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[Rubicon 1.1] Omnidirectional Tracking Links

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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#261 - 2014-01-25 14:54:47 UTC
Minnie Ryder wrote:
Not only damn the feedback, damn testing to hell as well apparently.

Was just on the test server, and its still the same as before - no indication of having an omnidir on or off, scripted or not. And the launched drones still doesn't display hull bonuses even.

I'm not particularly surprised, but ham fisted is the least I can say about this whole shenanigan.


Are you really surprised?
Given fozzie's track record, this is standard practice.
Nothing like, what, 5 or 6 business days to test and give feedback on a huge nerf with massive implications.
These changes go live Tuesday, no matter how bad they are.

fozzie's style is "I know best, and I never make mistakes, and only my view of the game matters".
Priestess Lin
Darkfall Corp
#262 - 2014-01-25 15:15:28 UTC
More thoughtless, reactionary nerfs from CCP. Because its not like sentry drone users aren't gimped enough by having to remain stationary and needing to fit several drone control range mods.

Haven't you learned yet not to listen to the biased herd?

When discussing weaknesses of heavy drones vs fast frigates: baltec1- " A thanatos with a flight of geckos killed a bomber gang while AFK. So yea, they track frigates just fine." https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4678049#post4678049
Benjamin Hamburg
Chaos.Theory
#263 - 2014-01-25 15:54:01 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
This type of drones needs alot more nerfs, also remove drone assist from the game.


Drones, in general (AI, UI, mechanics, etc) are ****, and you propose to make them shitier if that's even possible.

Please, get out.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#264 - 2014-01-25 16:47:41 UTC
All i see is people crying about their overpowered toys being balanced. You guys only care about your precious isk/hour, even if it means keeping the game broken.

The Tears Must Flow
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#265 - 2014-01-25 17:54:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Arsine Mayhem
Vaju Enki wrote:
All i see is people crying about their overpowered toys being balanced. You guys only care about your precious isk/hour, even if it means keeping the game broken.


Yes, and goon alt crying, which are the biggest cry babies in the game, begging for nerfs simply cause they suck and are getting spanked even with outnumbering their opponent by 3 and 4 to 1.

We love all the goon tears though.
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#266 - 2014-01-25 20:55:38 UTC
New version of pyfa setup for omni changes.

https://github.com/DarkFenX/Pyfa/releases
Lister Vindaloo
5 Tons of Flax
#267 - 2014-01-25 22:56:05 UTC
I thought they'd really gotten their act together, seeking feedback from the community and then modifying their intentions based on that feedback, but to make a change like this with no time at all to respond to feedback is ridiculous.
I'm not a 100M sp bitter vet, but even I can see that this 'balance' is targeted at sentry drones, correct me if I'm wrong but, OTL's affect all types of drones don't they? Has ANY thought gone into how this will affect non-sentry drone users? I'm too bad at this game to do the maths but I fly Gal drone boats 90% of the time, so I'm pretty good with the changes considering my drone bonuses, sucks to fly an unbonused hull though.
This is something you should have thought about sooner and implemented later......
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#268 - 2014-01-25 23:30:00 UTC
Lister Vindaloo wrote:
I thought they'd really gotten their act together, seeking feedback from the community and then modifying their intentions based on that feedback, but to make a change like this with no time at all to respond to feedback is ridiculous.
I'm not a 100M sp bitter vet, but even I can see that this 'balance' is targeted at sentry drones, correct me if I'm wrong but, OTL's affect all types of drones don't they? Has ANY thought gone into how this will affect non-sentry drone users? I'm too bad at this game to do the maths but I fly Gal drone boats 90% of the time, so I'm pretty good with the changes considering my drone bonuses, sucks to fly an unbonused hull though.
This is something you should have thought about sooner and implemented later......


It was thought through.
the dev in question has a long track record of hating any PvE income generation, particularly in high sec.
This is just his latest attack.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#269 - 2014-01-25 23:43:38 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
All i see is people crying about their overpowered toys being balanced. You guys only care about your precious isk/hour, even if it means keeping the game broken.


Even though you're trolling, your post is apt to quote.

Drones were never overpowered in PvE (your 'isk/hour' remark assures me that is what you refer to). If(when) I wanted to feel 'overpowered' I would wheel out the TFI, marauder or a machariel...drone boats were just FUN.

