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Dev Blog: Reprocess all the things!

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Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#341 - 2014-03-20 20:01:14 UTC
Rukoro Okagima wrote:
Quote:
WHO ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME?!? Because mining is not actually needed to build anything, right?


Mining is yes but restricting the profits of it to only those who live in null sov space I feel is a little off

You are aware that with compression available in highsec, profits for highsec miners won't change? You do not, and in fact SHOULD NOT refine ore in highsec unless you intend to build things with it immediately. Even then, it may be a better idea to sell the ore and buy the minerals with the proceeds, as the ore will be worth MORE than the minerals available in highsec!

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
GreasyCarl Semah
A Game as Old as Empire
#342 - 2014-03-20 20:03:28 UTC
Grookshank wrote:
What I am implying it, that this is a serious nerve to wreck loot - mostly for new players who miss the skills to blitz. Blitzing is already more efficient than looting/salvaging. So once you have the skills, you won't touch wrecks anyways. The people who are hit are players who rely on salvage/looting. Miners will profit since their efficiency is compensated and the demand will less be filled by loot/salvage. So in the end, the afk-miner profits. This is not a high/low/null thing, but a general change. I don't get what positive this part of the change does. It basically rewards afk-gaming.


Interesting point here. The price of rig salvage has already been crushed thanks to exploration. So now we are going to reduce the minerals you get from reprocessing the modules too? Why even have wrecks in missions any more?
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#343 - 2014-03-20 20:04:51 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Big changes coming! Big smile


Big nerfs to high sec coming.

Fixed it for you.

Can I borrow your tinfoil hat, I been to line the bottom of my grill before I have a barbecue.


Right, so this announcement is not a net nerf to high sec?
And this is apparently just the first of several "big changes", as per the dev''s first post.
Rukoro Okagima
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#344 - 2014-03-20 20:05:03 UTC
Querns wrote:
Rukoro Okagima wrote:
Quote:
WHO ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME?!? Because mining is not actually needed to build anything, right?


Mining is yes but restricting the profits of it to only those who live in null sov space I feel is a little off

You are aware that with compression available in highsec, profits for highsec miners won't change? You do not, and in fact SHOULD NOT refine ore in highsec unless you intend to build things with it immediately. Even then, it may be a better idea to sell the ore and buy the minerals with the proceeds, as the ore will be worth MORE than the minerals available in highsec!


Oh so now High/low sec (and btw I no longer mine or produce but I know many who do) miners shouldn't rely on there own stocks they should buy there minerals from there null sec overlords. Bows to the CFC
Rukoro Okagima
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#345 - 2014-03-20 20:06:19 UTC
GreasyCarl Semah wrote:
Grookshank wrote:
What I am implying it, that this is a serious nerve to wreck loot - mostly for new players who miss the skills to blitz. Blitzing is already more efficient than looting/salvaging. So once you have the skills, you won't touch wrecks anyways. The people who are hit are players who rely on salvage/looting. Miners will profit since their efficiency is compensated and the demand will less be filled by loot/salvage. So in the end, the afk-miner profits. This is not a high/low/null thing, but a general change. I don't get what positive this part of the change does. It basically rewards afk-gaming.


Interesting point here. The price of rig salvage has already been crushed thanks to exploration. So now we are going to reduce the minerals you get from reprocessing the modules too? Why even have wrecks in missions any more?

Why have wrecks any more full stop
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#346 - 2014-03-20 20:06:33 UTC
GreasyCarl Semah wrote:
Grookshank wrote:
What I am implying it, that this is a serious nerve to wreck loot - mostly for new players who miss the skills to blitz. Blitzing is already more efficient than looting/salvaging. So once you have the skills, you won't touch wrecks anyways. The people who are hit are players who rely on salvage/looting. Miners will profit since their efficiency is compensated and the demand will less be filled by loot/salvage. So in the end, the afk-miner profits. This is not a high/low/null thing, but a general change. I don't get what positive this part of the change does. It basically rewards afk-gaming.


Interesting point here. The price of rig salvage has already been crushed thanks to exploration. So now we are going to reduce the minerals you get from reprocessing the modules too? Why even have wrecks in missions any more?


Bingo.
That is likely coming soon enough.
First, we lost meta 0 loot.
Then we lost drone alloys.
Now, we lose half the value of the loot left over.
Guess what is next?
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#347 - 2014-03-20 20:06:34 UTC
Bagehi wrote:
Plug in Baby wrote:
Am I correct in thinking the vast majority of Capital manufacture will essentially be stopped by this?

I'm interested to know what % of capitals produced are made from reprocessed ores, I can imagine its pretty massive.

Nope. Just means more runs into low sec because you can't run modules for compression. So you'll have to haul minerals to low sec, compress in a rorqual, haul to destination. Means more gank opportunities in low sec, more risk for producers, and higher capital prices.


