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Dev Blog: Reprocess all the things!

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Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#641 - 2014-03-21 03:38:14 UTC
k. i got the impression you were about to be not-happy after the change. disregard

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#642 - 2014-03-21 03:38:47 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4365984#post4365984

i just think if it means moving, joining someone else, maybe it should be considered. if you're capable of building ships and making it happen on your own, I imagine there are people who will have you.


I don't want to move and join other people. I am happy where I am. If null sec people are having a hard time finding warm bodies to do things for them, perhaps they should change their politics can not whine to CCP to change the game.

actually, it sounds like your not happy where you are because even the slightest change made you unhappy

maybe you should contemplate branching out from just reprocessing mission loot, there's a wide world out there

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#643 - 2014-03-21 03:39:10 UTC
Marsan wrote:


They can't do a way with the Extra Materials cost on a number of ships as there are still large stocks of those ships built prior to material requirement changes. If you merge the Extra Materials on those ship they can be reprocessed for more than they were built.


This is not a valid argument as this ship it's self can be sold for the current value of the minerals + margin so it would be a loss to reprocess it regardless.

I am going to use an example here and assume a 7% margin as that seems to be a decent moderate number.

Example:
Say you build a bunch of Dominixs before the changes and you built them for 80 million isk worth of minerals but they were selling for 85.6 million. So you invested the time and manufacturing costs into building them to make 7% so you are going to refine the ship to loose all that? Probably not.

Now forward to today. Lets say now it costs 160 million in minerals to build a Dominix but they are selling for 171.2. Sure you could reprocess the ship and get double the minerals but why when you could sell the whole ship for an 11.2 million profit?

The damage has been done with the jacked up minerals already. I fail to see the difference if someone reprocesses the above ship. Either way they are doubling their isk from initial investment. I'm sure the forums will correct me if I'm missing something here but I see no reason they can't just fix it now.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
Ispia Jaydrath
Reib Autonomous Industries
#644 - 2014-03-21 03:40:36 UTC
So, as a lowsec builder, what I'm getting is that I have to either run around picking up ore, or give part of my margin to some ******* who's willing to compress it for me. Also, I need a tower in lowsec to keep up with the joneses. Also, anybody who builds in sov null and jumps the finished product to low can crush me.

I'm not going to threaten to leave the game or anything, but if you're going to **** my livelihood from three directions at once you could at least not be all condescending about how nobody has anything to worry about.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#645 - 2014-03-21 03:43:00 UTC
Ispia Jaydrath wrote:
So, as a lowsec builder

stop being a lowsec builder?

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Ronny Hugo
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#646 - 2014-03-21 03:43:47 UTC
At OP, I beg you to make all the ore units equal to 1 per m3. Why on earth would anyone use another unit than the volume itself? Are we using some obscure mole measurement?
Veldspar = 1m3 = 1 unit
Scordite = 1m3 = 1 unit
etc.
Nex Killer
Perkone
Caldari State
#647 - 2014-03-21 03:44:12 UTC
mkint wrote:
hopielee hopielie wrote:
jeep hearing that the PoS will compete with the roqu. it will not, because if you are in high or low sec, finding a moon will be a problem(high sec standings may as well). but in null you would need a ship to carry the compressed ores, and have a tank, so think the rorq will be fine.

Can't use rorq in high. Anywhere else you always do rorqual compression in the pos shield anyway. And anywhere you've already got a POS shield, save yourself the fuel cost and just run the pos mod. Highsec POSes aren't that hard to get anyway, but it's a useful thing that most people don't realize it.


I don't get why they just didn't make the Orca into a mini Rorq that lets you compress in highsec.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#648 - 2014-03-21 03:46:48 UTC
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#649 - 2014-03-21 03:48:22 UTC
Querns wrote:
Melek D'Ivri wrote:
Querns wrote:
Qalix wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
In order to make null rewarding the perfect refining of high sec must go.

It would be nice to see you answer something without spin once in a while. Clearly, nosec is totally unrewarding and no one wants to go there. Only by stripping hisec of everything will nosec be rewarding.

You do realize it's not a zero sum game, right?

Adding things to nullsec does not take away from highsec, necessarily. You will continue to enjoy the same reproc rates as you did pre-patch in stations, and will receive a 4% bonus for refining at a pos.


This is not even remotely close to the same reproc rate.

Not for scrap metal, no.

If you were basing your livelihood solely on scooping completed mission sites, well, I'm afraid you will have to play with the big boys now.


