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[Rubicon 1.1] Rapid Missile Update

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Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#581 - 2014-03-07 07:25:01 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Julian DeCroix wrote:
CMLs, in most cases, still provide superior damage application over RHMLs.

Cruise missiles provide superior damage application over RHMLs in every instance, because RHMLs do not receive explosion velocity, explosion radius or missile velocity bonuses. This is even before you factor-in reload time on RHMLs, which effectively reduces stated DPS by one third or greater.

Explosion velocity and or explosion radius bonuses for RHML.

My good man, that would make them useful and that is quite clearly not the aim here.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#582 - 2014-03-07 13:15:30 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Explosion velocity and or explosion radius bonuses for RHML.
My good man, that would make them useful and that is quite clearly not the aim here.

Sorry, my bad. For a second there I had grandiose notions...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Omega Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#583 - 2014-03-09 02:54:29 UTC
RIP in Peace Rapid lights )))))))
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#584 - 2014-03-09 04:23:15 UTC
Rubicon 1.3 is out on Tuesday. Any wagers that we see at least a swap fix for rapid launchers?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#585 - 2014-03-09 06:06:00 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Rubicon 1.3 is out on Tuesday. Any wagers that we see at least a swap fix for rapid launchers?

Everything else about them was done without player feedback or testing, so nothing about rapid launcher changes would be surprising at this stage.

We can but wait and see if there is something good to come.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#586 - 2014-03-10 03:01:36 UTC
Rapid Heavy Missile Fail
10:45. Yes CCP Rise, this is what we've been telling you for months.
11:00. So what are you planning to do with the Golem or with rapid heavy missile launchers in general?
11:07. A fix in 1.3? First we've heard of it. Guess you were right Sgt.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#587 - 2014-03-10 03:17:45 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Rapid Heavy Missile Fail
10:45. Yes CCP Rise, this is what we've been telling you for months.
11:00. So what are you planning to do with the Golem or with rapid heavy missile launchers in general?
11:07. A fix in 1.3? First we've heard of it. Guess you were right Sgt.



Let's really not use a match where they hit every single checklist in the "How not to use RHML, and how to fit them to poorly chosen ships"

100+km kiting is never, and will never be the RHML's strong points.

That's not to say it's a good mod, cause it's not, but that match was like demonstrating how useful a computer is by handing it to a monkey.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#588 - 2014-03-10 04:02:58 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Let's really not use a match where they hit every single checklist in the "How not to use RHML, and how to fit them to poorly chosen ships"

100+km kiting is never, and will never be the RHML's strong points.

That's not to say it's a good mod, cause it's not, but that match was like demonstrating how useful a computer is by handing it to a monkey.

No really, let's. This tournament supposedly features some of the best in PvP, so you can't now play the "how not to use RHML" card. They obviously some had inclination on how to use it or they wouldn't have chosen it in the first place. It's pretty sad to see those proponents of the rapid launchers still grabbing at straws... More likely some of you weren't fans of the original rapid light launchers and were only too happy to see these nerfed.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#589 - 2014-03-10 04:22:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Anhenka wrote:
Let's really not use a match where they hit every single checklist in the "How not to use RHML, and how to fit them to poorly chosen ships"

100+km kiting is never, and will never be the RHML's strong points.

That's not to say it's a good mod, cause it's not, but that match was like demonstrating how useful a computer is by handing it to a monkey.

No really, let's. This tournament supposedly features some of the best in PvP, so you can't now play the "how not to use RHML" card. They obviously some had inclination on how to use it or they wouldn't have chosen it in the first place. It's pretty sad to see those proponents of the rapid launchers still grabbing at straws... More likely some of you weren't fans of the original rapid light launchers and were only too happy to see these nerfed.

If the Providence Wisadrs (Yes that is spelled correctly) actually have anything to do with Proviblock, I wouldn't be surprised to see laser Ravens, shield Abaddons, or the like. Just because they made it this far certainly does not mean they are good, it means that their enemies were worse.

As I said before, by all I can tell, the RHML are aweful, but you don't pick a worse case poor scenario to showcase why it's bad. I wouldn't use an alarm clock as a hammer, although I could try and hammer in a nail with one, and I wouldn't use RHML's in an arena 200km wide to fight a kiting team.

Frankly though, ~Missiles~

~ Missiles~ + ~Provi~ = unsurprising total uselessness.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#590 - 2014-03-10 04:52:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Anhenka wrote:
As I said before, by all I can tell, the RHML are aweful, but you don't pick a worse case poor scenario to showcase why it's bad.

No one's using them, so it's not like there are a lot of scenarios to choose from... Maybe CCP Rise would be kind enough to grace us with some current usage stats since their introduction?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Julian DeCroix
Socialist Death Panel
#591 - 2014-03-10 17:02:00 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Rubicon 1.3 is out on Tuesday. Any wagers that we see at least a swap fix for rapid launchers?

I can't help thinking that, if they actually *had* a functional ammo swap fix, they wouldn't be sneaking it into the 1.3 update without so much as a teaser.