You must have stopped reading before the part about the PoS mod that compresses. High Sec ore compression will be possible.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
GreasyCarl Semah
A Game as Old as Empire
#348 - 2014-03-20 20:06:57 UTC
Rukoro Okagima wrote:
Oh so now High/low sec (and btw I no longer mine or produce but I know many who do) miners shouldn't rely on there own stocks they should buy there minerals from there null sec overlords. Bows to the CFC


As a pubbie sh#tlord, you are only allowed to kiss Mittani's left butt cheek. The right is reserved specifically for his friends on the CSM.
Rukoro Okagima
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#349 - 2014-03-20 20:07:34 UTC
Quote:

Bingo.
That is likely coming soon enough.
First, we lost meta 0 loot.
Then we lost drone alloys.
Now, we lose half the value of the loot left over.
Guess what is next?


CCP Bans salvage yay
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#350 - 2014-03-20 20:07:47 UTC
Adellle Nadair wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Berluth Luthian wrote:
Isn't a lot of the nullsec production problem, partly a nullsec culture problem. When alliances are run from the mentality that 'every body in a CTA matters' then you sort of alienate really productive indy pilots. So it is up to null sec 'culture leaders' to empower their own industrial base.


No, the nullsec production problem is caused by hi-sec having utter dominance in every conceivable industry advantage, to the point that the only people doing industry in null are either RPers, supercap builders or just plain bad at maths.

OK some hi bulk, low-value stuff gets built like ratting ammo and cap boosters, but even there the quantities are small compared to what gets imported.


The attitude that nullsec is the only way to play the game and that everyone needs to take part is wrong. It is perfectly acceptable to play and do things in highsec. Highsec should always have the ability to do most things as well as null. That gives more things to do and more ways to play. There are a large amount of players that want to be able to play casually, (relatively) safely and without the drama of nullsec life. Null should have methods to make industry more welcoming, and make it not as hard as it is now to manufacture. But giving nullsec game mechanics that make it impossible to compete in highsec is wrong.


But it's acceptable that hi-sec is the only place that is viable for production, right?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Arthur Trevelyan
Perkone
Caldari State
#351 - 2014-03-20 20:09:11 UTC
These changes are a deathstroke to salvaging as a business!

I've only been a salvager for a short while, but I know that salvaging is a lot more lucrative than other pastimes within EVE. One of the better, more enjoyable ways of making ISK will be lost.

Pro Synergy is a great company for the new capsuleer, they've helped me every time I required it (and not just with salvaging, that is) and you´re willing to condemn a huge amount of new players to a monotone life of mining asteroids, for hours on end (this is what most new players start out as)? These new players will probably end up joining some corporation that provides some ridiculously low income, turning the early game into a grind!

I love the game, CCP, I do, I've enjoyed it from the moment I created my first character, because this game provides something different - a living, breathing universe, filled with players from all over the world. Are you prepared to take the risk of condemning new players to grinds and scraps?

Don't get me wrong, I love scraps - as long as I can make some decent ISK out of it.
Rukoro Okagima
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#352 - 2014-03-20 20:09:43 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Adellle Nadair wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Berluth Luthian wrote:
Isn't a lot of the nullsec production problem, partly a nullsec culture problem. When alliances are run from the mentality that 'every body in a CTA matters' then you sort of alienate really productive indy pilots. So it is up to null sec 'culture leaders' to empower their own industrial base.


No, the nullsec production problem is caused by hi-sec having utter dominance in every conceivable industry advantage, to the point that the only people doing industry in null are either RPers, supercap builders or just plain bad at maths.

OK some hi bulk, low-value stuff gets built like ratting ammo and cap boosters, but even there the quantities are small compared to what gets imported.


The attitude that nullsec is the only way to play the game and that everyone needs to take part is wrong. It is perfectly acceptable to play and do things in highsec. Highsec should always have the ability to do most things as well as null. That gives more things to do and more ways to play. There are a large amount of players that want to be able to play casually, (relatively) safely and without the drama of nullsec life. Null should have methods to make industry more welcoming, and make it not as hard as it is now to manufacture. But giving nullsec game mechanics that make it impossible to compete in highsec is wrong.


But it's acceptable that hi-sec is the only place that is viable for production, right?


So to fix that you make null the only place viable to do production? Can't there be an equal divide.....
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#353 - 2014-03-20 20:11:04 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:

what about outsourcing by simply buying compressed ore ?

I am concerned that with it being pos-only the supply may not match the demand.


Then it will become profitable to compress ore, and it will be worth your time to do it.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#354 - 2014-03-20 20:12:07 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
GreasyCarl Semah wrote:
Grookshank wrote:
What I am implying it, that this is a serious nerve to wreck loot - mostly for new players who miss the skills to blitz. Blitzing is already more efficient than looting/salvaging. So once you have the skills, you won't touch wrecks anyways. The people who are hit are players who rely on salvage/looting. Miners will profit since their efficiency is compensated and the demand will less be filled by loot/salvage. So in the end, the afk-miner profits. This is not a high/low/null thing, but a general change. I don't get what positive this part of the change does. It basically rewards afk-gaming.


Interesting point here. The price of rig salvage has already been crushed thanks to exploration. So now we are going to reduce the minerals you get from reprocessing the modules too? Why even have wrecks in missions any more?


