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Dev Blog: Reprocess all the things!

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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#361 - 2014-03-20 20:26:51 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:


which really is by far the most boring activity in eve. i guess more people quit because mining is boring than anything else.

(sadly) there are plenty people around that will buy ore or support newbie miners in mining corps.



It's only boring for you. Don't assume everyone on the planet has the same likes and dislikes as you. Early on in this game I really loved the large scale mining ops I was involved in. How ever once you get past the noob phase and do some basic math and discover that mining income is nothing compared to pretty much everything else then you refocus. I moved to missions and then ratting not because it was more fun but because it was more isk and also can be done solo where as mining has to be done in groups to be effective. The fact that mining is by nature a group activity makes it more social, more engaging and by my measure more fun. I also think group activities should be incentivised over solo activities in an MMO. However I see no way to do that unless you eliminate mining bots.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
#362 - 2014-03-20 20:27:17 UTC
I've only tried industry in passing in the past, but this beautiful UI makes me want to become an industrialist now!

Can you please add the total volume on the left side as well, so that it's easy to compare the "reverse-compression" ratio at a glance
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#363 - 2014-03-20 20:28:56 UTC
Rukoro Okagima wrote:


And your one of those I live in null sec so everyone else go.......... so are you not worth my time. No I understand its not free and I will always go for what's most profitable and knowing me I will buy minerals with mineral profits but it seem just a little like screwing some to unscrew others why not try to fix the issue. Tbh I feel null sec should because of the risks have a buff eg like 120% efficiency however I don't think that a player with perfect standings with an npc corp (and perfect refining skills) should have less then 99% efficiency.


You can only have 100% efficiency.

In order to make null rewarding the perfect refining of high sec must go.
Rukoro Okagima
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#364 - 2014-03-20 20:31:56 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Raquel Smith wrote:

CCP is touching a part of the game which is sacred: perfect processing;

you need to get out more


Go burn Jita or something everyone in eve has things their passionate about why do you have to ignore that if you don't care finish off N3 beat up the Brave Noobies (I don't mind I'm for sale) But seriously I get your point but I don't [or rather I hope] really think she means sacred its just a term of phrase leave her to exaggerate in peace.
Rukoro Okagima
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#365 - 2014-03-20 20:34:19 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Rukoro Okagima wrote:


And your one of those I live in null sec so everyone else go.......... so are you not worth my time. No I understand its not free and I will always go for what's most profitable and knowing me I will buy minerals with mineral profits but it seem just a little like screwing some to unscrew others why not try to fix the issue. Tbh I feel null sec should because of the risks have a buff eg like 120% efficiency however I don't think that a player with perfect standings with an npc corp (and perfect refining skills) should have less then 99% efficiency.


You can only have 100% efficiency.

In order to make null rewarding the perfect refining of high sec must go.


coughs so you've read the Dev blog then points to Hisec 113% efficiency stats

And I thought I was on shaky ground..
Destitute Tehol Beddict
Binary Trading
#366 - 2014-03-20 20:36:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Destitute Tehol Beddict
IMO the I like the ORE changes

I highly DISLIKE the Module/Scraps Reprocessing Changes..

Not only is this nerfing professions like salvaging/reprocessing (I do this) but it seems like such a waste.

In alternative...

You should be able to achieve 100% refine with 10.0 Standing (NPC station) + Perfect Skills + Implant

Also change the m3 amounts for modules so they are more reflective of there mineral composition.

Loot Buying service: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4529397#post4529397
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#367 - 2014-03-20 20:36:59 UTC
Rukoro Okagima wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Rukoro Okagima wrote:


And your one of those I live in null sec so everyone else go.......... so are you not worth my time. No I understand its not free and I will always go for what's most profitable and knowing me I will buy minerals with mineral profits but it seem just a little like screwing some to unscrew others why not try to fix the issue. Tbh I feel null sec should because of the risks have a buff eg like 120% efficiency however I don't think that a player with perfect standings with an npc corp (and perfect refining skills) should have less then 99% efficiency.


You can only have 100% efficiency.

In order to make null rewarding the perfect refining of high sec must go.


coughs so you've read the Dev blog then points to Hisec 113% efficiency stats

And I thought I was on shaky ground..


Sure, you can get the raw number up to 113% right now. It caps at 100%. You can't get more minerals that way.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Destitute Tehol Beddict
Binary Trading
#368 - 2014-03-20 20:37:22 UTC
Rukoro Okagima wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Rukoro Okagima wrote:


And your one of those I live in null sec so everyone else go.......... so are you not worth my time. No I understand its not free and I will always go for what's most profitable and knowing me I will buy minerals with mineral profits but it seem just a little like screwing some to unscrew others why not try to fix the issue. Tbh I feel null sec should because of the risks have a buff eg like 120% efficiency however I don't think that a player with perfect standings with an npc corp (and perfect refining skills) should have less then 99% efficiency.


You can only have 100% efficiency.

In order to make null rewarding the perfect refining of high sec must go.


coughs so you've read the Dev blog then points to Hisec 113% efficiency stats

And I thought I was on shaky ground..


you only ever get 100% efficiency... the extra % is just wasted.

Loot Buying service: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4529397#post4529397
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#369 - 2014-03-20 20:40:01 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Adellle Nadair wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Berluth Luthian wrote:
Isn't a lot of the nullsec production problem, partly a nullsec culture problem. When alliances are run from the mentality that 'every body in a CTA matters' then you sort of alienate really productive indy pilots. So it is up to null sec 'culture leaders' to empower their own industrial base.


No, the nullsec production problem is caused by hi-sec having utter dominance in every conceivable industry advantage, to the point that the only people doing industry in null are either RPers, supercap builders or just plain bad at maths.

