Out of Pod Experience

I resent the accusations of looking like that. Clearly, my tinfoil hat is much more finely crafted: http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/picture/lolkat/lolcatsdotcomiy0hwr7nqv87ch3g.jpg

Okay, honestly, pirates profit from killing people and taking their crap. Now, usually you want to ambush high-value prey, so you prepare accordingly. Sometimes you need to overtake and intercept an inbound target, or chase it towards someone that can do it. Keep in mind, you're usually after a target that doesn't want to be ganked - so in SC equivalent, he'd be sticking to "safe" areas of space and having his pvp slider down to zero.

Now, no matter what scheme the outlaws hatch, no skill is involved in interception. It's down to a dice roll whether the target appears or not - or worse, whether they have to fight NPCs or engage in actually interesting content. "But... but... NPCs will be dangerous! Fighting them will be engaging!" - yeah, right. Thing with NPCs is, they run on AI algorithms. When we're talking about MMOs, we're talking about hundreds/thousands of players encountering said AI over the course of many months or even years.

In a nutshell, it will take very little time for the AI mechanics to be documented and the fights to become repetitive. If your gang cruise with PvP sliders turned up to eleven, with the sole intent of redecorating someone's face with some bullet make-up, yields nothing but a worthless fight with a bunch of NPCs... yeah, this is one reason not to. It's worse than coming back with your hands empty in EVE - you have to deal with rats.

You'd also have to look at the probability of intersections dependent on time. That would require either a damn small universe or a damn big playerbase to have a reliable probability of running into people by having intersecting courses. Now, of course - this all depends on how the universe will be constructed. A lot of EVE's hottest "get your free RF EMP/CN Antimatter" systems are sec borders hi/low, hi/null or places where local pirate corporations stage from. (Migrating hotspots are another thing, largely dependent on temporary events - big battles for instance have a tendency to attract scavengers hoping to make off with some of the loot or vultures preying on disconnected pilots.)

And, at last, the donation bit. They are offering systems as a reward if you pay, so yes - they are selling systems. What's worrying the most is that they're expecting people to donate more money than their initial kickstarter goal for core functionality of the game - at first a wide range of ships to use and now systems to explore.

This all reeks of, if not a scam, then of a really dirty sales method. The actual price of releasing the product in a playable, viable state is a lot higher than the announced initial one. Since the price tag of 500k USD sounds way more appealing than 40mln USD, you advertise as that first and then tease people with adding actual features if they throw in more.

The whole project has a massive advertising campaign and a lot of promises made to the players, yet actual demonstrations of its core functions have been delayed. Now, the conspiracy-cat I am, I shall bring up Freelancer again. Don't get me wrong - I lost hours on Freelancer, it was a really fun game but...

...it began exactly the same way Star Citizen did - Roberts having a "grand vision", only it wasn't 'the new tens', but the end of the 90's. He intended to create a dynamic, living universe with AI-driven, working economy. The project was, of course, struck with numerous delays and costs kept piling up - up until CR sold Digital Anvil to Microsoft, remained as a consultant for Freelancer and eventually abandoned the project.

The game still took a few years to finish, with majority of the features Microsoft considered overly ambitious axed from the development time. It came out a solid, good product - nothing groundbreaking, but enjoyable.

(I also shouldn't perhaps mention his brilliant venture into the world of film that yielded the world a scifi flick that's so bad it probably doesn't even have a porn parody. Well, rule 34 applies, so there probably is - but it was bad nonetheless.)

"But Trii, you conspiracy-throwing feline of the hating variety - CCP does the same! Promises, fiascos - remember Incarna?"

Yup, I, in fact, do - the problem with CCP is that they actually came up to players and apologized. They backed out of the microtransaction plan, released numerous improvements to the service they continue to provide and, since then, have constantly improved player's lives around the 'verse.

From what Roberts has done in the past and from the way SC is being marketed currently, I think my money would be safer with a Jita ISK Doubler (Is Erotica1 anywhere around? I heard he's a legit ISK doubler, 100% return rate and you even get a bonus!) than with Cloud Imperium Games.

