop listening to the Goonswarm windbags who flood these forums with their crybaby antics and pick any path through null sec and visit system after system of belts that are never touched by a mining laser. Billions upon billions in ore and ice that never gets touched by a player. Yet all we see is post after post about how these people can't get enough minerals to make their precious supercaps. It is comical that these supposedly hardcore players who control hundreds of systems and have 20,000 members can't manage to put together a few billion tritanium.

And to top it all off, it is the "carebear" that is ruining the game! When exactly will CCP's catering to these people stop? Does it know no bounds?


So querns already made the point that you don't seem to get how asteroid belts work, so let's attack the rest of your premise. Imagine thescenario. You are a three day old newbie in an alliance well known for loving its newbies. You're looking for something to do, so do you a) start training down a pointless dead end training path (considering you want to pvp) and grab a venture, then go mining for 5m isk/hr? b) Run around behind a veteran looting his ratting sites for what is certainly more than that? c) bug a mentor for a stack of free frigates, have fun PvPing, then say something adorable on voice comms and get showered with more isk than you think you can possibly ever use (really, a couple hundred million) because of it?

Hint: The answer is not A.

And to squash the typical and hilariously wrong response I always see, the answer still does not become A if the person looking to buy the minerals just doubles the price he's willing to pay, because if you need some minerals are you going to a) offer to pay twice the going price just so you can get them locally or b) import them from empire in one of any of the readily available compressed forms?

Hint: The answer is, once again, not A.

Just to cap things off, none of this changes if we're talking about a veteran player, except the activities are more like A) jump into your mackinaw and, realizing you've trained yourself down a dead-end training path, drink yourself into a stupor while mining these "pristine belts" for (at best) about 35m/hr b) run around as the veteran newbies follow around, ratting for a minimum of 60m/hr or c) Go out and have fun PvPing, knowing that if you die, you'll actually make money because of the corp reimbursement policies. Or, d), **** off to FW lowsec on an alt and farm the missions for far more isk/hr than anything you'll do in your own space... but that's a different topic entirely.

Answer? Still not A, sorry.

In case you weren't aware, grav sites (the scanner based mining sites) respawn pretty much instantly if they're fully mined out. In other words, it's not like a lack of ore is why "we can't get enough minerals" - it's got everything to do with mining simply not being a worthwhile task.

Lemmih AI wrote:
Fredric Wolf wrote:
Do all the people in empire not realize that 78.2% refine after patch will be the same 100% refine they are currently getting? Empire isn't getting nerfed null is getting a slight buff.
Yes, they realize this. What you fail to realize is that with the skills that people in empire are currently using to get a 100% refine (Refining 5, RE 5, Ore 4, no implant), they will only get 68.31%, or a 12.7% loss compared to now. If they really believed that mining doesn't need a nerf right now, they'd adjust the ore composition to the 68.31% value rather than the elusive 78.2% value.


Oh no, now you'll have to train your skills up to their maximum level and use implants to achieve your fullest potential, just like every other activity in the game!Shocked



So bottom line, goons won't start mining in null sec until your dev's have buffed null sec mining to making as much coin as an FW plexer, or whatever the most profitable activity is in Eve at the time.

Good to know. Tell me, are you going to wreck all other forms of non-null sec income to achieve this, have your dev's increase by an order of magnitude the minerals that a null sec miner can harvest per hour, or some combination?
Alyxportur
From Our Cold Dead Hands
ORPHANS OF EVE
#687 - 2014-03-21 05:34:27 UTC
Are researched BPOs not worth more than market value?
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#688 - 2014-03-21 05:34:34 UTC
Anhenka wrote:


Those who spend the massive amount of time, isk, and effort to acquire and hold nullsec sov, then dump dozens of billions of isk into a refining station. then haul ore out or mine it locally most certainly deserve a definate advantage over highsec.


