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Dev Blog: Reprocess all the things!

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Javajunky
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2014-03-20 15:18:21 UTC
+1

Buying compressed ore and hauling it will be easier than buying the minerals and building guns. I haven't torn through all the numbers yet but this should make things a little more easier in terms of in game time spent doing silly shlt.

Looking forward breaking out the spreadsheets on this data after work.
Jagoff Haverford
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2014-03-20 15:19:37 UTC
As someone who has done my fair share of bitching about changes made by CCP, I'm delighted by these changes. I'm sure there will be tweaks done here and there with the numbers, but the key thing is that refining in perfect safety within high sec stations will no longer be far better than refining in more dangerous places.

In keeping with the Rubicon theme, I think that the empires should also begin charging higher taxes in the high sec space that they control. Not only should the base tax rates go up, but the standing required to get optimal refining should be increased as well.

That might get some high sec panties in a bunch, I admit, but it should cost more to live in places where there are multiple stations in each system, stations contain both refineries and factory slots, and the police are out in force to punish anyone who shoots at you.

I also say this because these tax rates matter, and can be a draw for players to move outside of the safety and boredom of high sec. One of the things that pushed me into null sec several years ago was a large upward change to NPC Customs Office taxes. In an effort to avoid them, I found a group that was taking over a single system in null sec, and was promising a zero POCO tax rate for all my PI needs. The policy and the corp and the alliance didn't last long, but the seed was planted and I've lived in various parts of null ever since.
Wibla
Tactical Narcotics Team
#43 - 2014-03-20 15:20:17 UTC
Quote:
Player-built outposts are currently very biased regarding reprocessing. Minmatar outposts have a default 50% output and all others have 30%. Currently there is not much of a choice on that regard.


Minmatar outposts have a base rate of 35%, no?

Not many minmatar stations will be upgraded past the first level (currently giving 40% base yield and perfect refine/reproc with good skills and/or implants).
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#44 - 2014-03-20 15:20:25 UTC
A dev blog without graphs is not a proper dev blog Sad

The UI mockup looks great, something similar would be nice for the Science and Industry interface, which has been the bane of industrialists everywhere for years Attention

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#45 - 2014-03-20 15:20:36 UTC
Quote:
Any item not part of the two categories mentioned earlier (like ships and modules) will only be affected by the Scrapmetal Processing skil


so please disconnect the scrapmetal skill from the other dependencies. New players should not have to waste SP on ore reprocessing skills to be able rise efficiency of module reprocessing.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#46 - 2014-03-20 15:20:44 UTC
Since i am not much into industry can someone explain me few things.

Can someone say in short did lowsec in any way get a buff from all of this.?
And how i get perfect reprocessing rates in lowsec?

Tnx

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Bagehi
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#47 - 2014-03-20 15:20:57 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Bagehi wrote:
Plug in Baby wrote:
Am I correct in thinking the vast majority of Capital manufacture will essentially be stopped by this?

I'm interested to know what % of capitals produced are made from reprocessed ores, I can imagine its pretty massive.

Nope. Just means more runs into low sec because you can't run modules for compression. So you'll have to haul minerals to low sec, compress in a rorqual, haul to destination. Means more gank opportunities in low sec, more risk for producers, and higher capital prices.



Nope.

You missed that the compression array can be stuck in a Highsec POS (and WH for that matter). So you can skip the Rorqual (Unless you're using it for hauling)

Ah. Good point. So, either a rorqual or you have to maintain a highsec POS. Highsec POS is probably preferable since the fewer runs into lowsec in freighters, the better.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2014-03-20 15:21:14 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:

But in all cases, Starbase Reprocessing Arrays are better than NPC stations. As mentioned before, we have authored the Starbase Reprocessing Array as if you had perfect skills; so in reality they give you a 75.3% and 78.1% reprocesing rate.

I'm not understanding how, with perfect refining your chart says that you will refine in an NPC station @ 72.4% and starbase refining will be at 52/54% where is the extra 23% of yield coming from?

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Ms Michigan
Aviation Professionals for EVE
#49 - 2014-03-20 15:23:21 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:

But in all cases, Starbase Reprocessing Arrays are better than NPC stations. As mentioned before, we have authored the Starbase Reprocessing Array as if you had perfect skills; so in reality they give you a 75.3% and 78.1% reprocesing rate.

I'm not understanding how, with perfect refining your chart says that you will refine in an NPC station @ 72.4% and starbase refining will be at 52/54% where is the extra 23% of yield coming from?


Ore amount increases? I am losing this point as well...
mkint
#50 - 2014-03-20 15:24:25 UTC  |  Edited by: mkint
CCP Logibro wrote:
Dis gone be good. Seriously though Roqual pilots everywhere rejoice.


Rejoice why? You're obsoleting the rorqual, not buffing it.

