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Dev Blog: Reprocess all the things!

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Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#301 - 2014-03-20 19:36:12 UTC
mkint wrote:
There are no changes that can possibly be made to the game to bring industrialists to nullsec, because there will always be an us vs them. A budding industrialist who wants to move to nullsec has no place in an existing alliance there, because what he really wants is power. And power is horded in nullsec. It's what the entire meta game is about. It's what having CSM voting blocs is about. And it's a closed game to anyone who's not already a part of it.


i'd just like to laugh again at the idea that if you want power what you should be is a highsec industrialist

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Grookshank
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#302 - 2014-03-20 19:36:21 UTC
So, I might have missed something. But basically now there is more of a loss in the production/reprocessing cycle, which leads too:
1. Loot/Salvage taking a huge hit of about 45-50% in worth.
2. Minerals getting worth more, so more people go afk and bot mining?
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#303 - 2014-03-20 19:37:42 UTC
RomeStar wrote:
Anhenka wrote:
Adellle Nadair wrote:
The attitude that nullsec is the only way to play the game and that everyone needs to take part is wrong. It is perfectly acceptable to play and do things in highsec. Highsec should always have the ability to do most things as well as null. That gives more things to do and more ways to play. There are a large amount of players that want to be able to play casually, (relatively) safely and without the drama of nullsec life. Null should have methods to make industry more welcoming, and make it not as hard as it is now to manufacture. But giving nullsec game mechanics that make it impossible to compete in highsec is wrong.


Those who spend the massive amount of time, isk, and effort to acquire and hold nullsec sov, then dump dozens of billions of isk into a refining station. then haul ore out or mine it locally most certainly deserve a definate advantage over highsec.


Then why not get rid of high sec completely since they deserve nothing in your opinion. Yeah thats going to bring in alot of new players but who cares we dont need them anyways right. This is CCP telling its player base how to play the sandbox game.


It will be interesting how much the cartels will be telling people how to play the game when Star Citizen, or some other similar game, hits the market.
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#304 - 2014-03-20 19:38:14 UTC
Grookshank wrote:
So, I might have missed something. But basically now there is more of a loss in the production/reprocessing cycle, which leads too:
1. Loot/Salvage taking a huge hit of about 45-50% in worth.
2. Minerals getting worth more, so more people go afk and bot mining?

1: Yes.
2: Not really, yield is being increased to compensate.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#305 - 2014-03-20 19:38:58 UTC
Just a small note:

I'd typoed on the formula for refining. I've corrected the spreadsheet now. (and added in for refining implants)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#306 - 2014-03-20 19:39:13 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
It will be interesting how much the cartels will be telling people how to play the game when Star Citizen, or some other similar game, hits the market.

and in 2020, we'll consider it

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#307 - 2014-03-20 19:39:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Lipbite
La Nariz wrote:
Lipbite wrote:
This is that happens when devs don't develop real content.


Dev's let us make the content, ~sandbox~ remember? You people were all happy about ~sandbox~ when it was nullsec getting nerfed, why not now :allears:.


ArcheAge is sandbox too and it's getting like 50x more content than EVE. It's not about sandbox, it's about CCP selling time sinks instead of content.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#308 - 2014-03-20 19:39:50 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

It will be interesting how much the cartels will be telling people how to play the game when Star Citizen, or some other similar game, hits the market.

Ah yes, Star Citizen, the Eve killer. Let's take a sneak peek into some exciting Star Citizen gameplay footage:

http://i.imgur.com/pHvNNlk.gif

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#309 - 2014-03-20 19:40:19 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

It will be interesting how much the cartels will be telling people how to play the game when Star Citizen, or some other similar game, hits the market.


Same thing that happens whenever another shiney new game comes along. A lot of the old bittervets will dissapear for a few weeks, then reappear again.

It happens for EVER SINGLE new good looking multiplayer game.

But we have been playing this game for years already, we will return, as always.
Grookshank
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#310 - 2014-03-20 19:41:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Grookshank
Anhenka wrote:
Grookshank wrote:
So, I might have missed something. But basically now there is more of a loss in the production/reprocessing cycle, which leads too:
1. Loot/Salvage taking a huge hit of about 45-50% in worth.
2. Minerals getting worth more, so more people go afk and bot mining?

1: Yes.
2: Not really, yield is being increased to compensate.

Well, the increased yield only compensates for miners. Once something is built out of materials, there will be a much bigger loss than before, which will increase demand for ores, since minerals are lost in the cycle.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#311 - 2014-03-20 19:41:37 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Big changes coming! Big smile


Big nerfs to high sec coming.

Fixed it for you.
Joanna RB
JoJo Industries n Shipbreakers
#312 - 2014-03-20 19:41:48 UTC
Does this now mean that an unimproved Minmatar outpost now is totally USELESS compared to the other races unimproved outposts, since its only advantage, the refinery, is now given to all 4 outposts at the same level?
Snowflake Tem
The Order of Symbolic Measures
#313 - 2014-03-20 19:42:22 UTC
Corpses to biomass, perchance?
Just a suggestion, but you could take this opportunity to add to the processing list:
Lots of orphaned database items out there folks.

And thank you for making a real profound difference. Sincerely.
Jeremy Soikutsu
Kite Co. Space Trucking
#314 - 2014-03-20 19:42:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeremy Soikutsu
Querns wrote:
Jeremy Soikutsu wrote:
Emilia Istis wrote:
as you know there is a little veldspar in null

Have you ever even been in a null belt?

Also because of people saying **** like this null ores were jammed full of low-ends, so cram it.