My 'isk/hour' hasn't taken a hit, it'll go up because my favoured boats will no longer be fun so I'll be flying the stupid boats, like the rest of EvE.

Oh well.
Celia Therone
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#270 - 2014-01-25 23:48:02 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
With the at some point upcoming pirate ship rebalance I wonder what is in store for the RS. As is it's rather subpar compared to the domi since the BS round of changes and is now pretty objectively nerfed unless you load 4+ mids with scripted Omnis, which in many cases I imagine is more slots to then than is currently used for most drone ships/fits. The same of course can be said for any drone bonused ship without damage application bonuses, which enhances the feeling of sliding into obsolescence. Even the upcoming Nestor, in it's already lackluster state, is going to further suffer due to this.

As I recall the balance team has stated that they think that the Rattlesnake and Gila are in a good place right now (this was before the omnidirectional change) so the implication was that they aren't going to get much love in the pirate faction re-balance.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#271 - 2014-01-26 04:19:23 UTC
Celia Therone wrote:

As I recall the balance team has stated that they think that the Rattlesnake and Gila are in a good place right now (this was before the omnidirectional change) so the implication was that they aren't going to get much love in the pirate faction re-balance.


Anyone who things the Rattlesnake is in a good place right now is totally clueless.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Andrea Keuvo
Rusty Pricks
#272 - 2014-01-26 08:39:14 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Celia Therone wrote:

As I recall the balance team has stated that they think that the Rattlesnake and Gila are in a good place right now (this was before the omnidirectional change) so the implication was that they aren't going to get much love in the pirate faction re-balance.


Anyone who things the Rattlesnake is in a good place right now is totally clueless.



Yes, and these are also the same people who control the game we put our time/money into. Not good.
Zulu PG
Perkone
Caldari State
#273 - 2014-01-26 10:04:52 UTC
Dear CCP Fozzie,

It has been 10 days now since you announced the change of OTL and there have been several points from the community, which you should really reply to, since it is only two days before this change goes live.

1. By saying "the best primary method to balance the upsides of Sentry Drones is through the drones themselves", why are no chagnes to drones implemented? Since some people got it right and see it as an overall nerf to sentry drones and not just to the module. Basically the change means, that there will be no thermal damage available for sentry users, where there was freedom of damage type before. I think this question is releveant especially because you said the follwong: "We believe that with these changes Sentry Drones will still be very viable and popular weapon systems, and that the results will be a better set of choices for players to make when fitting and flying". A justified question by the community was then, why not have a longe range and a short range version of all drone types, so that there is still freedom of damage type at close range and at sniping range?

2. The community understands that this change intends to nerf the capability of Gardes to shoot with very good tracking and very high dps from very far ranges. But it was pointed out that this is basically only the case with the bonused hulls (Dominix and Ishtar). What is the explanation for crippling the damage potential of the unbonused hulls (Rattlesnake, Stratios, Proteus, Vexor etc.)?

3. Also pointed out by the community is, that this change seems to primary affect sentry usage in fleet fights. If this is true (and it very much seems so), why not directly removing or altering the drone assist?

4. You said "The results of this change for Omni balance are that pilots will now need to choose between having excellent range bonuses and excellent tracking bonuses", but this was a false statement, because in fact now drone users have to choose between "excelent tracking" and "just better" range, why not keep the choice at either 30% tracking or 30% range?

5. Of course we expect more changes in the future, but can you hint us in which direction the sentry drones are expected to evolve? Since it might be a hard choice for new players to invest a lot of SP into a weapon system they might not have wanted to learn and use after all the changes.

By saying: "These changes will be live on SISI very soon for your testing, and we as always thank you in advance for your constructive and useful feedback." I think that you should deliver at least one statement which covers the main points of critic and also positive feedback (which basically did not exist) to these changes, else your whole post of of would have missed the target of receiving feedback if all feedback is ignored.

Please remember: only two days left until a change goes live which seems to be not a very well balanced one. But maybe the community will change its mind after an explanation of yours.

Thank you

Z
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#274 - 2014-01-26 12:34:34 UTC
Zulu PG wrote:
Dear CCP Fozzie,

It has been 10 days now since you announced the change of OTL and there have been several points from the community, which you should really reply to, since it is only two days before this change goes live.