Null sec ratting is already exponentially more profitable than high sec mission running even in crappy -0.2 sec. Go to a -0.7 or better and it's like OMG better. Null sec mining is already significantly profitable than high sec just based on size of roids alone and not having to switch all the time never mind the better ores and the Rorqual bonuses. Then the moon minerals needed for T2 production come exclusively from non-high sec space and almost totally from null which means they can basically set the rates of T2 mats to what ever is needed to compensate for the costs of holding sov.

I'm not going to argue that null should not have some benefits to off set the increased costs so let's not pretend like they don't already have a lot of them.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
Matalino
#689 - 2014-03-21 05:35:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Matalino
Lemmih AI wrote:
Fredric Wolf wrote:
Do all the people in empire not realize that 78.2% refine after patch will be the same 100% refine they are currently getting? Empire isn't getting nerfed null is getting a slight buff.
Yes, they realize this. What you fail to realize is that with the skills that people in empire are currently using to get a 100% refine (Refining 5, RE 5, Ore 4, no implant), they will only get 68.31%, or a 12.7% loss compared to now. If they really believed that mining doesn't need a nerf right now, they'd adjust the ore composition to the 68.31% value rather than the elusive 78.2% value.
Given how easy it is to refine ore, how large of a price difference do you expect between ore and perfectly refined minerals. If there was a 2% or 3% difference in price between the ore and the minerals, how quickly do you think that ore would be purchased by someone with those skills so that they could resell the minerals. If you think there is going to be a huge difference in price between the cost of ore and the cost of minerals, then sink the training time into those skills and make a killing on refining ore. However, the more people follow that business model the smaller the margins are going to be.


Even if you have perfect skills + refining implant, you will probably still be better off selling your ore. The high-sec price of ore will likely be set by those refining at POS facilities. If you have a high-sec POS Refinery and no skills you can get 4% more minerals than having perfect skills and an implant at an NPC station. The refine rates at POS facilities render the refining skills irrelevant. POS operators can cut themselves a decent profit just buying ore at the price of perfect NPC station refined minerals: no skills required just a high-sec POS near a trade hub.
Melek D'Ivri
Illuminated Overwatch Group
#690 - 2014-03-21 05:37:23 UTC
Querns wrote:
GreasyCarl Semah wrote:
Melek D'Ivri wrote:
Then make your recruiters do their stinking jobs and get 3 day old guys in ventures out there mining that crap. 1,000 guys in Ventures have to be better than your trit-drip you see. With changes to corp members allowed you guys have plenty of free space to get them doing gruntwork and still pay them worth their time.


Don't forget that CCP already dropped their shorts to the Goons when they added trit and pyerite to the mid grade ores a while back. Does anyone remember King windbag's pompous diatribe about farms and fields?

I guess that didn't work so now we have to try to rig the game some more to enable these people to be even more lazy than they already are. I invite anyone here to stop listening to the Goonswarm windbags who flood these forums with their crybaby antics and pick any path through null sec and visit system after system of belts that are never touched by a mining laser. Billions upon billions in ore and ice that never gets touched by a player. Yet all we see is post after post about how these people can't get enough minerals to make their precious supercaps. It is comical that these supposedly hardcore players who control hundreds of systems and have 20,000 members can't manage to put together a few billion tritanium.

And to top it all off, it is the "carebear" that is ruining the game!

It's almost like you are dangerously misinformed about how asteroid belt mechanics work.


You are probably correct here. No one could possibly know about respawn rate timers on rocks day to day and the arguments on popping rocks vs leaving traces in them, popping roid sites to respawn new ones, or anything of that nature. Nobody reads or researches in their spare time.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#691 - 2014-03-21 05:40:00 UTC
Alyxportur wrote:
Are researched BPOs not worth more than market value?