I haven't seen this past weekend's matches yet, but I did finally get to watch the YouTube replays of the first weekend. Two things:
1) The second WEHURT win: did not get the impression that the outcome would have been any different had the Cerberus and Caracals been fit with regular small LMLs. Looked like the Sentinel probably had more influence. Exciting match, nonetheless.

2) Judging by the way Rise, Fozzie and Dolan all gushed about how much they lurv the new RMLs, I doubt we'll see much more truly constructive work on them at all. Some minor (read: trivial) tweaking, perhaps, but probably nothing significant.

I still think that redoing RMLs along the lines of the pre-rubicon stats, but with a new overheat mechanic to create the "burst" functionality, combined with a rework of the entire missile damage application progression, is the best way to handle the whole thing. It is a shame that the right way to do something is often also the hard way.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#592 - 2014-03-10 17:34:04 UTC
Julian DeCroix wrote:
Judging by the way Rise, Fozzie and Dolan all gushed about how much they lurv the new RMLs, I doubt we'll see much more truly constructive work on them at all.

Was there a single team in the NEO that won utilizing RLMLs or RHMLs? I've watched all the matches but I can't seem to recall one. I think I've only seen one RHML fit Golem, and they were defeated quite decisively. In fact, the only effective use of a Marauder was in one of the matches yesterday which proved decisive when they fit it with a MWD instead of turtling with it.

I think if they were to extend all the bonuses to rapid launchers (Caracal Navy, Tengu, Drake, Drake Navy, Raven, Scorpion, Navy Scorpion, Navy Raven, Rattlesnake, etc.) as well as Bastion it would be a huge improvement.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Julian DeCroix
Socialist Death Panel
#593 - 2014-03-10 18:04:12 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Was there a single team in the NEO that won utilizing RLMLs or RHMLs?

Yes, the second day: Asine Hitama's Team vs WEHURT
WEHURT fit two Caracals and a Cerberus with RLMLs, and won the match. Correlation does not imply causation, however; those ships could have been fit with standard LMLs, or perhaps even HMLs, and I sincerely doubt it would have affected the outcome much. I think the Sentinel keeping the Vargurs TDed for so long was a greater factor.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#594 - 2014-03-10 18:15:33 UTC
Julian DeCroix wrote:
Yes, the second day: Asine Hitama's Team vs WEHURT
WEHURT fit two Caracals and a Cerberus with RLMLs, and won the match. Correlation does not imply causation, however; those ships could have been fit with standard LMLs, or perhaps even HMLs, and I sincerely doubt it would have affected the outcome much. I think the Sentinel keeping the Vargurs TDed for so long was a greater factor.

I can't recall which match it was yesterday, but there was a team with RLML-fit Caracals that went down in flames. Again, not necessarily conclusive - but like Marauders, I think rapid launchers have been a mixed bag of snakes in the tournament.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Julian DeCroix
Socialist Death Panel
#595 - 2014-03-11 17:37:31 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Rubicon 1.3 is out on Tuesday. Any wagers that we see at least a swap fix for rapid launchers?

Delayed to Wednesday, but the patch notes are released.


Good News: There *is* a change made to missile damage application!
Quote:
The velocity of Heavy Missiles is now properly affected by Bastion Module I.

Bad News: That's the *only* change made to missile damage application listed in the patch notes.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#596 - 2014-03-11 19:41:16 UTC
Julian DeCroix wrote:
Good News: There *is* a change made to missile damage application!
Bad News: That's the *only* change made to missile damage application listed in the patch notes.

And probably one of the last changes to rapid launchers we're going to see for some time...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#597 - 2014-03-12 00:44:02 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Julian DeCroix wrote:
Good News: There *is* a change made to missile damage application!
Bad News: That's the *only* change made to missile damage application listed in the patch notes.

And probably one of the last changes to rapid launchers we're going to see for some time...

Sadly a change that has little to no affect for the majority of players.


My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#598 - 2014-03-12 03:33:40 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Julian DeCroix wrote:
Good News: There *is* a change made to missile damage application!
Bad News: That's the *only* change made to missile damage application listed in the patch notes.

And probably one of the last changes to rapid launchers we're going to see for some time...



and rapid marauder.......yeah GTFO
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#599 - 2014-03-12 10:40:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Onictus wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Julian DeCroix wrote:
Good News: There *is* a change made to missile damage application!
Bad News: That's the *only* change made to missile damage application listed in the patch notes.

And probably one of the last changes to rapid launchers we're going to see for some time...



and rapid marauder.......yeah GTFO

Yeah 770 DPS for 43 seconds then none for the next 35.. What more could a pilot who has spent over 1 bil on his ship need.
Now if Heavy missiles got the explosion velocity bonus they might actually be able to hit something for a damn and be worth using. (Probably not, 35 second reload is just too long)

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Vinyl 41
AdVictis
#600 - 2014-03-12 11:38:17 UTC
rhml marauders are lol the application on those is nearly the same as on cruise missles so why even bother