Bingo.
That is likely coming soon enough.
First, we lost meta 0 loot.
Then we lost drone alloys.
Now, we lose half the value of the loot left over.
Guess what is next?


High sec miners have done well from our efforts.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#355 - 2014-03-20 20:12:48 UTC
Rukoro Okagima wrote:
Querns wrote:
Rukoro Okagima wrote:
Quote:
WHO ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME?!? Because mining is not actually needed to build anything, right?


Mining is yes but restricting the profits of it to only those who live in null sov space I feel is a little off

You are aware that with compression available in highsec, profits for highsec miners won't change? You do not, and in fact SHOULD NOT refine ore in highsec unless you intend to build things with it immediately. Even then, it may be a better idea to sell the ore and buy the minerals with the proceeds, as the ore will be worth MORE than the minerals available in highsec!


Oh so now High/low sec (and btw I no longer mine or produce but I know many who do) miners shouldn't rely on there own stocks they should buy there minerals from there null sec overlords. Bows to the CFC

Aha, you are one of those "I mined it, so it's free" types. Carry on, then -- I don't have the patience to try and correct your hilariously awful concepts about how things work.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#356 - 2014-03-20 20:15:47 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Big changes coming! Big smile


Big nerfs to high sec coming.

Fixed it for you.

Can I borrow your tinfoil hat, I been to line the bottom of my grill before I have a barbecue.


Right, so this announcement is not a net nerf to high sec?
And this is apparently just the first of several "big changes", as per the dev''s first post.

The only nerf in this announcement is scrap metal processing. Which TBH needed nerfed anyway.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#357 - 2014-03-20 20:22:36 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:

what about outsourcing by simply buying compressed ore ?

I am concerned that with it being pos-only the supply may not match the demand.


Then it will become profitable to compress ore, and it will be worth your time to do it.

it will literally never be worth MY time to do it, i've seen how much hauling is involved

we're talking endless freighterloads into a pos

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Raquel Smith
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#358 - 2014-03-20 20:23:32 UTC
Marcia en Welle wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
Raquel Smith wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
Quote:
Any item not part of the two categories mentioned earlier (like ships and modules) will only be affected by the Scrapmetal Processing skil


so please disconnect the scrapmetal skill from the other dependencies. New players should not have to waste SP on ore reprocessing skills to be able rise efficiency of module reprocessing.


I did this many, many years ago to get access to Scrapmetal Processing. What a kick in the teeth.


yeah same here. Its one of the skills i am 100% sure i will never need once the change is made since i simple don't mine. Just fix it for the new players at least

Why not just improve it to at least add something other than a minuscule 5% extra. Or is there any particular reason why CCP has gone for the arbitrary value of 55% as the maximum. Increasing it to at least 60% would give some reason to still have the skill.


The skill training isn't the worst part.

I ground missions for Caldari Navy for weeks to get my standing up so I could refine 100% with Scrapmetal Processing III. Training Refining V and Scrapmetal Processing III is, honestly, a drop in the skill training bucket. This character is nearly eight years old and has trained almost non-stop since perhaps with a week total with nothing going.

CCP is touching a part of the game which is sacred: perfect processing; the culmination of weeks of standings grinding married with weeks of skill training. They're setting the bar ridiculously low so just what you've done in your post will happen: pleading to let us have something to show for our time and effort, even if it isn't anywhere close to reflecting the actual time and effort put into the achievement. If CCP is bent on nerfing Scrapmetal Processing we're better off with a more realistic plea: 95%, 97.5%.

Just like every other nerf in the game the playerbase will move on and adapt or quit for new players who don't know better.
Rukoro Okagima
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#359 - 2014-03-20 20:24:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Rukoro Okagima
Querns wrote:
Rukoro Okagima wrote:
Querns wrote:
Rukoro Okagima wrote:
Quote:
WHO ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME?!? Because mining is not actually needed to build anything, right?


Mining is yes but restricting the profits of it to only those who live in null sov space I feel is a little off

You are aware that with compression available in highsec, profits for highsec miners won't change? You do not, and in fact SHOULD NOT refine ore in highsec unless you intend to build things with it immediately. Even then, it may be a better idea to sell the ore and buy the minerals with the proceeds, as the ore will be worth MORE than the minerals available in highsec!


Oh so now High/low sec (and btw I no longer mine or produce but I know many who do) miners shouldn't rely on there own stocks they should buy there minerals from there null sec overlords. Bows to the CFC

Aha, you are one of those "I mined it, so it's free" types. Carry on, then -- I don't have the patience to try and correct your hilariously awful concepts about how things work.


And your one of those I live in null sec so everyone else go.......... so are you not worth my time. No I understand its not free and I will always go for what's most profitable and knowing me I will buy minerals with mineral profits but it seem just a little like screwing some to unscrew others why not try to fix the issue. Tbh I feel null sec should because of the risks have a buff eg like 120% efficiency however I don't think that a player with perfect standings with an npc corp (and perfect refining skills) should have less then 99% efficiency.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#360 - 2014-03-20 20:25:35 UTC
Raquel Smith wrote:

CCP is touching a part of the game which is sacred: perfect processing;

you need to get out more

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.