These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Rubicon 1.1] Omnidirectional Tracking Links

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#381 - 2014-02-03 00:57:56 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
Ace Echo wrote:
Bertrand Butler wrote:
MarekCZE wrote:

I have 3 in ship and its worst than ratting in dreadnought... i think they even dont work... somebody should bash
up Fozzie to death... seriously and his boss too... i realy sometimes wonder where CCP hiring people who can devolution game...


OMG my omnis are nerfed, they don't work at all now in PvE because I have to get 10km closer..WTFBBQ seriously bash the developer to death.

adapt or perish. either is fine.



THIS so hard. The omni change nerfed 25% of my range and 25% of my tracking, forcing me from 180km to 130km. And, you know what, I'll be f***ing fine. I still have better projected DPS than some marauders in my t1 BS.




However, what I AM a bit confused about is the relatively heavy nerf to FedNav Omnis. Right now they only give a 1% opt and 2% falloff bonus when scripted over t2. They do give an extra 5% tracking over t2 when scripted for that. Why can't we have a better optimal boost on the FedNavs, considering tracking was what most people were claiming was OP about sentries in the first place?



I haven't checked this to be sure but my guess is the faction gun tracking mods Fozzie copied the stats from are 1%/2% better than T2.
Yeah he just copy pasted faction tracking computer. My federation omnilinks are loltastic and I'm sad I was unable to dump them on the market before people realize the change was coming :(

Your T1 BS is obviously a dominix and that ship is an exception as it has an OP level hull bonus.



The whole copy and paste thing is ridiculous anyway, why on earth would anyone assume "balanced" figures for gun tracking
would automatically be balanced for sentry drones? Two entirely different weapon systems, used in totally different ways.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#382 - 2014-02-03 15:34:57 UTC
I really dislike the changes, but I've adapted so I'll live. Miss the 70KM range on my Gardes though - made PVE a breeze :(

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Ace Echo
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#383 - 2014-02-03 16:18:40 UTC
KickAss Tivianne wrote:
With a 10 second activation time, it does not auto repeat. It is a pain to constantly having to turn it on during the fight. Wish that alone would be changed.


There's a configurable setting for auto-repeat, and for some reason Omnis default to off. Just right-click your module, and turn Auto-Repeat on.

If you can milk it, it's an udder.
Elfi Wolfe
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#384 - 2014-02-03 16:45:40 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
I really dislike the changes, but I've adapted so I'll live. Miss the 70KM range on my Gardes though - made PVE a breeze :(

On the domi with 3 OTL2 optimal range has dropped from 70 to 60, but the falloff range is up to 90 or 100.
To the domi it is just a few minor adjustments.

"Please point to the place on the doll where the carebear touched you."
Waitingpls wtf
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#385 - 2014-02-03 19:52:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Waitingpls wtf
CCP you would like to balance guns and sentries?

Sentries are static, can't shoot when ship move ( you have to scope them and if so you can't shoot with them or
you don't scope them and you lose them)

- no skills for tracking in comparing turrets
- no skills for falloff in comparing turrets
- no skill for rate of fire in comparing turrets
- no invulnerability to damage as normal turrets

and please overheat to drones too :)
KickAss Tivianne
Lohengrin Legion
#386 - 2014-02-03 21:11:34 UTC
Ace Echo wrote:
KickAss Tivianne wrote:
With a 10 second activation time, it does not auto repeat. It is a pain to constantly having to turn it on during the fight. Wish that alone would be changed.


There's a configurable setting for auto-repeat, and for some reason Omnis default to off. Just right-click your module, and turn Auto-Repeat on.



Ah yes... I saw it on there as "Set Auto repeat on", thinking that it was on.. but it was really a question... Derp.

Thanks!
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#387 - 2014-02-04 16:12:27 UTC
Its time for a drone dev blog. Both to address the future of drones, and the recent changes that were offered up in Rubicon 1.1 with no explanation.

This is the kind of communications breakdown that CCP has repeatedly promised in recent years to eliminate.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Mazer Rackahm
Jolly Nomads
#388 - 2014-02-04 19:39:22 UTC
It almost feels like I have to downgrade hulls to the domi just to maintain range. I love my Rattlesnake so I will never do that (downgrade) Adapt or perish someone said a few posts ago. I think I hear other games calling my name. Couldn't have put it any better myself @Waitingpls wtf
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#389 - 2014-02-04 20:19:47 UTC
Hey everyone.

I want to officially clarify that the fact that drone attributes are not properly displaying in show info is a bug and that your Omnis are in fact applying their bonuses correctly.
The issue with show info is a long standing bug that has to do with the way the client displays attributes on items that aren't your ship (or directly fitted to your ship). We're looking into getting it fixed, but it's not a simple issue.

As for the discussion on the strength of Sentry drones after this change, I will reiterate what I've said before. We don't want to make Sentries just like other weapons, the fact that they are very distinct with their own strengths, weaknesses and tactics is part of what makes them valuable to the game. We do always want to ensure that they have excellent strengths to make up for their special weaknesses.
But the honest truth is that Sentries were too good relative to other comparable weapons. Their damage envelope (the combination of range, damage and tracking) is very good and was one of several contributing factors that were leading to Sentries becoming overly dominant in almost all areas of EVE. Like I said in the original post, the fact that these changes reduce the power of Omnis is completely intentional.
Nerfing the base stats of sentries while leaving the incredibly effective Omnis was not going to be the best way to approach the issue, as that would leave us in a place where Sentries would have been underpowered when no Omnis are fitted and overpowered when people stack lots of them. We totally understand that bringing Omnidirectionals in line was a bitter pill to swallow for people who use Sentries a lot, but we are confident that the game is in a better place with these changes then it would be without them.

