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Dev Blog: Reprocess all the things!

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Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#321 - 2014-03-20 19:47:14 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Big changes coming! Big smile


Big nerfs to high sec coming.

Fixed it for you.

Can I borrow your tinfoil hat, I been to line the bottom of my grill before I have a barbecue.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Callic Veratar
#322 - 2014-03-20 19:47:51 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Hi-sec will still be a massively better place to do production than 0.0 after this change.

You can complain after CCP
- Remove CONCORD
- Remove all the NPC stations
- Remove the faction police
- Allow cynos, bombs and bubbles to work in hi-sec
- Move datacore production out of hi-sec
- Move BPO sell orders out of hi-sec

While hi-sec still has those monumental advantages, this is basically complaining that the poor kid is getting a cherry while you're eating your way through a giant triple-scoop sundae.


Totally the wrong place for the discussion, but I'd love to see R&D agents and all NPC sell orders disappear. Move them to PI or Starbase modules or whatever.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#323 - 2014-03-20 19:47:55 UTC
Jeremy Soikutsu wrote:

So what are we talking about here? In the situation that null miners were not feeling that they were too good or too chicken **** to mine a belt, it would be the same as high? God forbid.

what we're talking about here is that your idea of what is in a null belt and what is actually in a null belt are two very different things and your ideas are wrong and you should correct them

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Egravant Alduin
Ascendance Rising
Ascendance..
#324 - 2014-03-20 19:48:21 UTC
I like some stuff I read like making ore and minerals output more simple.I mean i was always confused how much mineral will this ore give how much that etc.Don't know though how will affect missioners and salvagers income since I m a member and customer of pro synergy.Also i would like to see in info from what ore the current metal comes.For example how a new player should know tritanium comes from scordite etc.

Feel the wrath of the GECKO!
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#325 - 2014-03-20 19:48:32 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Lipbite wrote:
This is that happens when devs don't develop real content.


Dev's let us make the content, ~sandbox~ remember? You people were all happy about ~sandbox~ when it was nullsec getting nerfed, why not now :allears:.


ArcheAge is sandbox too and it's getting like 50x more content than EVE. It's not about sandbox, it's about CCP selling time sinks instead of content.


It's also not big enough to make major news outlets; exactly what parts of these balance changes are adding time sinks? You do grasp that CCP gives us the tools then we use those to make content right?

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Kadl
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#326 - 2014-03-20 19:48:49 UTC
Grookshank wrote:
So, I might have missed something. But basically now there is more of a loss in the production/reprocessing cycle, which leads too:
1. Loot/Salvage taking a huge hit of about 45-50% in worth.
2. Minerals getting worth more, so more people go afk and bot mining?


1) Loot/Salvage will take a hit of 45% to their mineral prices. Some items are worth more than their minerals.

2) There will be more minerals recovered from ore. All of the changes might lead to similar, higher or lower prices. Are you implying less afk and bot mining if ore prices drop?

There may be more of an emphasis on ore mining, which might result in more afk and bot mining. The locations of mining might change so that Null Sec empires have more, and their miners might afk or bot according to the acceptance of the sov holders and the enforcement by CCP. Enforcement against botting looks like a separate although linked issue. Perhaps CCP should keep an eye on botting in sov holder areas while they move forward on these good changes.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#327 - 2014-03-20 19:51:54 UTC
Ashla Boga wrote:
"Keep Calm and Carry On"?

Damn it CCP. You're trying to kill the profit of hundreds of salvagers and hundreds of missioners just revolving around Pro Synergy alone. One corp. You're screwing with things that are just going to backfire and increase botting. Everyone wants more bots, right?

You killed drone poo which was a huge spike through the heart of the salvaging community, and gave us bounties on drones instead, which I agree missioners were in love with (despite salvagers losing a lot of profit). Then you removed Meta 0 modules from rat droppings because there was too many minerals in your eyes. Now this.

"Calm down, Mr Director of Salvage Corp Person, it's just a game." Hell no. I'm fired up and pissed off because you're going to decrease profits of new and veteran players salvaging and their missioner friends by obscene amounts with not even the slightest compensation. Even with Scrapmetal V and a 4% implant the yields are going to be crap. Rig changes have done almost nothing to increase profits from the salvaging profession, and behind every Noctis is a real live player. Not a program.

You say you want to reward players who specialize in a career, and ore miners and ice miners are going to be unaffected by this. But module reprocessors like myself and a dozen other faithful admins of the corp have absolutely NO POSSIBLE WAY to get even remotely close to 100% yield. Even if you added an Advanced Scrapmetal Reprocessing we'd still be far off. That's not helping a specialized player, it's slapping them in the F***ing face. Our admins have trained OVER a month of skills to be the best at what they do for their customers, but not that will all be way more than wasted. Ore miners didn't have to go anywhere near this kind of training to be 100%. Dig a little deeper before you go killing professions off, CCP.



I have to agree with this guy. Past efforts to increase the value of mining has only lead to a devaluing of income from players who actually play the game and an increase in the incentive for large Coalitions to lock down huge sections of null sec and make sure that very little of it is used and then have large scale mining bot operations deep in blue territory. I saw this first hand in scalding pass a few years ago with that Russian prince who got outted with that RMT scandal back then and I doubt a whole bunch has changed since then.

These changes will only further alienate and discourage actual players and further incentivise bots.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
GreasyCarl Semah
A Game as Old as Empire
#328 - 2014-03-20 19:52:40 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Anhenka wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

It will be interesting how much the cartels will be telling people how to play the game when Star Citizen, or some other similar game, hits the market.


Same thing that happens whenever another shiney new game comes along. A lot of the old bittervets will dissapear for a few weeks, then reappear again.

It happens for EVER SINGLE new good looking multiplayer game.

But we have been playing this game for years already, we will return, as always.


Yup, keep believing that.
One day, they might not come back.


I just like how Dinsdale, labeled a fruitcake by many, turns out to be right more often than not. Here we are again, with CCP catering to the null sec groups. Meanwhile the null babies cry about "carebears" ruining the game. I love it.
John Frohike
Revival.
OnlyFleets.
#329 - 2014-03-20 19:53:22 UTC
And now I get to laugh at all the people who told me it was a waste of time to max out my refining skills!
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#330 - 2014-03-20 19:54:26 UTC
I will lament the temporary loss of income, but I am overall excited. This may lead to an increase in mining demand in null sec alliances (where I currently am) as well as an increased need for Rorq support (which is something I want to do). So overall, I'm happy. Just hope the dev teams take several passes over the numbers before release to make sure everything balances out properly.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#331 - 2014-03-20 19:55:20 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:

I have to agree with this guy. Past efforts to increase the value of mining has only lead to a devaluing of income from players who actually play the game and an increase in the incentive for large Coalitions to lock down huge sections of null sec and make sure that very little of it is used and then have large scale mining bot operations deep in blue territory. I saw this first hand in scalding pass a few years ago with that Russian prince who got outted with that RMT scandal back then and I doubt a whole bunch has changed since then.

These changes will only further alienate and discourage actual players and further incentivise bots.

So what you're saying is that no professions in the game should ever be made to be more lucrative, because the BOT ARMY will descend upon it?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Rukoro Okagima
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#332 - 2014-03-20 19:55:21 UTC
Ok I'm fairly new only been playing about a year and a half of which I spent a lot of it mining. Basically this seems to suggest that null sec production will eventually become the cheapest and most profitable so with the way thing look [sorry N3]CFC and their renters will control all production specifically low sec production will become redundant. And those of us who salvager wrecks might as well start mining because loot won't be worth.......

CCP I have read and understood so many of your changes over the last year, yes the Extra Minerals factor really annoyed me but I got over it hopefully I'll get over this but why may I ask or even better what do you gain by putting low sec capital production and salvagers out a job what reason do you have for doing this but if your insistent of doing it can you refund all players who bought salvagers and there blueprints oh and can you lower the mineral amount for the Noctis as it will of lost half its purpose.

I may of got the wrong end of the stick but I don't live in null and that's that oh and btw potential haters I live in low sec not this toon of course as he's being sold.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#333 - 2014-03-20 19:56:05 UTC
Wow this is crazy. That's a pretty big change. I guess I have to figure out what all this means. Looks pretty cool though...

Signatures should be used responsibly...
John Frohike
Revival.
OnlyFleets.
#334 - 2014-03-20 19:56:14 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Ashla Boga wrote:
"Keep Calm and Carry On"?

Damn it CCP. You're trying to kill the profit of hundreds of salvagers and hundreds of missioners just revolving around Pro Synergy alone. One corp. You're screwing with things that are just going to backfire and increase botting. Everyone wants more bots, right?

You killed drone poo which was a huge spike through the heart of the salvaging community, and gave us bounties on drones instead, which I agree missioners were in love with (despite salvagers losing a lot of profit). Then you removed Meta 0 modules from rat droppings because there was too many minerals in your eyes. Now this.

"Calm down, Mr Director of Salvage Corp Person, it's just a game." Hell no. I'm fired up and pissed off because you're going to decrease profits of new and veteran players salvaging and their missioner friends by obscene amounts with not even the slightest compensation. Even with Scrapmetal V and a 4% implant the yields are going to be crap. Rig changes have done almost nothing to increase profits from the salvaging profession, and behind every Noctis is a real live player. Not a program.

You say you want to reward players who specialize in a career, and ore miners and ice miners are going to be unaffected by this. But module reprocessors like myself and a dozen other faithful admins of the corp have absolutely NO POSSIBLE WAY to get even remotely close to 100% yield. Even if you added an Advanced Scrapmetal Reprocessing we'd still be far off. That's not helping a specialized player, it's slapping them in the F***ing face. Our admins have trained OVER a month of skills to be the best at what they do for their customers, but not that will all be way more than wasted. Ore miners didn't have to go anywhere near this kind of training to be 100%. Dig a little deeper before you go killing professions off, CCP.