1. By saying "the best primary method to balance the upsides of Sentry Drones is through the drones themselves", why are no chagnes to drones implemented? Since some people got it right and see it as an overall nerf to sentry drones and not just to the module. Basically the change means, that there will be no thermal damage available for sentry users, where there was freedom of damage type before. I think this question is releveant especially because you said the follwong: "We believe that with these changes Sentry Drones will still be very viable and popular weapon systems, and that the results will be a better set of choices for players to make when fitting and flying". A justified question by the community was then, why not have a longe range and a short range version of all drone types, so that there is still freedom of damage type at close range and at sniping range?

2. The community understands that this change intends to nerf the capability of Gardes to shoot with very good tracking and very high dps from very far ranges. But it was pointed out that this is basically only the case with the bonused hulls (Dominix and Ishtar). What is the explanation for crippling the damage potential of the unbonused hulls (Rattlesnake, Stratios, Proteus, Vexor etc.)?

3. Also pointed out by the community is, that this change seems to primary affect sentry usage in fleet fights. If this is true (and it very much seems so), why not directly removing or altering the drone assist?

4. You said "The results of this change for Omni balance are that pilots will now need to choose between having excellent range bonuses and excellent tracking bonuses", but this was a false statement, because in fact now drone users have to choose between "excelent tracking" and "just better" range, why not keep the choice at either 30% tracking or 30% range?

5. Of course we expect more changes in the future, but can you hint us in which direction the sentry drones are expected to evolve? Since it might be a hard choice for new players to invest a lot of SP into a weapon system they might not have wanted to learn and use after all the changes.

By saying: "These changes will be live on SISI very soon for your testing, and we as always thank you in advance for your constructive and useful feedback." I think that you should deliver at least one statement which covers the main points of critic and also positive feedback (which basically did not exist) to these changes, else your whole post of of would have missed the target of receiving feedback if all feedback is ignored.

Please remember: only two days left until a change goes live which seems to be not a very well balanced one. But maybe the community will change its mind after an explanation of yours.

Thank you

Z



because currently Sentries are Overpowered. Even on unbonused range hulls.

They allow an armageddon for a clear example to have more effective damage projection and extra high slot resources thatn ANY turret ship.

Just check on TQ.. how much harder is to fit an abaddon do do damage at same range an armageddon does... with same level of tank and then armageddon can still sport NEuts, RR and stuff like that.

Simply... Sentry droens + omni links are OVERPOWERED.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#275 - 2014-01-26 13:20:00 UTC
If you think unbonused sentries are overpowered, you should see what a real DPS boat can do.

Take a rattlesnake, I can outdamage that at any range it is capable of with a TFI, or a CNR. That's today, never mind once omis take the nerf bat to the face.

So the question remains, why are we hobbling unbonused hulls when the actual issue here, is the bonused hulls. Why are T1 battleships better drone boats than the pirate or navy equivalents?
Zulu PG
Perkone
Caldari State
#276 - 2014-01-26 14:38:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Zulu PG
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Zulu PG wrote:
Dear CCP Fozzie,

It has been 10 days now since you announced the change of OTL and there have been several points from the community, which you should really reply to, since it is only two days before this change goes live.

1. By saying "the best primary method to balance the upsides of Sentry Drones is through the drones themselves", why are no chagnes to drones implemented? Since some people got it right and see it as an overall nerf to sentry drones and not just to the module. Basically the change means, that there will be no thermal damage available for sentry users, where there was freedom of damage type before. I think this question is releveant especially because you said the follwong: "We believe that with these changes Sentry Drones will still be very viable and popular weapon systems, and that the results will be a better set of choices for players to make when fitting and flying". A justified question by the community was then, why not have a longe range and a short range version of all drone types, so that there is still freedom of damage type at close range and at sniping range?

2. The community understands that this change intends to nerf the capability of Gardes to shoot with very good tracking and very high dps from very far ranges. But it was pointed out that this is basically only the case with the bonused hulls (Dominix and Ishtar). What is the explanation for crippling the damage potential of the unbonused hulls (Rattlesnake, Stratios, Proteus, Vexor etc.)?

3. Also pointed out by the community is, that this change seems to primary affect sentry usage in fleet fights. If this is true (and it very much seems so), why not directly removing or altering the drone assist?

4. You said "The results of this change for Omni balance are that pilots will now need to choose between having excellent range bonuses and excellent tracking bonuses", but this was a false statement, because in fact now drone users have to choose between "excelent tracking" and "just better" range, why not keep the choice at either 30% tracking or 30% range?

