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[Rubicon 1.1] Omnidirectional Tracking Links

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EndersChild
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#421 - 2014-02-06 09:01:22 UTC
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Hasikan Miallok wrote:


The Rattler actually needs the Domi/Ishtar tracking and optimal bonuses, even if it loses the drone damage bonus to get them.





Nah, just drop the missile projection bonus for an Optimal and Tracking bonus


Disagree with losing the drone damage bonus, but agree with dropping the launcher one. Split weapon system bonuses suck when trying to slot increase both. The total damage bonus of 50%, 75% and 125% the Machariel, Vindicator and Nightmare achieve respectively means the RS is way behind. Make it an improved shield drone platform

Special Ability: 25% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage

Caldari Battleship Skill Bonus:

4% shield resistance per level

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonus:

10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage per skill level
10% bonus to Drone optimal range per skill level
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#422 - 2014-02-06 09:33:45 UTC
EndersChild wrote:
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Hasikan Miallok wrote:


The Rattler actually needs the Domi/Ishtar tracking and optimal bonuses, even if it loses the drone damage bonus to get them.





Nah, just drop the missile projection bonus for an Optimal and Tracking bonus


Disagree with losing the drone damage bonus, but agree with dropping the launcher one. Split weapon system bonuses suck when trying to slot increase both. The total damage bonus of 50%, 75% and 125% the Machariel, Vindicator and Nightmare achieve respectively means the RS is way behind. Make it an improved shield drone platform

Special Ability: 25% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage

Caldari Battleship Skill Bonus:

4% shield resistance per level

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonus:

10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage per skill level
10% bonus to Drone optimal range per skill level

you are going too heavy on the drone bonus.

a 25%, then a 50% then all those free DDA on a shield BS.......

yeah, sure, not OP at ALL

Special ability: 25% tracking for heavy / sentry, then keep all the rest of the bonuses, then it's OK
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#423 - 2014-02-06 10:11:43 UTC
Look at total effective number of turrets/drones. Not how big the bonus is. I.E. Nightmares get a large bonus because they only start with 4 turrets. Vindi's start with more, so their bonus adds up to more effective turrets at the end of it all.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#424 - 2014-02-06 10:43:31 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Well I was rather disappointed that there were no balance changes for this point release.


We made balance changes to interceptors, drones, and a whole heap of modules in 1.1.


Do we have a general timeline for Black Ops, pirate ships, or any plans for pirate/faction destroyers or pirate battlecruisers?

And any new T2 or T3 ships, of course. ;)

Basically, the question is: what's on your plate for Rubicon 1.2?


JD No7 wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Well I was rather disappointed that there were no balance changes for this point release.


We made balance changes to interceptors, drones, and a whole heap of modules in 1.1.


Fozzie, when can we expect Recons rebalancing please?


As always, we'll be announcing the upcoming balancing projects and looking for feedback as soon as they're ready. In the meantime we can't really give timelines or estimates in public.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#425 - 2014-02-06 10:56:00 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:


Hi Fozzie, it's heartening to see that you are monitoring this thread.

I am interested in the choice to balance sentry drones by modifying the omnidirectional tracking link. There has been a great deal of consensus amongst players that the reason for them being overpowered is actually the fact that you can set a fleet of sentries to assist one fast-locking FC.

Are you able to confirm that modifying this mechanic (for example disallowing it with sentry drones) was examined by the dev team?

If so, I would be very interested as to why this avenue was not pursued. Since it seems to me that it would mitigate the single feature of sentries that makes them overly powerful.

To be clear, the recent change to omnis has made sentries more fiddly to use in that they now require some limited player intervention, but has not ultimately brought them in line (in terms of ability to bring focussed fleet fire to bear quickly) with other weapon systems.

Surely the addition of a "canSlave" flag to each drone type would not have been such a stretch?

I would be most interested in your considered reply.


Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#426 - 2014-02-06 14:13:07 UTC
we need recons, pirates and T3's rebalanced ASAP and the upcoming sentry nerf and drone assist removal.... sentries outdo any long range weapon system by a mile .. tracking of medium LR guns damage of medium SR weapons at least on the useful ones..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#427 - 2014-02-06 14:17:49 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:


Hi Fozzie, it's heartening to see that you are monitoring this thread.

I am interested in the choice to balance sentry drones by modifying the omnidirectional tracking link. There has been a great deal of consensus amongst players that the reason for them being overpowered is actually the fact that you can set a fleet of sentries to assist one fast-locking FC.

Are you able to confirm that modifying this mechanic (for example disallowing it with sentry drones) was examined by the dev team?

If so, I would be very interested as to why this avenue was not pursued. Since it seems to me that it would mitigate the single feature of sentries that makes them overly powerful.

To be clear, the recent change to omnis has made sentries more fiddly to use in that they now require some limited player intervention, but has not ultimately brought them in line (in terms of ability to bring focussed fleet fire to bear quickly) with other weapon systems.

Surely the addition of a "canSlave" flag to each drone type would not have been such a stretch?

I would be most interested in your considered reply.




I can confirm that drone assist has and is being looked at. We are very confident that the current drone assist system requires adjustment, and also very confident that drone assist isn't the only balance problem with sentries.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#428 - 2014-02-06 14:19:49 UTC  |  Edited by: IIshira
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

I am interested in the choice to balance sentry drones by modifying the omnidirectional tracking link. There has been a great deal of consensus amongst players that the reason for them being overpowered is actually the fact that you can set a fleet of sentries to assist one fast-locking FC.

If so, I would be very interested as to why this avenue was not pursued. Since it seems to me that it would mitigate the single feature of sentries that makes them overly powerful.


I too would like to hear about this. Having this feature pretty much allows the FC to instantly control everyone's main weapon in the fleet, thus allowing massive volley damage from a ship that can instalock. Even with the 1.1 tracking link nerf this is OP.


Initially I was upset about the TL nerf but TBH I took another look and for the Domi it just means I had to change from Gardes to Bouncers. If they gave the RS the same bonuses as the Domi I think ti would work okay.

Edit:... Fozzie responded before I could finish typing my post P
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#429 - 2014-02-06 15:11:09 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:


Hi Fozzie, it's heartening to see that you are monitoring this thread.

I am interested in the choice to balance sentry drones by modifying the omnidirectional tracking link. There has been a great deal of consensus amongst players that the reason for them being overpowered is actually the fact that you can set a fleet of sentries to assist one fast-locking FC.

Are you able to confirm that modifying this mechanic (for example disallowing it with sentry drones) was examined by the dev team?

If so, I would be very interested as to why this avenue was not pursued. Since it seems to me that it would mitigate the single feature of sentries that makes them overly powerful.

To be clear, the recent change to omnis has made sentries more fiddly to use in that they now require some limited player intervention, but has not ultimately brought them in line (in terms of ability to bring focussed fleet fire to bear quickly) with other weapon systems.

Surely the addition of a "canSlave" flag to each drone type would not have been such a stretch?

I would be most interested in your considered reply.




I can confirm that drone assist has and is being looked at. We are very confident that the current drone assist system requires adjustment, and also very confident that drone assist isn't the only balance problem with sentries.


Would you be so kind as to list the dev team's view of the balance problem with sentries, in order of seriousness?

I am somewhat surprised that you do not share the view that this is their single most powerful feature. If there are other more pressing problems with them it would please me to be enlightened.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
EndersChild
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#430 - 2014-02-06 15:44:13 UTC
seth Hendar wrote:
you are going too heavy on the drone bonus.

a 25%, then a 50% then all those free DDA on a shield BS.......

yeah, sure, not OP at ALL

Special ability: 25% tracking for heavy / sentry, then keep all the rest of the bonuses, then it's OK


Fit all 4 ships with drones and T2 weapons with 4 x T2 damage mods on each and the RS is the poorest DPS, and this is with torps which will need the mid slots to get any application. You can also faction the other 3 ships damage mods, not as yet an option on the RS except with a BCS over DDA’s. Of course range isn’t being factored, but as far as a raw DPS number, it would be far from OP
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#431 - 2014-02-07 07:38:47 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:


Hi Fozzie, it's heartening to see that you are monitoring this thread.

