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[Serious Discussion] This game's community leaves much to be desired

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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#381 - 2014-03-15 18:03:23 UTC
I think it's time to make my monthly suggestion to ccp that they make the nature of EVE explicitly and unavoidably clear to new players. It should literally be impossible to undock for the first time without clicking through a modal window that stays up for 60 seconds and says very clearly "OTHER PLAYERS CAN AND WILL INTERACT WITH YOU IN ANY AREA OF THE GAME, AND IT IS ALLOWABLE FOR THEM TO DO THINGS YOU MAY NOT LIKE."

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Salvos Rhoska
#382 - 2014-03-15 18:04:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
@Goe Rilla:

You have the right to terminate your account with CCP whenever you want.
You also have the right to make use of the service CCP provides, according to their terms and conditions, as long as you are a subscribed customer.
Everyone else in EVE also has these same exact rights.

None of your rights have been violated in the example you illustrated.

What you seemingly perceive as violations, apply only to imaginary rights that you THINK you have, but actually do not.

@Moonlit Raid:

Yes, those are literally two different responses.
They are comprised of two different sets of words and communicate two different meanings.

And? So what?

Are you trying to claim your response is morally superior to the other?
If so, based on whos moral judgement? Yours? Mine? The Mittanis?

Your moral stance is his response was immoral.
His moral stance would bviously seem to be that it was not immoral.
My moral stance is one of ambivalence, because I believe a person is free to say what they wish as long as they dont break the law.

None of us can dictate that our personal stance is the "right" one, because for each of us, that amounts only to our own opinion, and one which obviously the other two do not necessarilynshare and to which they are not accountable to, beholden to, or subservient to.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Good Posting
Doomheim
#383 - 2014-03-15 18:14:04 UTC
I think eve online has one of the best communities. I don't agree with some behaviours and i find the "tear harvesting11111" a bit childish but people shouldn't take some actions as something personal. It is a game after all.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#384 - 2014-03-15 18:14:05 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
I think it's time to make my monthly suggestion to ccp that they make the nature of EVE explicitly and unavoidably clear to new players. It should literally be impossible to undock for the first time without clicking through a modal window that stays up for 60 seconds and says very clearly "OTHER PLAYERS CAN AND WILL INTERACT WITH YOU IN ANY AREA OF THE GAME, AND IT IS ALLOWABLE FOR THEM TO DO THINGS YOU MAY NOT LIKE."

Do it.

I'd suggest a quiz to download the client as well — 80% correct required to get to the files. Do you think they'd call that overkill? P
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#385 - 2014-03-15 18:16:48 UTC
Goe Rilla wrote:




More like nobodies rights were officially examined, and so, easy to self-conclude on it like you just did.

Anyway, back on the topic at hand, I countered you for what you were saying about individual rights in general, not just in the Eve universe.

But if you want Eve-specific, i'll give you one:

In my early naive days of Eve I wanted to get into mining, i'd read a bit about the unforgiving nature of the game and its players, so I was a bit informed on precautions to take as a hisec miner.

However, that didnt stop the occasional suicide gank from happening and setting me back several weeks as a penniless starting player with no friends and no resources.

But one day came when the gankings became more repetitive, several times a week, followed by waves of insults in local, tagging, "lolcarebear", "back to wow", and all the likes of abuse we all know and endure in this game.

At this point I realised I would have to make tremendous efforts to remain in the hisec mining activity and keeping it the way I wanted to play the game, but I no later realized those efforts in vain, as ganks became systematic, wherever I went, for nearly a whole damn month. This had tremendous effects on my personal life planning as I would have to dedicate considerably more ammounts of time in the game.

It got to a point where I was forced into making a choice between my life and the game, as I was still paying a monthly subscription at the time (and who cares, it's just my money right ?).

It's at this time I thought on the real motivation behind all this rampant ganking, namecalling, PMs riddled with personal insults and abuse on my person, and all in the prevention of making my own money's worth of what I considered the game to play fun for me.

My right as a paying customer was in having fun with this game using a one of its safest advertised functions to do it with, but I was flat-out denied that right to start the game this way by people desiring nothing else but to stamp over your tracks and **** you, because they could.

At that point I also realized those same people had the choice in themselves not to perform such actions, and so, for a service I paid for, i refused to expose myself and money to actions i'd have next to zero control over, and so that ended up with an non-renewed subscription.

Did I have the choice to continue and choose another starting profession ? Sure.

Did I want to ? Nope.

Was it entirely my fault ? Precisely not one bit, as I was looking for my own way to play and have fun in the game using one of its advertised functions, but got prevented from it by an external force that could not care less about you, or why you joined and paid for this game in the first place.