Not if everyone is dumping the same one at once. I think you are missing the fact that currently much of cap ship production is done by taking ore in high sec and turning into 425mm rail guns to ship down to low or null sec and then reprocessed to make the cap ship components. Most cap ship producers have dozens of these BPOs for the purpose of making minerals easier to ship. This nerf will make those BPOs nearly useless as thousands of people will be looking to sell them to a market where they are no longer needed. There is probably many thousands of times more 425mm rail BPOs out there than any other turret I bet.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#692 - 2014-03-21 05:40:07 UTC
Melek D'Ivri wrote:
Querns wrote:

It's almost like you are dangerously misinformed about how asteroid belt mechanics work.


You are probably correct here. No one could possibly know about respawn rate timers on rocks day to day and the arguments on popping rocks vs leaving traces in them, popping roid sites to respawn new ones, or anything of that nature. Nobody reads or researches in their spare time.

If you did know these things, you'd know that nullsec asteroids contain inferior ore for generating lowends compared to lowsec and highsec, and would know that the "HUGE ASTEROIDS OMG" that you see in nullsec belts are the result of years of trickle accumulation and do not represent the state of the asteroid after it's been mined to completion. These asteroids would provide a one-time injection of minerals, and after this would trickle in ore at a snail's pace.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#693 - 2014-03-21 05:45:13 UTC  |  Edited by: mynnna
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:



So bottom line, goons won't start mining in null sec until your dev's have buffed null sec mining to making as much coin as an FW plexer, or whatever the most profitable activity is in Eve at the time.

Good to know. Tell me, are you going to wreck all other forms of non-null sec income to achieve this, have your dev's increase by an order of magnitude the minerals that a null sec miner can harvest per hour, or some combination?


Hardly. Having it be competitive with nullsec ratting would be sufficient. You wouldn't do one activity if another one was more valuable, why would you expect anyone else to? And you don't even have to increase the amount of minerals found in nullsec, really. Remove the lowsec and highsec ores from nullsec mining sites and buff the remaining six nullsec ores a little more, basically adding the minerals you removed back in. Overall minerals in the site thus doesn't change, but as you've increased the value density of the site, isk/hr climbs... up to around 55m/hr for an xlarge or giant, which would be just fine.


I don't think even you can find anything sinister in that.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#694 - 2014-03-21 05:47:40 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

Of course it is wrong.
But the cartels are ramming through this change because they expect it to be a net gain to their serf population in null sec, while at the same time hammering high sec.

The cartels know that this will shrink the overall subscription base as many new high sec players will quit once the full impact of this attack is felt. But their personal income will increase as some will migrate to null sec that would not have done so otherwise, and that is all that matters to them.



Whoop Whoop! Grab da Tinfoil!


you are going to pretend like mittens (a.k.a. the mitani) and the Devs don't have circle jerk parties when he goes to Iceland and that his time as a CSM has not gained him a personal realtionship with them? Or are we going to pretend like the Devs haven't been caught more than once helping out their favorite null sec alliance like the Free BPOs they gave to BOB. The guy is not making some conspiracy theory he's pointing out a cozy relationship that does exist between the CCP devs and the big null sec alliance heads and a history of those cozy relationships leading to favoritism and in some cases outright cheating.

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Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#695 - 2014-03-21 05:50:11 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Anhenka wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

Of course it is wrong.
But the cartels are ramming through this change because they expect it to be a net gain to their serf population in null sec, while at the same time hammering high sec.

The cartels know that this will shrink the overall subscription base as many new high sec players will quit once the full impact of this attack is felt. But their personal income will increase as some will migrate to null sec that would not have done so otherwise, and that is all that matters to them.



Whoop Whoop! Grab da Tinfoil!


you are going to pretend like mittens (a.k.a. the mitani) and the Devs don't have circle jerk parties when he goes to Iceland and that his time as a CSM has not gained him a personal realtionship with them? Or are we going to pretend like the Devs haven't been caught more than once helping out their favorite null sec alliance like the Free BPOs they gave to BOB. The guy is not making some conspiracy theory he's pointing out a cozy relationship that does exist between the CCP devs and the big null sec alliance heads and a history of those cozy relationships leading to favoritism and in some cases outright cheating.