I have to agree with this guy. Past efforts to increase the value of mining has only lead to a devaluing of income from players who actually play the game and an increase in the incentive for large Coalitions to lock down huge sections of null sec and make sure that very little of it is used and then have large scale mining bot operations deep in blue territory. I saw this first hand in scalding pass a few years ago with that Russian prince who got outted with that RMT scandal back then and I doubt a whole bunch has changed since then.

These changes will only further alienate and discourage actual players and further incentivise bots.


WHO ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME?!? Because mining is not actually needed to build anything, right?
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#335 - 2014-03-20 19:58:02 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:

I have to agree with this guy. Past efforts to increase the value of mining has only lead to a devaluing of income from players who actually play the game and an increase in the incentive for large Coalitions to lock down huge sections of null sec and make sure that very little of it is used and then have large scale mining bot operations deep in blue territory. I saw this first hand in scalding pass a few years ago with that Russian prince who got outted with that RMT scandal back then and I doubt a whole bunch has changed since then.

These changes will only further alienate and discourage actual players and further incentivise bots.

what kind of nutjob thinks we conquer space for the mining

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Rukoro Okagima
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#336 - 2014-03-20 19:59:26 UTC
Quote:
WHO ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME?!? Because mining is not actually needed to build anything, right?


Mining is yes but restricting the profits of it to only those who live in null sov space I feel is a little off
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#337 - 2014-03-20 19:59:35 UTC
Quote:
I have to agree with this guy. Past efforts to increase the value of mining has only lead to a devaluing of income from players who actually play the game and an increase in the incentive for large Coalitions to lock down huge sections of null sec and make sure that very little of it is used and then have large scale mining bot operations deep in blue territory. I saw this first hand in scalding pass a few years ago with that Russian prince who got outted with that RMT scandal back then and I doubt a whole bunch has changed since then.

These changes will only further alienate and discourage actual players and further incentivise bots.


you just completely obliterated the scale on my bullshit-o-meter
Grookshank
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#338 - 2014-03-20 19:59:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Grookshank
Kadl wrote:
Grookshank wrote:
So, I might have missed something. But basically now there is more of a loss in the production/reprocessing cycle, which leads too:
1. Loot/Salvage taking a huge hit of about 45-50% in worth.
2. Minerals getting worth more, so more people go afk and bot mining?


1) Loot/Salvage will take a hit of 45% to their mineral prices. Some items are worth more than their minerals.

2) There will be more minerals recovered from ore. All of the changes might lead to similar, higher or lower prices. Are you implying less afk and bot mining if ore prices drop?

There may be more of an emphasis on ore mining, which might result in more afk and bot mining. The locations of mining might change so that Null Sec empires have more, and their miners might afk or bot according to the acceptance of the sov holders and the enforcement by CCP. Enforcement against botting looks like a separate although linked issue. Perhaps CCP should keep an eye on botting in sov holder areas while they move forward on these good changes.


What I am implying it, that this is a serious nerve to wreck loot - mostly for new players who miss the skills to blitz. Blitzing is already more efficient than looting/salvaging. So once you have the skills, you won't touch wrecks anyways. The people who are hit are players who rely on salvage/looting. Miners will profit since their efficiency is compensated and the demand will less be filled by loot/salvage. So in the end, the afk-miner profits. This is not a high/low/null thing, but a general change. I don't get what positive this part of the change does. It basically rewards afk-gaming.
JackEuchre
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#339 - 2014-03-20 20:00:40 UTC
I can already see the null sec blocks adjusting their renter agreements to increase rates. Hard to imagine why all the Null Sec Cartels are defending this every 3rd post while those who live in Low and High Sec are basically complaining. This is a net nerf for the high sec playground that most casual players come to enjoy. It hits mission income, mining income and production income when refining rates in outposts controlled by the cartels produce more minerals, resultiing in lower cost of production as compared to those who choose to play in high sec. The idea then is that high sec corps well think that maybe they can go to null and decide to rent from CFC or some other cartel. These cartels aren't going to do a bit of mining. This is just another way to increase their double your isk SRP program they run through more rental contracts and higher rates. It must be nice to have CCP kissing your collective behinds every new announced patch. Why even bother....It's obvoius CCP = CFC.
Rukoro Okagima
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#340 - 2014-03-20 20:00:47 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
ergherhdfgh wrote:

I have to agree with this guy. Past efforts to increase the value of mining has only lead to a devaluing of income from players who actually play the game and an increase in the incentive for large Coalitions to lock down huge sections of null sec and make sure that very little of it is used and then have large scale mining bot operations deep in blue territory. I saw this first hand in scalding pass a few years ago with that Russian prince who got outted with that RMT scandal back then and I doubt a whole bunch has changed since then.

These changes will only further alienate and discourage actual players and further incentivise bots.

what kind of nutjob thinks we conquer space for the mining


Ore mining you don't but now you might, Moon mining yeah you do don't lie :P