There are obviously lots of other changes we need to make to drones and the ships that use them, but the best way to approach these kinds of issues is in an iterative manner, making focused changes and watching the results carefully.

We also are aware that the Rattlesnake isn't in quite as strong of a place as many other Pirate BS right now, and that is high on our agenda at the moment.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
stoicfaux
#390 - 2014-02-04 20:48:23 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We also are aware that the Rattlesnake isn't in quite as strong of a place as many other Pirate BS right now, and that is high on our agenda at the moment.

Change the missile range bonus to a RoF bonus, add a 5th launcher, maybe one more high slot, and top it off by adding a few mini Raven wings to the Rattlesnake model and call it a day. You can send the check to...

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#391 - 2014-02-04 21:45:38 UTC
speaking of the snake when till tiericide come back? it seems all we got for 1.1 was a new ship and metacide.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#392 - 2014-02-04 22:37:07 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

But the honest truth is that Sentries were too good relative to other comparable weapons. Their damage envelope (the combination of range, damage and tracking) is very good and was one of several contributing factors that were leading to Sentries becoming overly dominant in almost all areas of EVE. Like I said in the original post, the fact that these changes reduce the power of Omnis is completely intentional.

It's good that you guys are still looking at sentry drones from this angle. I can't imagine that you guys would actually see things this way, but just to be perfectly clear: I would caution to not conflate the ending of the Halloween war as calling the sentry "issue" resolved. The drawdown currently occurring in the South isn't because sentry drones fell "out of favor" due to the Omnidirectional Tracking Link change, it's because the power of sentry drones was so great that the only escalation option left to defeat massed sentry carriers supported by un-"EWAR"able supercarriers was to doomsday them off the face of the galaxy. Makes for good press, sure, but now that the press potential has been spent, I feel it's a great time to visit the sentry drones themselves again, or perhaps the carriers that use them, lest the entirety of the subcapital ship line be marginalized and a mandatory one year training time becomes the norm for entering nullsec. (The Character Bazaar will run out of pilots eventually.)

Or, to put it another way, even though my faction "won" against massed sentry drone doctrines using a non-sentry-drone counter, it's still a good idea to keep on trucking with this change. Eve will be better for it.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#393 - 2014-02-04 22:55:05 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
speaking of the snake when till tiericide come back? it seems all we got for 1.1 was a new ship and metacide.


"Tiericide" is over, as there are no more ship tiers left in EVE. Overall ship balance work will continue as always.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Novah Soul
#394 - 2014-02-04 23:11:04 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
speaking of the snake when till tiericide come back? it seems all we got for 1.1 was a new ship and metacide.


"Tiericide" is over, as there are no more ship tiers left in EVE. Overall ship balance work will continue as always.

Is there an ETA on when the pirate hulls will gone over? I assume it will be on a class-by-class basis (frig -> cruiser -> BS) rather then a full overhaul at the same time.

A man is known by the quality of his friends. - Lex Luthor
MuraSaki Siki
ChuangShi
Fraternity.
#395 - 2014-02-05 01:15:45 UTC
looking forward to see the drone skills + attributes overhaul~
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#396 - 2014-02-05 01:27:16 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

We also are aware that the Rattlesnake isn't in quite as strong of a place as many other Pirate BS right now, and that is high on our agenda at the moment.

Maybe this is a hint that they will give the RS the same bonus as the Domi?

Any comment about maybe sentry drones are OP because of the drone assist mechanics and not actually tracking links? Meaning a fast locking ship with a whole bunch of sentry drones assisted to it can insta pop anything subcap off the field. That might be the reasn they are so popular Big smile
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#397 - 2014-02-05 01:34:07 UTC
MuraSaki Siki wrote:
looking forward to see the drone skills + attributes overhaul~

You want this or did someone at CCP say this is going to happen? Sorry if I missed a post.

I would love it if they made they drone AI a bit smarter like the NPC AI. For example light drones on aggressive would attack frigates over battleships. Also when "Focus Fire" is check all 5 drones attack a single target.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#398 - 2014-02-05 02:49:39 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:


We also are aware that the Rattlesnake isn't in quite as strong of a place as many other Pirate BS right now, and that is high on our agenda at the moment.





You think ??

BPC sell ... as at 5 minutes ago, there are several on contract in Jita at 228 million.
Mat cost ... (Jita Buy @ MP 5) 146 million.

So the build cost of a Rattlesnake is currently 374 million. (actually a nice margin in making them except they may never sell and you could get stuck with them)

The Rattler actually needs the Domi/Ishtar tracking and optimal bonuses, even if it loses the drone damage bonus to get them.
poppeteer
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#399 - 2014-02-05 04:30:26 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone.

I want to officially clarify that the fact that drone attributes are not properly displaying in show info is a bug and that your Omnis are in fact applying their bonuses correctly.
The issue with show info is a long standing bug that has to do with the way the client displays attributes on items that aren't your ship (or directly fitted to your ship). We're looking into getting it fixed, but it's not a simple issue.

Can you expand a bit here Fozzie? Prior to the patch show info on drones in certain use cases worked just fine. Is this a case of having to break what existed further, so as to lay the groundwork to iterate on? Or did it just get completely broken?
Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
#400 - 2014-02-05 05:42:16 UTC
Novah Soul wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
speaking of the snake when till tiericide come back? it seems all we got for 1.1 was a new ship and metacide.


"Tiericide" is over, as there are no more ship tiers left in EVE. Overall ship balance work will continue as always.

Is there an ETA on when the pirate hulls will gone over? I assume it will be on a class-by-class basis (frig -> cruiser -> BS) rather then a full overhaul at the same time.

^^^This