Rorqual:
1) can't go where miners mine
2) takes months of skills
3) expensive

POS mod
1) can go anywhere
2) no skills
3) pretty cheap

I guess rorqual will still be useful as a poor man's jump freighter, unless you decide to nerf that too.

edit:

I'm still fuzzy on why this is a good change.

-Miners are still going to mine where they mine
-Producers are still going to produce where they produce
-Refining nerf drives up costs by about 30%.
-Nullsec refining buff + mineral compression buff means that the cost of what's produced in nullsec drops by 30%.
-the only thing produced in nullsec? Superscaps

So yeah, that barrier of entry to nullsec has just been doubled. Anyone who wants to get their own chunk of sov now has a 60% financial disadvantage in doing so, on top of the ridiculous "need supers to get sov, need sov to get supers" catch 22 bullshit.

edit again:

For some reason, I can't help but think the new refining batch size might be better if it was based on m3 instead of units. Still working through that in my head, but using units instead of m3 is comparing apples to bananas. Although, maybe it doesn't actually matter. Maybe none of how that fits together matters, because after you set up your spreadsheet, nobody ever looks at it ever again.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Zifrian
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2014-03-20 15:26:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Zifrian
Everything here is win. Double win for Outpost / POS mod updates.

/enthusiasticallyapproved

Looking forward to Rorq changes later.

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Albert Spear
Non scholae sed vitae
#52 - 2014-03-20 15:26:58 UTC
As a career miner and a solo toon, I really like it.

It gives me reason to go into low sec and worm holes for the purpose of mining and refining.

Overall, running some simple math on the numbers, I doubt my income will take a huge hit, and loot from the wrecks in the belts will actually be helpful.

I am not thrilled about scrap metal, but I can deal with that particular change.

Overall a step in the right direction, now we just need to apply skills in Nul sec to refining and think about how this is going to impact freighter operations in high sec.

More compressed ore in high sec means fewer freighter runs in all probability and a need for a mid-sized cargo ship (e.g. in the 150-300,000 m3 range).
Reizak StormFury
Perkone
Caldari State
#53 - 2014-03-20 15:27:07 UTC
So...

The result of this is going to be:

1) An overall net loss in refining/reprocessing?
Exacerbated when performed in an NPC station, compared to a POS.

2) POS refining array's are getting their cooldown slashed, so they actually get used, and used pretty damn effectively?

3) Prices for refined minerals will invariably go up as they become less common, resulting in an inflated price for just about everything else in the game?


From reading this article loosely, are all these assumptions correct?

If so, the increase to price sucks for new players who already have a hard time.
Xayo 204
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2014-03-20 15:28:19 UTC
brb relisting some caps...



Max refine rate you can get on 425mm rails is 55% now? O god what did you do..? all those poor cap builders will need to do so many extra trips.
Raath Nambode
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2014-03-20 15:28:43 UTC
It was not a good time to buy and start researching 20 more 425 BPOs.

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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#56 - 2014-03-20 15:29:22 UTC
So...

* Stop manufacturing 425mm Railguns, liquidate your inventory, and sell your BPO now.
* Stock-up now on materials, because prices will be going-up, especially in the short-term until skills are trained to 5.
* Stock-up now on refining arrays.
* Stock-up on memory and intelligence attribute implants.
* Stock-up on refining implants.
* Sell your Rorqual now before everyone else does. Wait until it is more useful to buy one. [Opportunity cost.]

I probably missed a few.

This puts a major crimp in my training plans for several characters. I personally was going to remap in 19 hours to INT > MEM Sad
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#57 - 2014-03-20 15:31:24 UTC
a mere 200 days to max out refining skills :suicide:

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Raquel Smith
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#58 - 2014-03-20 15:32:03 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
Quote:
Any item not part of the two categories mentioned earlier (like ships and modules) will only be affected by the Scrapmetal Processing skil


so please disconnect the scrapmetal skill from the other dependencies. New players should not have to waste SP on ore reprocessing skills to be able rise efficiency of module reprocessing.


I did this many, many years ago to get access to Scrapmetal Processing. What a kick in the teeth.
Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#59 - 2014-03-20 15:32:51 UTC
Isn't this going to hit new players income streams?

We all know that a lot of them make money from mining, processing and then selling the minerals or making stuff. If we undermine their ability to do this how many of them are going to stay around and get more into the game?

But lets be honest this is just another attempt by CCP to undermine the economic viability of high sec and solo industry and force people into corps and specifically into low and null sec.

And it will always fail because the people who this change will hit most are the ones who would never go into null sec in the first place. I.E, new players without the skills or people who don't want to log on ever day.
Jagoff Haverford
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2014-03-20 15:33:00 UTC
I've gotta say, though, that I don't quite get why POS refining is not (currently) going to take a pilot's refining skill into account, and -- if I'm reading things right -- simply assume that everyone using it has perfect skills. All refining, in all locations, should take those skills into account. Otherwise, why bother training them at all?