I am interested in the choice to balance sentry drones by modifying the omnidirectional tracking link. There has been a great deal of consensus amongst players that the reason for them being overpowered is actually the fact that you can set a fleet of sentries to assist one fast-locking FC.

Are you able to confirm that modifying this mechanic (for example disallowing it with sentry drones) was examined by the dev team?

If so, I would be very interested as to why this avenue was not pursued. Since it seems to me that it would mitigate the single feature of sentries that makes them overly powerful.

To be clear, the recent change to omnis has made sentries more fiddly to use in that they now require some limited player intervention, but has not ultimately brought them in line (in terms of ability to bring focussed fleet fire to bear quickly) with other weapon systems.

Surely the addition of a "canSlave" flag to each drone type would not have been such a stretch?

I would be most interested in your considered reply.




I can confirm that drone assist has and is being looked at. We are very confident that the current drone assist system requires adjustment, and also very confident that drone assist isn't the only balance problem with sentries.


Would you be so kind as to list the dev team's view of the balance problem with sentries, in order of seriousness?

I am somewhat surprised that you do not share the view that this is their single most powerful feature.

You should probably read it again because he said nothing of the sort.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#432 - 2014-02-07 07:53:21 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
You should probably read it again because he said nothing of the sort.

That's what he said.
Layla Firoue
Doomheim
#433 - 2014-02-07 10:29:25 UTC
EndersChild wrote:
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Hasikan Miallok wrote:


The Rattler actually needs the Domi/Ishtar tracking and optimal bonuses, even if it loses the drone damage bonus to get them.





Nah, just drop the missile projection bonus for an Optimal and Tracking bonus


Disagree with losing the drone damage bonus, but agree with dropping the launcher one. Split weapon system bonuses suck when trying to slot increase both. The total damage bonus of 50%, 75% and 125% the Machariel, Vindicator and Nightmare achieve respectively means the RS is way behind. Make it an improved shield drone platform

Special Ability: 25% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage

Caldari Battleship Skill Bonus:

4% shield resistance per level

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonus:

10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage per skill level
10% bonus to Drone optimal range per skill level


Ahaha 75% drone damage PLUS 50% optimal bonus LMAO are you completely out of your mind ??
Hexatron Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#434 - 2014-02-07 14:26:05 UTC
Now this posting got unstickied, and there is no word yet if there will be any work done on the UI to actually display the information on active drones, or even those in the bay.

You cannot see how changing scripts or active modules change the drone stats - while it is common to get all those informations on your turrets.

Any words on this? Is there any work done to get those informations out to the drone users?
Ace Echo
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#435 - 2014-02-07 16:18:02 UTC
Hexatron Ormand wrote:
Now this posting got unstickied, and there is no word yet if there will be any work done on the UI to actually display the information on active drones, or even those in the bay.

You cannot see how changing scripts or active modules change the drone stats - while it is common to get all those informations on your turrets.

Any words on this? Is there any work done to get those informations out to the drone users?



If you actually read the thread, there's a post a few pages back where Fozzie states that he understands that people want it, but it would be quite a PITA to write the code for it, due to backend restrictions between elements.

If you can milk it, it's an udder.
Narkomaan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#436 - 2014-02-08 15:02:48 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone.

I want to officially clarify that the fact that drone attributes are not properly displaying in show info is a bug and that your Omnis are in fact applying their bonuses correctly.
The issue with show info is a long standing bug that has to do with the way the client displays attributes on items that aren't your ship (or directly fitted to your ship). We're looking into getting it fixed, but it's not a simple issue.