An occupation of scooping trash has become trash.

Maybe there's a smaller trash heap inside?

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
Melek D'Ivri
Illuminated Overwatch Group
#650 - 2014-03-21 03:48:54 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Jeremy Soikutsu wrote:

So like I was getting at the problem isn't that there isn't a mountain Veld, or Trit if you prefer, in null. It's just that people don't feel like actually taking it.


Why would we?

High sec offers the exact same but with all the benefits of high sec safety. Why would we take the extra risk for no reward?


Actually thanks to the new profession/career/PvP we know and love called Miner-Bumping & Ganking nulsec belts are quite severely safer than what we have in high sec. 5 seconds away from our keyboard means we come back wherever we had our clone at. 5 seconds away from your keyboard means the neut is still 7-8 jumps away from you so you can decide if it's time to dock up.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#651 - 2014-03-21 03:49:39 UTC
Dramaticus wrote:
Querns wrote:

Not for scrap metal, no.

If you were basing your livelihood solely on scooping completed mission sites, well, I'm afraid you will have to play with the big boys now.


An occupation of scooping trash has become trash.

Maybe there's a smaller trash heap inside?

Most likely, it's in the capsule of the ship doing the trash cleanup. :sun:

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#652 - 2014-03-21 03:50:27 UTC
Melek D'Ivri wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Jeremy Soikutsu wrote:

So like I was getting at the problem isn't that there isn't a mountain Veld, or Trit if you prefer, in null. It's just that people don't feel like actually taking it.


Why would we?

High sec offers the exact same but with all the benefits of high sec safety. Why would we take the extra risk for no reward?


Actually thanks to the new profession/career/PvP we know and love called Miner-Bumping & Ganking nulsec belts are quite severely safer than what we have in high sec. 5 seconds away from our keyboard means we come back wherever we had our clone at. 5 seconds away from your keyboard means the neut is still 7-8 jumps away from you so you can decide if it's time to dock up.

Fly a procurer or skiff.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Mario Putzo
#653 - 2014-03-21 03:54:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Weaselior wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4365984#post4365984

i just think if it means moving, joining someone else, maybe it should be considered. if you're capable of building ships and making it happen on your own, I imagine there are people who will have you.


I don't want to move and join other people. I am happy where I am. If null sec people are having a hard time finding warm bodies to do things for them, perhaps they should change their politics can not whine to CCP to change the game.

actually, it sounds like your not happy where you are because even the slightest change made you unhappy
maybe you should contemplate branching out from just reprocessing mission loot, there's a wide world out there


Taking nearly 30% of a yield is not a small change by any means, I now have to do 30% more to match miners who now have to do 10% less (assuming they take the 2 minutes to find a new favorable refining station), and null folks who do practically nothing to suckle on the teet of R32/R64 Passive moongoo.

I shouldn't have to contemplate branching out, I shouldn't have to contemplate moving, the only reason for this change is to appease null sec groups and CCP's ridiculous fascination with reading news reports about how 4K nolifes spent 18 hours fighting in .01% real time.

I get you are Goonie, and have blued 3/4 of EVE already, but I don't feel that forcing folks to kiss a ring of a null lord is promoting emergent game play. It makes no sense and only further decreases the value of living and operating in Low Security space.
Regan Rotineque
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#654 - 2014-03-21 03:55:23 UTC
Quote:

null should be the worst refining and production. there profit is in every other area. this added with the removal of PoS fuels from high sec. just makes the game unrealistic mechs. if you go to the congo to mine gold or diamonds, you do not expect to find a 5 star restaurant. and you expect to import all your eq.


I agree with the principal behind this...if it was the congo and the real world. In the realities of EvE - risk needs to be balanced with reward. What I am suggesting is that Player Built Structures should be better than NPC structures. And that their location in the game world should offer bonuses based on where they are. ie: Null provides advantages over low sec which provides advantages over high sec.

I think the ultimate solution is higher taxes for high sec - not because i want to punish high sec dwellers but because using your analogy of the congo and a 5 star restaurant - the costs of doing business - ie: NPC Corp overhead - higher wages - unions - Concord Protection etc...etc... should cost much more than it does now. Whereas Sov territories held by alliances should be able to set their own rates.
Melek D'Ivri
Illuminated Overwatch Group
#655 - 2014-03-21 03:55:59 UTC
Querns wrote:
GreasyCarl Semah wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Krom Thomson wrote:

you do get more reward you guys get the better rocks and bigger rocks


Refining is 100% and most rocks can be found in high sec in large quantities where they can be mined in near perfect safety.