The reason asteroids are so large in nullsec belts is because no one mines them. If for some ungodly reason you were daft enough to actually mine a regular asteroid belt over a mining anomaly (or perhaps as a function of bootstrapping an industrial index,) you would quickly exhaust the inflated asteroid, and it would return to regenerating at the normal rate.

So what are we talking about here? In the situation that null miners were not feeling that they were too good or too chicken **** to mine a belt, it would be the same as high? God forbid.

"Of course you would choose the fun, but you don't lead a relevant entity which has allies." - Colonel Xaven
GreasyCarl Semah
A Game as Old as Empire
#315 - 2014-03-20 19:42:56 UTC
Right now there is no mining to speak of in null sec outside of the null sec power blocs. And I got a pile of ISK that says that long after this change is made there will still be no mining in null sec. CCP's long term goal is to have an economy in null sec that isn't on life support. They have already made changes to ore yield to entice people to mine in null and that didn't work. Now we buff refining to try to do the same thing. You can dangle that carrot in front of the horse from now until doomsday and I hate to tell you guys but the horse just isn't going to bite. However, you can guarantee that large organized groups of players will take full advantage to wreck the economy at every opportunity. Is more market collusion and manipulation really what this game needs?

There are a lot of good ideas in this blog. I can see the changes to refining to stress reprocessing skills, as those skills are basically useless at the moment. The batch volume changes to ore make sense. Disabling the mechanic that people use for compression makes sense and there should be an in game solution that takes the place of that mechanic. Making the Rorqual better has been needed for a long, long time. But buffing null/low sec refining is the dumbest idea I have heard in a long, long time. And that says a lot because I read this forum every day.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#316 - 2014-03-20 19:43:18 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

It will be interesting how much the cartels will be telling people how to play the game when Star Citizen, or some other similar game, hits the market.


Same thing that happens whenever another shiney new game comes along. A lot of the old bittervets will dissapear for a few weeks, then reappear again.

It happens for EVER SINGLE new good looking multiplayer game.

But we have been playing this game for years already, we will return, as always.


Yup, keep believing that.
One day, they might not come back.
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#317 - 2014-03-20 19:43:41 UTC
Grookshank wrote:
Anhenka wrote:
Grookshank wrote:
So, I might have missed something. But basically now there is more of a loss in the production/reprocessing cycle, which leads too:
1. Loot/Salvage taking a huge hit of about 45-50% in worth.
2. Minerals getting worth more, so more people go afk and bot mining?

1: Yes.
2: Not really, yield is being increased to compensate.

Well, the increased yield only compensates for miners. Once something is built out of materials, there will be a much bigger loss than before, which will increase demand for ores, since minerals are lost in the cycle.


Nobody will bother refining something after building it. I certainly wont, and I have a Scrapmetal V Char that's soon to be worthless.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#318 - 2014-03-20 19:46:31 UTC
Jeremy Soikutsu wrote:
Querns wrote:
Jeremy Soikutsu wrote:
Emilia Istis wrote:
as you know there is a little veldspar in null

Have you ever even been in a null belt?

Also because of people saying **** like this null ores were jammed full of low-ends, so cram it.

The reason asteroids are so large in nullsec belts is because no one mines them. If for some ungodly reason you were daft enough to actually mine a regular asteroid belt over a mining anomaly (or perhaps as a function of bootstrapping an industrial index,) you would quickly exhaust the inflated asteroid, and it would return to regenerating at the normal rate.

So what are we talking about here? In the situation that null miners were not feeling that they were too good or too chicken **** to mine a belt, it would be the same as high? God forbid.

Well, aside from the exact asteroid types, yeah. Nearly all the ore mining that goes on in nullsec is done in upgraded systems and in mining anomalies spawned as a function of those upgrades.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#319 - 2014-03-20 19:46:49 UTC
Joanna RB wrote:
Does this now mean that an unimproved Minmatar outpost now is totally USELESS compared to the other races unimproved outposts, since its only advantage, the refinery, is now given to all 4 outposts at the same level?



It means that an /improved/ Minmater outpost is worth significantly more (wrt refining)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#320 - 2014-03-20 19:46:55 UTC
mkint wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Berluth Luthian wrote:
Isn't a lot of the nullsec production problem, partly a nullsec culture problem. When alliances are run from the mentality that 'every body in a CTA matters' then you sort of alienate really productive indy pilots. So it is up to null sec 'culture leaders' to empower their own industrial base.


No, the nullsec production problem is caused by hi-sec having utter dominance in every conceivable industry advantage, to the point that the only people doing industry in null are either RPers, supercap builders or just plain bad at maths.

OK some hi bulk, low-value stuff gets built like ratting ammo and cap boosters, but even there the quantities are small compared to what gets imported.


Numbers come into play, yes. But you're forgetting one important thing... Nullsec would be great if it weren't for the people who live there. The people who like industry type stuff, don't like the kind of people who like to live in nullsec. The people who like to live in nullsec are joiners, followers, anti-entrepreneurs. People who want to do industry have a vision of themselves as forging their own path, creating something, finding the secret levers to make themselves powerful. What the budding industrialists don't realize right away is that even if all the mechanics were in place for them to be able to do unimpeded industry in nullsec is that it's trivially easy for any of the nullbear follower joiners to just roll and indy alt to fill their own needs.

There are no changes that can possibly be made to the game to bring industrialists to nullsec, because there will always be an us vs them. A budding industrialist who wants to move to nullsec has no place in an existing alliance there, because what he really wants is power. And power is horded in nullsec. It's what the entire meta game is about. It's what having CSM voting blocs is about. And it's a closed game to anyone who's not already a part of it.


Holy made up bullshit massive sweeping generalisations, Batman!

Do you think no "nullsec" players engage in industry? I can 100% assure you that we do.

And we do it in hi-sec, with alts.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016