The drones werent directly fitted to our ships before 1.1 and the attributes were showing correctly when drones were in our dronebay. I think we can accept the fact that drone attribues dont show when the drones are launched but why cant we see the bonused attribues when the drones are in bay when they were working before 1.1 and your telling that its really difficult to make them show correctly ? Im sorry in advance if i explained myself too hard to understand. Cheers.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#437 - 2014-02-08 15:44:54 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:


Hi Fozzie, it's heartening to see that you are monitoring this thread.

I am interested in the choice to balance sentry drones by modifying the omnidirectional tracking link. There has been a great deal of consensus amongst players that the reason for them being overpowered is actually the fact that you can set a fleet of sentries to assist one fast-locking FC.

Are you able to confirm that modifying this mechanic (for example disallowing it with sentry drones) was examined by the dev team?

If so, I would be very interested as to why this avenue was not pursued. Since it seems to me that it would mitigate the single feature of sentries that makes them overly powerful.

To be clear, the recent change to omnis has made sentries more fiddly to use in that they now require some limited player intervention, but has not ultimately brought them in line (in terms of ability to bring focussed fleet fire to bear quickly) with other weapon systems.

Surely the addition of a "canSlave" flag to each drone type would not have been such a stretch?

I would be most interested in your considered reply.




I can confirm that drone assist has and is being looked at. We are very confident that the current drone assist system requires adjustment, and also very confident that drone assist isn't the only balance problem with sentries.


Would you be so kind as to list the dev team's view of the balance problem with sentries, in order of seriousness?

I am somewhat surprised that you do not share the view that this is their single most powerful feature.

You should probably read it again because he said nothing of the sort.


I read Fozzie's words very carefully. They were very carefully chosen to give away as little information as possible, probably because discussions were taking place with the CSM which seem to have resulted in the assist limit.

My view on that is that the assist limit is an anemic response and that a blanket prohibition on sentry drone assist is preferable since:
1. It ensures that every pilot has to participate in combat
2. It does not impact any existing non-sentry play styles.
3. It eradicates completely the unfair instant alpha that a sentry fleet enjoys, and will still enjoy at the squad level.

I speak as a very regular user of sentries.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#438 - 2014-02-09 00:36:46 UTC
I do understand why Fozzie can't just say what they're going to do when it's not set in stone. I think it's pretty cool that the game devs actually respond to their players concerns. This is why I'm glad CCP is a small company. They don't leave their customers out in the "cold" Big smile
Shvak
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#439 - 2014-02-11 14:28:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Shvak
Speak as someone who has always loved the rattlesnake. Can we possibly get some clue as to how the non-nerf bat is going to hit the ship. More dps via the missile system (extra hard point or two) or is it likely to be hull bonus to drones similar to the Ishtar and domi.
Would love to take my rattler out of its tomb for a spin.

My own 5 cents. I train missile skills early on in eve until I realized every sane toon owner was gun/drone training. It really would be nice if at least one of the faction battleships made it worth while training missiles skills again.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#440 - 2014-02-11 14:42:09 UTC
Shvak wrote:
Speak as someone who has always loved the rattlesnake. Can we possibly get some clue as to how the non-nerf bat is going to hit the ship. More dps via the missile system (extra hard point or two) or is it likely to be hull bonus to drones similar to the Ishtar and domi.
Would love to take my rattler out of its tomb for a spin.

My own 5 cents. I train missile skills early on in eve until I realized every sane toon owner was gun/drone training. It really would be nice if at least one of the faction battleships made it worth while training missiles skills again.


I hope they give it the same bonus as the Dominix. There is already the Raven, Navy Raven and Navy Scorpion that do missiles very well... I don't think they could make it a missile boat that is more powerful than the CNR because that would really be OP.

In theory a "Pirate Faction" battleship should be superior to their standard faction counterparts. At least this is true with all except the Rattlesnake and the SOE Nestor that just came out... They probably just released it kind of crappy so they can buff it later then people will be happy. It's better than releasing it OP then having to nerf it making everyone upset.

As to CCP announcing any specifics early I doubt they would do this till a final decision has been made.