Null has nothing to offer in terms of mining or processing those minerals.


More lies. Anomalies in high sec are mined out very quickly. There is system after system of belts in null sec with great ore that you guys can't seem to figure out how to take safely. Either that or you are too lazy to take it.

The problem is that what you see as "system after system of belts in null sec" is actually a pittance of ore compared to what the fires of industry require. We work on different scales; the miner sees boundless fields of plenty, while the supercap producer sees a bare pipe rising out of the ground in a desert ghost town, dripping a little bit of trit onto the ground once every few minutes.


Then make your recruiters do their stinking jobs and get 3 day old guys in ventures out there mining that crap. 1,000 guys in Ventures have to be better than your trit-drip you see. With changes to corp members allowed you guys have plenty of free space to get them doing gruntwork and still pay them worth their time.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#656 - 2014-03-21 03:55:59 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4365984#post4365984

i just think if it means moving, joining someone else, maybe it should be considered. if you're capable of building ships and making it happen on your own, I imagine there are people who will have you.


I don't want to move and join other people. I am happy where I am. If null sec people are having a hard time finding warm bodies to do things for them, perhaps they should change their politics can not whine to CCP to change the game.

actually, it sounds like your not happy where you are because even the slightest change made you unhappy
maybe you should contemplate branching out from just reprocessing mission loot, there's a wide world out there


Taking nearly 30% of a yield is not a small change by any means, I now have to do 30% more to match miners who now have to do 10% less, and null folks who do nothing to suckle on the teet of R32/R64 Passive moongoo.

I shouldn't have to contemplate branching out, I shouldn't have to contemplate moving, the only reason for this change is to appease null sec groups and CCP's ridiculous fascination with reading news reports about how 4K nolifes spent 18 hours fighting in .01% real time.

I get you are Goonie, and have blued 3/4 of EVE already, but I don't feel that forcing folks to kiss a ring of a null lord is promoting emergent game play. It makes no sense and only further decreases the value of living and operating in Low Security space.

Let no man touch the sacred cow of whatever profession I've chosen this week!

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Zetaomega333
High Flyers
#657 - 2014-03-21 03:57:10 UTC
What is the point of changing it so people cant hit 100% refine? Why is this a problem or goal? Module or ship refining i sort of get but you made your own solution with the adition of extra materials to the bpo's and this just seems a copout of changing the rest of the bpos and for doing less work. Adding refinery's to all the stations is a good idea and one long overdue but i just cant get around what the hell is wrong with hitting 100% refine, Mind you i dont have all my ore specs to 5 they are all sitting at 4 and most are 16 days each. thats a lot of training there.

So really what is your problem with people hitting 100% refine, i would think after the massive amount of training time people put being able to perfectly refine somthing would be ok.

Second thing is in the past the pos mobile refinerys were **** mainly due to the fact they didnt take into account reprocessing skills? is this still true or will they finally be able to. If not they will be just as worthless as before.

Oh i also have to ask why ccp thinks there are so many tier 3 upgraded stations? Iv seen 2 in my time in nullsec in over 2 years, they take somthing like 80 billion isk if not more to upgrade to thier 3 which is a huge problem, you cant build the upgrades you have to cart them through highsec wh's then go through the archacic process of upgrading them day by day as you can only do one act per a day.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#658 - 2014-03-21 03:58:39 UTC
they're trying to see how ****** they can make the game for miners before they realize their life sucks

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#659 - 2014-03-21 03:58:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Querns
e: clipping nested quotes

Melek D'Ivri wrote:
[quote=Querns]
Then make your recruiters do their stinking jobs and get 3 day old guys in ventures out there mining that crap. 1,000 guys in Ventures have to be better than your trit-drip you see. With changes to corp members allowed you guys have plenty of free space to get them doing gruntwork and still pay them worth their time.


This is a terrible idea. Venture mining pays out at most 5m isk/hr without bonuses, and that is on hedbergite. Nullsec ore is much less valuable than that. It's much more efficient to get them mining ice a week after they start for 30m isk/hr.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Zetaomega333
High Flyers
#660 - 2014-03-21 03:59:05 UTC
Quote:
this added with the removal of PoS fuels from high sec.


What world do you live in? I still see ice belts and planets to do pi at in highsec. We have the SAME ice belt mechanics in null as you do in empire.