OK some hi bulk, low-value stuff gets built like ratting ammo and cap boosters, but even there the quantities are small compared to what gets imported.


The attitude that nullsec is the only way to play the game and that everyone needs to take part is wrong. It is perfectly acceptable to play and do things in highsec. Highsec should always have the ability to do most things as well as null. That gives more things to do and more ways to play. There are a large amount of players that want to be able to play casually, (relatively) safely and without the drama of nullsec life. Null should have methods to make industry more welcoming, and make it not as hard as it is now to manufacture. But giving nullsec game mechanics that make it impossible to compete in highsec is wrong.


But it's acceptable that hi-sec is the only place that is viable for production, right?


I don't think that fixing null industry and not nerfing empire industry are really mutually exclusive. Null industry can be fixed without driving the empire industry to the ground.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#370 - 2014-03-20 20:42:06 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
In order to make null rewarding the perfect refining of high sec must go.

CLUE: the 5 or 6 percent who are in 0.0 who aren't in null sec still won't join you.
LolLolLolLolLol
Just looking at this thread (and who's telling who to STFU & GTFO) I can see that Null-sec's investment in the CSM is paying off.

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Rukoro Okagima
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#371 - 2014-03-20 20:42:25 UTC

Bows to Steve Ronuken's superior knowledge. As I respect all the work you have done I will now try to sit back and watch however do you not agree at least that this put salvager's severely out of pocket.
Qalix
Long Jump.
#372 - 2014-03-20 20:43:03 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
In order to make null rewarding the perfect refining of high sec must go.

It would be nice to see you answer something without spin once in a while. Clearly, nosec is totally unrewarding and no one wants to go there. Only by stripping hisec of everything will nosec be rewarding.

You do realize it's not a zero sum game, right?
Kiere Padecain
Doomheim
#373 - 2014-03-20 20:43:39 UTC
You're making a big change so that people should spend the 6+ months training their refinery skills up, giving two tiers of max refinery, one in NPC stations and one in nullsec outposts.

Then you take all that and throw it away saying that PoS refinery will be better than NPC stations without any skills or implants needed.

So that means people can launch a PoS in highsec using standing boosters, and by that get refinery without any skilltime spent at all.

Guess we'll see that rise of hundreds of refinery corps, only there to hold a highsec PoS to refine in.

Skills should affect the PoS refinery just like anywhere else, making PoS refineries still useful, even though STILL requiring the training time to do so.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#374 - 2014-03-20 20:45:32 UTC
Qalix wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
In order to make null rewarding the perfect refining of high sec must go.

It would be nice to see you answer something without spin once in a while. Clearly, nosec is totally unrewarding and no one wants to go there. Only by stripping hisec of everything will nosec be rewarding.

You do realize it's not a zero sum game, right?

Adding things to nullsec does not take away from highsec, necessarily. You will continue to enjoy the same reproc rates as you did pre-patch in stations, and will receive a 4% bonus for refining at a pos.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#375 - 2014-03-20 20:45:43 UTC
There are quite a few people who gun mine in NPC 0.0, I am one of them, I have to say that this is a real kick in the nuts, its extremely painful.





When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#376 - 2014-03-20 20:45:58 UTC
Qalix wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
In order to make null rewarding the perfect refining of high sec must go.

It would be nice to see you answer something without spin once in a while. Clearly, nosec is totally unrewarding and no one wants to go there. Only by stripping hisec of everything will nosec be rewarding.

You do realize it's not a zero sum game, right?


If high sec offers the same or better rewards as null sec why would people go to null?
Darth Skorpius
352 Industries
#377 - 2014-03-20 20:47:53 UTC
I note with interest that you can now output reprocessed materials into a container, will be now be able to reprocess them while they are in a container, removing the need to move them to the hanger

Follow my Adventures in New Eden!
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#378 - 2014-03-20 20:47:55 UTC
Rukoro Okagima wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

But it's acceptable that hi-sec is the only place that is viable for production, right?


So to fix that you make null the only place viable to do production? Can't there be an equal divide.....


Even after this change, hi-sec will still have numerous compelling advantages for industry.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#379 - 2014-03-20 20:48:02 UTC
Kiere Padecain wrote:
You're making a big change so that people should spend the 6+ months training their refinery skills up, giving two tiers of max refinery, one in NPC stations and one in nullsec outposts.

Then you take all that and throw it away saying that PoS refinery will be better than NPC stations without any skills or implants needed.

So that means people can launch a PoS in highsec using standing boosters, and by that get refinery without any skilltime spent at all.

Guess we'll see that rise of hundreds of refinery corps, only there to hold a highsec PoS to refine in.

Skills should affect the PoS refinery just like anywhere else, making PoS refineries still useful, even though STILL requiring the training time to do so.


POS cost more to run than the free NPC station and can be destroyed.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#380 - 2014-03-20 20:48:42 UTC
Alp Khan wrote:
[quote=Malcanis]

I don't think that fixing null industry and not nerfing empire industry are really mutually exclusive. Null industry can be fixed without driving the empire industry to the ground.


With the current state of manufacturing, I believe you are wrong on this point:

Highsec has the costumers.
Highsec has perfect refine.
Highsec has more build options.
Highsec has more safety.

The only way you will encourage nullsec industry is to make it competitive with highsec industry. Highsec currently has all the conveniences you'd desire for industry, why would anyone produce in nullsec?

The answer is profitability. You need to reward the effort and risks associated with operating in nullsec/lowsec with more profitable manufacturing. This won't eliminate highsec manufacturing from producing the majority of items in game, because (as demonstrated by many posts in this thread), players are generally lazy and are more than willing to sacrifice some profits for convenience.