Gee, this slope looks awfully slippery. I don't know if we should.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Melek D'Ivri
Illuminated Overwatch Group
#696 - 2014-03-21 05:50:40 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:



So bottom line, goons won't start mining in null sec until your dev's have buffed null sec mining to making as much coin as an FW plexer, or whatever the most profitable activity is in Eve at the time.

Good to know. Tell me, are you going to wreck all other forms of non-null sec income to achieve this, have your dev's increase by an order of magnitude the minerals that a null sec miner can harvest per hour, or some combination?


Hardly. Having it be competitive with nullsec ratting would be sufficient. You wouldn't do one activity if another one was more valuable, why would you expect anyone else to?


I mine regularly just for the fun of it. The ISK I do [or don't] make while mining is a pure byproduct for me. Sometimes I salvage because there are more wrecks than rats at the moment, even if it's of less profit to me. If I am in dire need of ISK, yes, I probably mission because that's my best current ISK-HR ratio, but if I'm tired of it, or just not interested, I find something else to do. Not everyone really IS interested in ISK per hour, oddly. They just want to have fun doing what they do and not see it continually axed away at until they can't profit at all from what they find interesting to do.
d'Arma Edd
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#697 - 2014-03-21 05:54:35 UTC
Reimbursement of Compression BPO - OK.
And what about BPCs?
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#698 - 2014-03-21 05:56:43 UTC
Querns wrote:
ergherhdfgh wrote:

After years of reading these blogs and seeing the results I can only conclude one of two things. Either the CCP Devs are totally and completely incompetent or they are lying. Spoken more directly option 2 would be that they are working behind the scenes to reduce the amount of players that can pay for game time with in game money. Since they have allowed PLEXs to be moved and thus lost to the RNG gods and with the aurum scandal a few years back and now ship painting for aurum it seems like option 2 is more likely.

You seem to be under the delusion that a player subscribing his account with PLEX purchased from the market are somehow denying CCP income, when the opposite is actually true -- PLEX are more expensive to purchase than a corresponding month of subscription time paid directly.


No I am not. I fully understand that. What you seem to be missing is the corprate business model which is too much is never enough. Yes PLEXs cost more than game time purchased with a subscription but the way the MBA mind works is why have one or the other when you can have both.

Corporations don't like giving up money. Once they have your money they've already counted it and spent it even if like in the case of the PLEX the money has not been used for services yet. They do not like that debt sitting out there. They just want to keep your money and owe you nothing. Now that can't do that but what they will inevitably do is find more and more ways to not have to come through on delivering those services. Thus we've had the introduction of the destructability of PLEX and Aurum and such.

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Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#699 - 2014-03-21 06:01:51 UTC
FYI I'm all for high-sec having ISK making capabilities matching that of 0.0

I just want them taxed at 90% because after all, CONCORD gotta get paid.

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
Lady Areola Fappington
#700 - 2014-03-21 06:02:08 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:


you are going to pretend like mittens (a.k.a. the mitani) and the Devs don't have circle jerk parties when he goes to Iceland and that his time as a CSM has not gained him a personal realtionship with them? Or are we going to pretend like the Devs haven't been caught more than once helping out their favorite null sec alliance like the Free BPOs they gave to BOB. The guy is not making some conspiracy theory he's pointing out a cozy relationship that does exist between the CCP devs and the big null sec alliance heads and a history of those cozy relationships leading to favoritism and in some cases outright cheating.



I'm going to assume you have a job/career you'd like to hang on to. Would *YOU* give your bestest best pal a freebie, knowing that doing so would likely cost you your job, and get you blackballed from the industry you work in? If not, why the default assumption that an employee at CCP would do it?

Also, referring to ~10 year old incidents as some kind of new, pressing trend is silly. The very few incidents since of dev misconduct that have happened, CCP has taken action and swiftly resolved the issue.

CCP recognized the fault, implemented controls, and have proven since that they'll act on said controls. Really, what MORE do you want, blood?

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide