Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Yes, yes… A frigate only has a lot to worry about if it's a) alone, b) doesn't have any ancillary boosters and c) the player wielding the RLMLs pre-selected the wrong ammunition. On the other hand, if the ship sporting the RLMLs encounters more than a single frigate or runs into sensor damps or ECM - it's equally hooped.

Those of you purporting to claim RLMLs are "op" have put forward the most pathetic and weak arguments. It's abundantly clear to those of us who've actually used them that most of you don't have a ****ing clue what you're talking about. In any event, with Rubicon 1.1 out in 4 days - I welcome our new robot (drone) overlords…

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Yes, that means turret users actually have to do something to get damage on target (mitigating transversal), where missile pilots just have to avoid getting caught. We have to add TE or TC to get fall-off at a reasonable distance, missiles do not. Missile users just add BCU's and thats it. Then complain that their hams or heavy missiles apply for ****.

You want max tank and gank, then complain when missiles hit poorly. Yes, heavy missiles and hams don't apply max damage to FRIGATES. Thats what RLML are for. Just like medium turrets don't track frigates well (unless the frig pilot is stupid and burns straight towards you).

With 2 webs, thats it, HML can apply max damage with fury ammo to a ScyFI. So your daredevil web would be adequate for HML against a cruiser.

With HAMs, web/scram apply very close to max DPS, maybe 1-2% drop. So, if your issue is with the caracal, then start saying you want it bufffed. And stop whining about RLML/HAMs.

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I think that you are missing the point entirely. The problem was never that HAMs and Heavies couldn't hit frigs for full damage. The problem is that Heavies cant apply even a fraction of their damage to a cruiser in any scenario. Heavies can only hit BC's and up with acceptable damage. While hams can hit cruisers, and have similar range to other short range systems, they do not apply damage instantly, unlike every other system. Missile have to travel that distance to a target. I've seen my hams do 0 damage, I've seen them completely disappear trying to hit someone. Yes missiles almost always hit their target. They are missiles! Self guided projectiles with an explosive warhead. RLM's were a cruiser sized launcher that fired smaller sized missiles (which is why ammo capacity was higher). These smaller missiles are better at hitting smaller targets. Which is why they are used in that role. Smaller caliber cruiser sized turrets, particularly the "dual" versions are in fact double barreled frig-classed weapons designed for cruisers, and just like rlm's, they have massive ammo capacity. Despite the fact that they do less damage,they have significantly better tracking and lower fitting requirements than the larger sizes. They can also plow the field of frigs, although not as good as light missiles. Instead of bitching about rlm's having a smaller sig, you should be bitching about those dual barreled frig sized guns like dual 180s dual 150s, and dual 125's having such a large sig radius. For those wondering about why I didn't mention 220mm auto, I'm hesitant as while they are only slightly larger than 200mm Small arties they are not dual. Also, unlike turrets there are only 1 type or size/caliber of missiles, Short hams, and long heavies. It is unfair to assume that missile users can just sit back and hit everything. This is untrue. If someone is orbiting you close, hams will spiral out trying to catch them. Heavies will chase them around in circles until they travel their max distance or flight time. The missile mechanics in this game are flawed. I'm sick and tired of people bitching and moaning against missiles. In real life, missiles hit their targets almost always, but how they hit varies. A module on a naval warship, base defense, or plane use ecm to affect any missiles in its cone of fire. They also use point defense. Meaning it tries to disrupt the onboard guidance to make an incoming missile veer off course, explode prematurely, or shoot it down. Missiles can also inflict less damage to a fast moving target ( as the damage from the explosion velocity of the concussion wave is lessened) if you target is moving away from you. Also, the kinetic energy of shrapnel is lessened by same way.