Jita? Omg, tell him to move to Jata, that's where all the highrollers gonna be at. No more old fashioned doubling spreadsheets! We livin' in teh future baby! Deluxe Business Hangars for all UEE credit doublers!

The reason is to be able to make the game as best as it possibly can be without investors/ publishers constantly asking when it'll be done or having features removed to shorten the developement of the game, making it less than it could be and cheaper to make otherwise.....Now he's got all the money he needs( and then some) and let's see if he pulls this off.


If it does, it gives a strong message to others to basically give the finger to publishers or investors and also try public funding to make their game the way they want it to be.

This is all well and fine, but remember game design, in this context, is a business and should be viewed in business terms. Crowd funding is a very valuable tool if implemented properly. Regardless, whether the money comes from an investor, publisher or donor, that money is being given to achieve an end result. More importantly, it should be proportionate to the result looking to be achieved.

In this case, the amount of money that have already been donated given away is grossly disproportionate to the amount of return being provided back, along with no real timeline for a final return. MOREOVER and CR has no legal obligation to even finish working on the game. He can fold it up tonight and just walk away and every single person who gave their faith, hearts and wallets would be left without any recourse.

The one thing that publishers and investors do very well is ensure the product actually reaches the market. (The quality of the product is a separate discussion) If it does not, investors, with at least two brain cells to run together, will have drafted enough paperwork to recoup as much of their initial investment through collateral/loan guarantees.

It's just how smart business gets done, and a game actually reach the market.

I'm not saying that him using crowd funding is the scam. Far from it, its a great way to get money to get something going. My problem is, there is nothing to show. Not a damn thing. There is a nice website, some random video's, and interviews. Take the Oculus Rift for example, they said 'hey we have this product, we need money to fund it.. on BTW here is a prototype you can see if you go here' Just like you would if you went to a big investor with a new product. As stated CR can just take the money and run, or make an inferior product and not have to give anything back. It would of been smarter, for him to get the startup funds he needs to have his core game play, then start alpha testing or demoing it, then ask for more. Hes not doing that. It makes me not have a lot of hope esp when what he is trying to do sounds complex as hell and more then likely will not work well in practice. But hey, we will know in a year or so who is right and who is wrong. Simple as that.

Actually, the hangar is already released since september of last year, and one can view some of the ships from the outside and inside the ship itself....The amount of detail on a constellation is remarquable, as they have fully functioning manned turrets, galley, sleeping beds and even a toilet and shower that works and one can walk freely inside the ship.


So if this is the amount of detail planned, one can imagine once the dogfighting alpha gets released next month, and both smaller ships and bigger ships than the constellation are being flown in big dogfights...You'll need a super computer to run this thing and CIG already went on record as saying the game will require 8GB of memory to even run it, never mind running it optimally.


As for the rest, read my previous post on the terms of agreement.....

True, but as an early backer people can try out at least parts of the game well before it's anywhere near retail release, even contribute their opinions as the development process evolves, not to mention full lifetime insurance on ships(LT1), so even in a dogfight that you don't want to participate, you'll never really lose your ship anyhow.


But the above requires a leap of faith and i see you don't have much of it given your last several posts.

And his reputation completely ruined too....

If by twisted concepts, you mean how to watch my money and not fall for empty promises? Then sure, I'm all bent out of shape.



Capisco la tua mancanza o intelletto richiede la necessità per voi di devolvere in attacchi personali.

Additionally, Sugiero corregir su actitud para reflejar el tono correcto de los temas que se están discutiendo.

Unless being banned is thing now.

We've been thru tons of empty promises from CCP regarding EVE where some of the content, in some cases worked on for years( walking in stations) turned out with nothing but a captains quarters where you can sit down and change your apearance, and it only took 5 years and thru all that time all the subcribers payed every month.


By comparison, star citizen only started a little over a year ago, went to moving towards larger installations and hiring a lot more staff, and still got the hangar done and i can walk around inside my ship wich has all those functions i mentioned above actually working, so the metric of who's failing to deliver should be changed quite a bit if we're comparing EVE to star citizen....