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Dev Blog: Reprocess all the things!

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Joshua Foiritain
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#61 - 2014-03-20 15:35:49 UTC
Any chance we could see gas compression as well? Gas miners feel left out :(

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Zifrian
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2014-03-20 15:36:06 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
There was a discussion on whereas player Outposts or Starbase Reprocessing Arrays should come out on top of the reprocessing race - so far we prefer Outpost to have the better rates since it's significantly more expensive to fully upgrade a Minmatar outpost to the last improvement.

But in all cases, Starbase Reprocessing Arrays are better than NPC stations. As mentioned before, we have authored the Starbase Reprocessing Array as if you had perfect skills; so in reality they give you a 75.3% and 78.1% reprocesing rate.

I agree with this thinking completely. Thanks

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MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#63 - 2014-03-20 15:37:51 UTC
Xayo 204 wrote:
brb relisting some caps...



Max refine rate you can get on 425mm rails is 55% now? O god what did you do..? all those poor cap builders will need to do so many extra trips.



too many caps anyways... maybe this will help localalize mining to the place caps are built?

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Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#64 - 2014-03-20 15:39:19 UTC
One word: SWEET.

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CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#65 - 2014-03-20 15:39:31 UTC
Ms Michigan wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:

But in all cases, Starbase Reprocessing Arrays are better than NPC stations. As mentioned before, we have authored the Starbase Reprocessing Array as if you had perfect skills; so in reality they give you a 75.3% and 78.1% reprocesing rate.

I'm not understanding how, with perfect refining your chart says that you will refine in an NPC station @ 72.4% and starbase refining will be at 52/54% where is the extra 23% of yield coming from?


Ore amount increases? I am losing this point as well...


That's ok, I'm apparently very good at confusing people.

NPC station base reprocessing rate can either be 35% or 50%. After the change, with max skills and the implant you will get 72.4% from a 50% base NPC station.

However, we wanted base Reprocessing Array rates to be higher than NPC stations, thus at 52 and 54%. However, since skills are not taken into account for those, we set them up to artificially count as if you have max skills + implant, thus giving them 75.3% and 78.1%.

Outposts will still be on top of those, with a base rate of 60% when fulling upgraded. As such, with max skills and the implant you'll get a maximum reprocessing rate of 86.8% there.

Is that less confusing now? P
Juliette Asanari
Voodoo Children
#66 - 2014-03-20 15:40:18 UTC
Aside from other effects mentioned in this thread, the price of a lot of meta 1->3 items is going to plumet, since their value is mostly derived from their reprocessed materials. Any hike in mineral prices is very unlikely to compensate for a 45-50% loss in minerals, since the size of that mineral hike is very dependend on the amount of minerals injected into the mineral market via module repro vs. the amount injected via mining.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2014-03-20 15:40:59 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:


We all know that a lot of them make money from mining, processing and then selling the minerals or making stuff. If we undermine their ability to do this how many of them are going to stay around and get more into the game?



which really is by far the most boring activity in eve. i guess more people quit because mining is boring than anything else.

(sadly) there are plenty people around that will buy ore or support newbie miners in mining corps.

Ereshgikal
Wharf Crusaders
#68 - 2014-03-20 15:43:35 UTC
Will the consumption of Heavy Water during compression be removed / changed / remain? Not seeing anything in the devblog that indicates that there will be a consumption of it at all.

Stealth buff to compression?
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#69 - 2014-03-20 15:43:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Weaselior
You've made a mistake, here:

Quote:
As such, to keep ratio fairly identical, we are going to boost all minerals and ice products gained by reprocessing ores and ices approximately by 38.1% (1/0.724). This will apply to all the unrefined alchemy material as well.


Because alchemy uses scrapmetal which is getting nerfed, you need to boost it by its own percentage (instead of the ore percentage) to get it back to where it is now.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Ms Michigan
Aviation Professionals for EVE
#70 - 2014-03-20 15:43:56 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Ms Michigan wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:

But in all cases, Starbase Reprocessing Arrays are better than NPC stations. As mentioned before, we have authored the Starbase Reprocessing Array as if you had perfect skills; so in reality they give you a 75.3% and 78.1% reprocesing rate.

I'm not understanding how, with perfect refining your chart says that you will refine in an NPC station @ 72.4% and starbase refining will be at 52/54% where is the extra 23% of yield coming from?


Ore amount increases? I am losing this point as well...


That's ok, I'm apparently very good at confusing people.

NPC station base reprocessing rate can either be 35% or 50%. After the change, with max skills and the implant you will get 72.4% from a 50% base NPC station.

However, we wanted base Reprocessing Array rates to be higher than NPC stations, thus at 52 and 54%. However, since skills are not taken into account for those, we set them up to artificially count as if you have max skills + implant, thus giving them 75.3% and 78.1%.

Outposts will still be on top of those, with a base rate of 60% when fulling upgraded. As such, with max skills and the implant you'll get a maximum reprocessing rate of 86.8% there.

Is that less confusing now? P


Gotcha! Thanks.

Yeah I missed the part where arrays still didn't take into account skills.
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#71 - 2014-03-20 15:44:04 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Big changes coming! Big smile
I sincerely hope this means that you guys are reducing the current clickfest that is involved with Industry.

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Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2014-03-20 15:44:31 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Ms Michigan wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:

But in all cases, Starbase Reprocessing Arrays are better than NPC stations. As mentioned before, we have authored the Starbase Reprocessing Array as if you had perfect skills; so in reality they give you a 75.3% and 78.1% reprocesing rate.

I'm not understanding how, with perfect refining your chart says that you will refine in an NPC station @ 72.4% and starbase refining will be at 52/54% where is the extra 23% of yield coming from?