Given the utter lack of killboard history I will assume you are currently using another account or an alt.

Going simply off what you described it sounds like you tried to mine during one of the interdictions that we ran. In response to you stating that you were not at fault I will say that yes, yes it was your fault. It doesn't matter if you were trying to play differently to other people, you were still playing EVE and as such you play the exact same game as we do so you are fair game.

Now as a miner you have several options open to you including not mining in systems that are under a well advertised attack, staying aligned so you can instantly warp out, not going AFK and using the scanned and you overview to provide yourself intel on what ships are in your area and the option to fit a robust tank as well as choosing a ship like the skiff which is a gankers worst nightmare and selecting a flight of ECM drones.

Like most miners you likely chose to do none of these things and flew an untanked hulk/mack/retri and went for max cargo and yield. So yes, it was your fault.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#386 - 2014-03-15 18:26:17 UTC
Goe Rilla wrote:
Was it entirely my fault ? Precisely not one bit, as I was looking for my own way to play and have fun in the game using one of its advertised functions, but got prevented from it by an external force that could not care less about you, or why you joined and paid for this game in the first place.

It rather was. Just like they had to force their ways onto you to get what they wanted, you have to force your ways on them to get what you want. You failed to do so, so you didn't get your way.

Welcome to the sandbox, where you aren't guaranteed to succeed at anything you attempt, but rather get to attempt anything you want to succeed at. To do so, you will have to overcome other players who have opposing interests and who are trying to do exactly the same.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#387 - 2014-03-15 18:41:07 UTC
Just for clarification:

I don't scam

I don't gank

I don't laugh at people who are bad enough that they get killed by somone who players as badly as me

I make a habit of helping new players

I do play in an NBSI alliance in 0.0 but I don't awox or spy

But

I want my choice to play that way to have meaning. If I were forced to play that way then my choice to do would mean nothing; I'd be just a clockwork orange, and I'd soon quit the game. Because the only reason that EVE Online, A Bad Game gets people to log in is because of the player interaction.

I accept that this choice means that I will sometimes be at a disadvantage. I am self secure enough to laugh off attempts by players who choose a different path to try and make me feel bad when those choices cost me. Generally I manage to turn the attempt back on them and have a laugh myself.

I am content that my choice has overall been to my advantage ingame: my word is good, there are many people in game ready to lend me ISK or assets (Bliss if you're reading this I'll trade the Rev back when the rugby is over and I log in OK?) but win or lose, my choices, my consequences, my responsibility: my game.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#388 - 2014-03-15 18:42:56 UTC
And no one can take that away from me, and by god I'll fight you if you try.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#389 - 2014-03-15 18:52:01 UTC
It's actually Molle's game, but at least you think you're making autonomous decisions, so your point still stands.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Kyperion
#390 - 2014-03-15 18:58:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Kyperion
Malcanis wrote:
Just for clarification:

I don't scam

I don't gank

I don't laugh at people who are bad enough that they get killed by somone who players as badly as me

I make a habit of helping new players

I do play in an NBSI alliance in 0.0 but I don't awox or spy

But

I want my choice to play that way to have meaning. If I were forced to play that way then my choice to do would mean nothing; I'd be just a clockwork orange, and I'd soon quit the game. Because the only reason that EVE Online, A Bad Game gets people to log in is because of the player interaction.

I accept that this choice means that I will sometimes be at a disadvantage. I am self secure enough to laugh off attempts by players who choose a different path to try and make me feel bad when those choices cost me. Generally I manage to turn the attempt back on them and have a laugh myself.

I am content that my choice has overall been to my advantage ingame: my word is good, there are many people in game ready to lend me ISK or assets (Bliss if you're reading this I'll trade the Rev back when the rugby is over and I log in OK?) but win or lose, my choices, my consequences, my responsibility: my game.

what meaning or consequence does ganking have if the
primary strategy involves throw away characters and in a game where a gank ship loss is never consequential?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#391 - 2014-03-15 19:01:51 UTC
Kyperion wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Just for clarification:

I don't scam

I don't gank

I don't laugh at people who are bad enough that they get killed by somone who players as badly as me

I make a habit of helping new players

I do play in an NBSI alliance in 0.0 but I don't awox or spy

But

I want my choice to play that way to have meaning. If I were forced to play that way then my choice to do would mean nothing; I'd be just a clockwork orange, and I'd soon quit the game. Because the only reason that EVE Online, A Bad Game gets people to log in is because of the player interaction.

