Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Does nto need to be standign still. Just be webbed by a daredevil andyou have effectively the same scenario. Missiles will still loose a LOT of damage, while turrets will be able to hit almost Full damage on that scenario

Explosion size / sig is an independent element on missile formulae (in one of its options). You cannot compensate it with range and speed compensation like turrets can.

Also turrets are NOT all or nothing. They have degrees of hit quality that ARE influenced by the track formulae.

Also your deductions are wrong:


in the trackign formulae, if transversal is ZERO then the effect of signature is removed from the equation effectively. Then only range falloff chance applies.

i still miss the battleship boni to the missiles, otherwise are all bs just the same with rapid heavy.
I am not talking about rof, raven stands for range by missile velocity, navy scorp tank without projection bonus and the typhoon for projection against smaller ships.

but now its just rof bonus - stupid

add the range nerv of HM to this argument and you will still see few people using this because you need missile rigs to gain advantages.

The cruisers are also not broken with keeping the rang bonuses why did you exclude the bs out of this?

Well he can do the exact opposite. Make the reload be 23 HOURS but put 500 missiles per launcher :P

Unfortunately for the majority of missile users, there are a few who seem to have a very strong influence with the devs responsible for this change.
They actually think Burst Dps coupled with an overly long reload, is good based on the idea it is used successfully on another game.
So regardless of whether it is a failure or success, missile users are stuck with it. There is absolutely no point in asking for anything remotely similar to RLML prior to Rubicon. RLML as we new them are gone, what we are left with is something from another game that as time goes by may or may not work in Eve PVP

Can a small fleet of Rlml Caracals be productive in the pvp arena?
Typically a good FC is going to call targets so there is focused fire to dispatch individuals quickly..
RLML is designed as an anti frigate platform.
If all in fleet have good skills, it will take 1 volley from 10 RLML Caracals to dispatch a frigate. Problem is, combining missile travel time and fast firing rate a 2nd or maybe 3rd volley has launched before the 1st lands so wasted missiles flying off into nowhere.

So what we end up with is, a 15 man fleet, including logi and tackle, who can engage a frigate fleet of 10 and with luck kill them all before running out of missiles and having to warp off to reload. If the frigates happen to have a couple of cruisers and or logi with them, I would advise you not to go near them. At best your fleet will have to warp off to reload with egg on its face, worst case you just die horribly.

Lets presume you're intrested in an explanation and not trying to troll.


I'm not going in the discusion between turrets and missile launchers in general, it's been done a 100 times and more.

but aside from that.
HML and HAM, not only don't do full damage on Frigates, they don't do full damage on Cruisers either and even don't do full damage to a few battlescruisers.

It's nice that 2 webs might help you aply more damage with HML, though a bit sad that a long range missile ship needs to get in webs range, to aply it's damage.

and aside if the old RLML was or was not overpowered, it is no reason to just replace the system with something completly different.

OK... let's start again. In order to remove any ad-hominem element from this exchange I'm going start start by saying that I believe you and I both have a very strong grasp of mathematics. We both implicitly understand the damage application and tracking formulae and we are both able to envision damage graphs in our minds through understanding of the formulae.

I also believe that you and I both therefore implicitly understand the areas on this hypothetical mental multi-dimensional graph where each weapon system performs better than the other.

I think it's fair to say that when comparing HM with any short range medium gun, at short range, the short range gun will perform better than the missile. But that's because we're not comparing like with like.

Against a smaller target, both guns and missiles perform fairly closely to each other *on average*. HMs deliver consistently poor damage whatever the (moving) target does, long range guns deliver zero damage for most of the envelope, but can deliver a killing blow if the transversal velocity is sufficiently close to zero.

This is all provable through elementary mathematics if one has the time and inclination to do so (I trust we have both been through this process).

Where you and I may differ might be in our evaluation as to whether this situation is acceptable. For myself, I accept it. And I use both missiles and guns.

Its called a huginn/rapier. If you're in a missile gang its wise to bring one. Run some graphs with double web against a cruiser and heavies. You get all dps on target.

I know heavies and hams don't do full damage to a frig, that's the point. If that were the case all your weapon systems would be like rlml in application.

Yes.. lets use the most extreme case to rationalize your argument. Because every frig pilot flies in halo sets. And you really think a turret will track an orbiting, a/b fit dram with halos any better?

Now you just need to give the Drake a RLML bonus.

Rise pls.

PLS RISE