5. Of course we expect more changes in the future, but can you hint us in which direction the sentry drones are expected to evolve? Since it might be a hard choice for new players to invest a lot of SP into a weapon system they might not have wanted to learn and use after all the changes.

By saying: "These changes will be live on SISI very soon for your testing, and we as always thank you in advance for your constructive and useful feedback." I think that you should deliver at least one statement which covers the main points of critic and also positive feedback (which basically did not exist) to these changes, else your whole post of of would have missed the target of receiving feedback if all feedback is ignored.

Please remember: only two days left until a change goes live which seems to be not a very well balanced one. But maybe the community will change its mind after an explanation of yours.

Thank you

Z



because currently Sentries are Overpowered. Even on unbonused range hulls.

They allow an armageddon for a clear example to have more effective damage projection and extra high slot resources thatn ANY turret ship.

Just check on TQ.. how much harder is to fit an abaddon do do damage at same range an armageddon does... with same level of tank and then armageddon can still sport NEuts, RR and stuff like that.

Simply... Sentry droens + omni links are OVERPOWERED.


1.Please don't missunderstand me. I'm neither against nor for this change. I just think that in the last 10 days several points have been mentioned by the community but not addressed by the developer.

2. You have a very good point there which leads me to a further inquiry:
Please provide detailed information about why, when and how OTL's are overpoered. This means, the sentry drone carrying hulls involved, the enemy/enemies of that hull and the combat situation. Please also provide a comparison for that hull with a different but comparable, non sentry, hull which clearly prooves that the tracking link provides overpoweredness in the given situaltion. Please take also take the disadvantages of sentries into account and do not just see them as turrets with very good range and tracking.

I think an explanation should provide enough ground for CCP Fozzie that the community accepsts this change. If no explanation is given it would not only be a hit against this community who delivered the asked- and thanked-in-advance for feedback concerning this change but also against CCP Fozzie who gets a bad image for introducing big changes without justification and for not working with the community.

I am sure that the developers are very busy at giving all of us a better game experience, but there must be time for explanation.

Thank you once again

Z
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#277 - 2014-01-26 15:25:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
If you think unbonused sentries are overpowered, you should see what a real DPS boat can do.

Take a rattlesnake, I can outdamage that at any range it is capable of with a TFI, or a CNR. That's today, never mind once omis take the nerf bat to the face.

So the question remains, why are we hobbling unbonused hulls when the actual issue here, is the bonused hulls. Why are T1 battleships better drone boats than the pirate or navy equivalents?



But can you outdamage an armageddon or dominix WHILE fieldign 6 NEUTS at same time?

oo right.. YOU CANNOT!

Normal domi is better than navy domi because nooblets whined that the changes to the dominix were a nerf ( as I said noobs) and then rise kep the navy domi as the useless mix od hibrids and drones to kepe them happy.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
SuperBeastie
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#278 - 2014-01-26 16:18:22 UTC
Nerf battleships they should only be able to hit things with 300 sig or greater for full damage. one class of ship under just like titans because being dunked by a battleship in a frigate is unfair if i only want to fly sup frigates there should be no downside.

[center]SuperBeastie's Third Party Service My in-game Channel is Supers Third Party[/center]
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#279 - 2014-01-26 16:24:25 UTC
SuperBeastie wrote:
Nerf battleships they should only be able to hit things with 300 sig or greater for full damage. one class of ship under just like titans because being dunked by a battleship in a frigate is unfair if i only want to fly sup frigates there should be no downside.



That is not the point. THe point is the WITHIN ship class balance. Snetry boats were much more pwoerful thatn turret ones.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#280 - 2014-01-26 16:27:40 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
If you think unbonused sentries are overpowered, you should see what a real DPS boat can do.

Take a rattlesnake, I can outdamage that at any range it is capable of with a TFI, or a CNR. That's today, never mind once omis take the nerf bat to the face.

So the question remains, why are we hobbling unbonused hulls when the actual issue here, is the bonused hulls. Why are T1 battleships better drone boats than the pirate or navy equivalents?



But can you outdamage an armageddon or dominix WHILE fieldign 6 NEUTS at same time?

oo right.. YOU CANNOT!

Normal domi is better than navy domi because nooblets whined that the changes to the dominix were a nerf ( as I said noobs) and then rise kep the navy domi as the useless mix od hibrids and drones to kepe them happy.


If I was using Neuts, I'd be using heavies.