Ok here are my thoughts on current Rapid Missile Launchers re-iteration: the right numbers would be 30 sec reload time - 29-33 ammo capacity for RLML(from meta 1 to T2) and 40-44 ammo capacity for RHML(also from meta 1 to T2).
Rate of fire should be improved to 1.5 seconds for RLML and 2 seconds for RHML. RHML launchers have heavier warheads to load so they must load a bit slower than RLML. This needs to be made in order for the RLML fitted Cruiser/BC/T3 and RHML BS to be able to kill their intended targets, that is a well tanked enemy frigate, or cruiser respectively, as the faster this launchers fire the harder would be for the enemy frigate/cruiser to rep itself.
Ammo swapping should be instant or 5 seconds max, in order to compensate for the long reload timers. I would agree with the idea of a script that reduces range by 25% and gives instead faster fire rate for RLML(from 1.5 to 1/sec) and RHML(from 2 to 1.5/sec), thus making them suitable as brawling or hit-and-run weapons.

Also I think Drake Navy should receive RLML damage bonuses as a special ability - that would compensate for his current lack of dps and give it a purpose - that of frigate hunter ^.

CCP Rise, I'm really disappointed with your latest effort to "improve" the rapid launchers. Despite the fact that you offered zero interaction in the original rapid heavy missile thread and announced the radical rapid launcher changes for Rubicon scant days before its release, I still gave you the benefit of the doubt and at least attempted to try them out in numerous scenarios. What adds injury to insult with the recent adjustment is that you've conveniently chosen to disregard close to 200 pages of feedback from players such as myself basically telling you that this weapon system is now broken. I can't speculate as to what the motivation has been to completely destroy missiles as a viable platform, but the in-game use outside of PvE speaks for themselves. Congratulations are in order, it seems.

Sorry Arthur but it seems you may have misinterpreted what is actually happening.

2 People in over 200 pages of posts said they liked the new RLML.

CCP Rise happened to see these posts and from that, RLML it seems are in an ok place for now, so we will knock 5 seconds off what is a ridiculously long reload time (and the basis of most complaints regarding the new launchers), simply to try and placate the other posters in the original RLML thread.

Which by the way had 8 posts added to it the day CCP Rise declared it dead and started a new thread. I suppose simply adding to a thread already 205 pages long, there was a chance the update from CCP Rise may have gotten lost and gone unseen.

I wonder if RLML & RHML were to become a part of Omega Fleet Doctrine would they get better treatment?

sorry about the double post.

Its a tradeoff that people must learn to accept. Missile do not care if enemy is too close, therefore they cannot HIDE by gettign close. The tradeoff is that missiles cannot use positioning to compensate for very small targets.


Matrix is:


-------------------Far and fast------Far and slow -------close and fast ------close and slow
Small target --------T-----------------T-------------------------none-----------------M
Large target --------M----------------either -----------------M----------------------either

This change will make RLML's extremely useful however,

in order for RLML's not to ruin HML's I think these changes need to also be implemented:

Buff HM's damage by 5-10%

reduce precision heavy missiles explosion radius by 8-12%.


All other HM stats to remain.

For those complaining about damage application:

A dual paint single rigor HML Caracal using faction missiles applies damage just fine to cruisers. Even Minmatar ones. It's precision missiles really struggle vs frigates though. This is where I feel the heavy missile really struggles. That and it needs a smidge extra damage like I said above

Not really. You need those to be able to apply damage to the smaller cruisers and if you want a chance to apply damage to a frigate it's a must.

If you suggest I should scrap those modules in favour of a web then I would be fitting HAMs not HMLs.

Here is a potential solution to the switch ammo and partial reload problem. Instead of having a fixed 40 or 35 second reload time. Have a fixed 10 second reload time and a variable Cooldown timer.

Every time you fire a missile the Cooldown timer clocks up 1.5 seconds. Every time you stop firing the Cooldown timer starts winding down. You can only reload when the Cooldown timer is at 0.

So lets give some examples, assume you start with 20 missiles loaded:

1. At the start of the battle, you want to change the ammo type. No cooldown timer, 10 second reload.

2. You fire all 20 missiles in one burst. 30 second Cooldown, 10 second Reload.

3. You fire 5 missiles in one burst then want to top up or change ammo type. 7.5 second Cooldown and 10 second reload.

The beauty is that you are not committed to the reload during the Cooldown period assuming you still have some missile left. You might stop firing midfight due to range issues, the initial target pops, you get ECM'd or damped out. The Cooldown timer runs down automatically. If you start firing again later, your Cooldown timer is not fully wound up firing off the last of the missiles, thus the reload is quicker.