Ore amount increases? I am losing this point as well...


That's ok, I'm apparently very good at confusing people.

NPC station base reprocessing rate can either be 35% or 50%. After the change, with max skills and the implant you will get 72.4% from a 50% base NPC station.

However, we wanted base Reprocessing Array rates to be higher than NPC stations, thus at 52 and 54%. However, since skills are not taken into account for those, we set them up to artificially count as if you have max skills + implant, thus giving them 75.3% and 78.1%.

Outposts will still be on top of those, with a base rate of 60% when fulling upgraded. As such, with max skills and the implant you'll get a maximum reprocessing rate of 86.8% there.

Is that less confusing now? P

So the 52/54% is the "base" refining rate for refining arrays and the final rate is with free skill buffs added in? If so that makes more sense.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Tharin Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
#73 - 2014-03-20 15:45:02 UTC
Oof. I've spent the last few months hitting the Refining skills hard and grinding mining missions, trying to get the most out of my mission runner's scrap loot and my miner's ore/ice. I was going to start offering a service to my small corp for said refining.

So if I'm reading this right, all scrapmetal reprocessing is going to take a dive in output, and if I want to get the max refining I have right now, I need to set up a POS and buy a hilariously expensive implant? Oof. Kind of fun that I could compress though, without a Rorqual.

I see the logic, and I'm interested to see the changes, but overall: ow.

Also: how can you justify making a Starbase array skill agnostic, when the rest of your blog is so intent on scaling the playing field by skill level and time investment?

I do love the mock-up for the new Reprocessing window and the streamlining of 'units to refine'. Do that :)
Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#74 - 2014-03-20 15:45:10 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Xayo 204 wrote:
brb relisting some caps...



Max refine rate you can get on 425mm rails is 55% now? O god what did you do..? all those poor cap builders will need to do so many extra trips.



too many caps anyways... maybe this will help localalize mining to the place caps are built?


well this is a rather obvious attempt to undermine the high sec domination of mineral production. I expect the entire economy to have collapsed a few weeks after this change happens.

Why?

well lets look at it this way, people sell the ore now not the minerals themselves since for the most part their getting less of them without a lot of skill training. This benefits a small group of players who have high level of refining skills trained and own high sec refining POSs. This new syndicate of players work together to force the market price up since there are less cheaper alternatives coming into the market. The result is both miners and builders suffer while this new middleman gets rich and the overall economy suffers.
Berluth Luthian
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2014-03-20 15:46:59 UTC
Don't some FW stations get special reprocessing bonuses based on upgrade level?
Javajunky
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2014-03-20 15:47:17 UTC
While you're looking at reprocessing/compression is there anyway you could change the default location where the UI looks for Ore to be in the ore cargo on the Rorqual.

Right now if you right click on a the Arkanor BPO and you click manufacturer, it opens up a default of the fleet hangar (where these are normally stored) and then you have to select different locations. This seems like extra clicks that should be streamlined where the compression should default to the ore hangar at all times. Just throwing it out there as a suggest. Less carpal tunnel in industry means more carpal tunnel in other things.
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#77 - 2014-03-20 15:48:23 UTC
Hell yes

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2014-03-20 15:48:48 UTC
Xayo 204 wrote:
brb relisting some caps...



Max refine rate you can get on 425mm rails is 55% now? O god what did you do..? all those poor cap builders will need to do so many extra trips.


you forgot the part where you can now compress minerals in a POS mod everywhere or a rorqual in low/null/wh space. compressed minerals will take the role 425mm railguns have today
Plug in Baby
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2014-03-20 15:49:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Plug in Baby
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Ms Michigan wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:

But in all cases, Starbase Reprocessing Arrays are better than NPC stations. As mentioned before, we have authored the Starbase Reprocessing Array as if you had perfect skills; so in reality they give you a 75.3% and 78.1% reprocesing rate.

I'm not understanding how, with perfect refining your chart says that you will refine in an NPC station @ 72.4% and starbase refining will be at 52/54% where is the extra 23% of yield coming from?


Ore amount increases? I am losing this point as well...


That's ok, I'm apparently very good at confusing people.

NPC station base reprocessing rate can either be 35% or 50%. After the change, with max skills and the implant you will get 72.4% from a 50% base NPC station.

However, we wanted base Reprocessing Array rates to be higher than NPC stations, thus at 52 and 54%. However, since skills are not taken into account for those, we set them up to artificially count as if you have max skills + implant, thus giving them 75.3% and 78.1%.

Outposts will still be on top of those, with a base rate of 60% when fulling upgraded. As such, with max skills and the implant you'll get a maximum reprocessing rate of 86.8% there.

Is that less confusing now? P



So building capitals is now the domain of sov holders as well as supers. How can anyone else compete in the market losing 27.6% when everyone in null is losing only 13.2% .

I honestly can't see how there will be any margin>

Look at the Moros
Current Cost: 1930m
New Sov Cost: 2185m
New NPC Cost: 2463m

Difference: 278m

How can anyone compete with the sov holders when they will have a 280m margin?

This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#80 - 2014-03-20 15:51:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
You are really desperate to drive people out of high sec, aren't you? Roll

--

Plug in Baby wrote:
So building capitals is now the domain of sov holders as well as supers. How can anyone else compete in the market losing 27.6% when everyone in null is losing only 13.2% .

I honestly can't see how there will be any margin>

Look at the Moros
Current Cost: 1930m
New Sov Cost: 2185m
New NPC Cost: 2463m

Difference: 278m

How can anyone compete with the sov holders when they will have a 280m margin?


You are not supposed to compete with sov holders; in fact, you are supposed to be dependent on them and their whims. Nothing else...

UI Improvement Collective

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