I accept that this choice means that I will sometimes be at a disadvantage. I am self secure enough to laugh off attempts by players who choose a different path to try and make me feel bad when those choices cost me. Generally I manage to turn the attempt back on them and have a laugh myself.

I am content that my choice has overall been to my advantage ingame: my word is good, there are many people in game ready to lend me ISK or assets (Bliss if you're reading this I'll trade the Rev back when the rugby is over and I log in OK?) but win or lose, my choices, my consequences, my responsibility: my game.

what meaning or consequence does yanking have if the
primary strategy involves throw away characters and in a game where a tank ship loss is never consequential?


I don't care. It's my job to keep my ship safe when I'm in space. I accept the risk and try and learn from my errors when I lose.

I've lost ships when I wasn't paying attention or just plain screwed up. I didn't whine about it because I'm a grown man.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Kyperion
#392 - 2014-03-15 19:07:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Kyperion
this immature "I didn't whine about losing ships" is ******* stupid. There have been a few, but for the most part people are just pontificating on how *CONSEQUENTLESS* .... and retardedly easy it is to kill merchant/mining ships...... a real man would say that's pussifying piracy and fight for more ships to have a reason and reasonable ability to **** each other up
Helia Tranquilis
Confused Bunnies Inc
#393 - 2014-03-15 19:12:01 UTC
I thought we had a good conversation going... until a certain continent woke up and the normal poo-flinging commenced.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#394 - 2014-03-15 19:14:57 UTC
Kyperion wrote:
this immature "I didn't whine about losing ships" is ******* stupid. There have been a few, but for the most part people are just pontificating on how *CONSEQUENTLESS* .... and retardedly easy it is to kill merchant/mining ships...... a real man would say that's pussifying piracy and fight for more ships to have a reason and reasonable ability to **** each other up


Ok well, you can say it's stupid - but I'm the one who's having a good game experience playing my way.

I apologise for not being as thin-skinned as you think I should be. No doubt it's a personal failing of mine.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#395 - 2014-03-15 19:15:55 UTC
Seriously, few shabby pirates with guns can capture whole tanker with cargo worth millions in real life? This game is completely fair when you look at that from this perspective.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Kyperion
#396 - 2014-03-15 19:20:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Kyperion
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Seriously, few shabby pirates with guns can capture whole tanker with cargo worth millions in real life? This game is completely fair when you look at that from this perspective.

until death is permanent in this game and that means each actual human behind the controls only gets one shot at eve life... no, no its not... because those inbred fucksticks got a bullet to the head each and no jump clones
Kyperion
#397 - 2014-03-15 19:23:11 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
this immature "I didn't whine about losing ships" is ******* stupid. There have been a few, but for the most part people are just pontificating on how *CONSEQUENTLESS* .... and retardedly easy it is to kill merchant/mining ships...... a real man would say that's pussifying piracy and fight for more ships to have a reason and reasonable ability to **** each other up


Ok well, you can say it's stupid - but I'm the one who's having a good game experience playing my way.

I apologise for not being as thin-skinned as you think I should be. No doubt it's a personal failing of mine.

and you can claim to be thick skinned but you are not. it is one of your failings.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#398 - 2014-03-15 19:23:50 UTC
Kyperion wrote:
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Seriously, few shabby pirates with guns can capture whole tanker with cargo worth millions in real life? This game is completely fair when you look at that from this perspective.

until death is permanent in this game and that means each actual human behind the controls only gets one shot at eve life... no, no its not... because those inbred fucksticks got a bullet to the head each and no jump clones


The tanker captain was equally without a clone and could also be killed the same way. Are you sure that's the balancing change you want?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#399 - 2014-03-15 19:24:50 UTC
Kyperion wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
this immature "I didn't whine about losing ships" is ******* stupid. There have been a few, but for the most part people are just pontificating on how *CONSEQUENTLESS* .... and retardedly easy it is to kill merchant/mining ships...... a real man would say that's pussifying piracy and fight for more ships to have a reason and reasonable ability to **** each other up


Ok well, you can say it's stupid - but I'm the one who's having a good game experience playing my way.

I apologise for not being as thin-skinned as you think I should be. No doubt it's a personal failing of mine.

and you can claim to be thick skinned but you are not. it is one of your failings.


Ah, the "NO YOU ARE" rebuttal. As devastating now as it was in the playground when I was 6.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Salvos Rhoska
#400 - 2014-03-15 19:26:45 UTC
Kyperion wrote:
inbred fucksticks


Ooh the anger is rising in this one.

Such a moral person. So much dignity and restraint.

You think a ship fit and intended for a resource/haul activity should be capable of fighting off a ship fit and intended for destroying other ships?

What planet do you live on exactly?

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent