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Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#761 - 2014-01-21 14:52:29 UTC
I wonder if there are any estimates on how much this change will nerf lvl 4 and FW LP income value. I'm not too bothered if it does personally but just out of interest.
Mah Boobz
Doomheim
#762 - 2014-01-21 14:53:33 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:

And how exactly does that contribute to inflation? When does the LP store put ISK into the economy?


Apparently , Big Boobs dampen the ability to understand economics. they sure dampen my abilty to understand most things.
Well my boobees certainly help me, economically speaking. Do you like them? ;)

HAHAHA I'm derailing a thread, but your talking about pixelated boobs in an ESS discussion thread?
Billy McCandless
Zacharia Explorations Group
#763 - 2014-01-21 14:54:51 UTC
Mah Boobz wrote:

I'm derailing a thread



Derailing a thread is against the rules

Imma tell on you

"Thread locked for being deemed a total loss." - ISD Ezwal
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#764 - 2014-01-21 14:55:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Medalyn Isis wrote:
I wonder if there are any estimates on how much this change will nerf lvl 4 and FW LP income value. I'm not too bothered if it does personally but just out of interest.


I don't see how this has anything to do with FW Lp at all does anyone in FW buy the none unique nave stuff out of them?
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#765 - 2014-01-21 14:55:22 UTC
Mah Boobz wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Guys, stop feeding the derailing troll. She sounds like Ziona.


Proved wrong, so now let the personal attacks begin!

You called me dumb first, silly. :) I tried educating you, but your negative attitude marks you as a troll not worth the attention. If you really believe you know better, then create a thread in Market Discussions and prove us all wrong.

Good luck, Ziona. :)

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Erufen Rito
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#766 - 2014-01-21 14:56:13 UTC
Mah Boobz wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Mah Boobz wrote:


When you buy stuff with LP, that doesn't require isk (skill books, starbase charters)


Those items are (to the game) "isk neutral". They don't sink or create isk. They do serve to sread isk out by adding more items to the game.

Don't embarrass yourself further.


"isk neutral" so they have no isk value?
So I can't go sell skillbooks I got from LP out of thin air?

I'll explain for you.
Let's say, for the sake of this example, than the total ammount of isk is 100. I'm downscaling it quite a lot, with nice round numbers to make it easier to grasp.

So, to reiterate, everyone's wallets in game add up to 100 isk.
There is also 10 of the same kind of skillbooks, that can be purchased off of the LP store with LP only. Their isk value could be said to be 10:1. Now, if you amass enough LP to buy another 10 of the same kind of skillbooks without using isk, the net value of isk in the game is still 100, but now the net value of the skillbook is 20.
Now the ratio looks like 5:1, but you have not generated, created, nor injected isk into the game at all, you just spread it out into a bigger number of items.

That is knowk as ISK neutral, they neither add nor subtract isk from the game.

So the question stands. How does that generate inflation? Quite the opposite tbh, on that particular item anyway.

This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165
Kismeteer
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#767 - 2014-01-21 14:58:06 UTC
Mah Boobz wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:

And how exactly does that contribute to inflation? When does the LP store put ISK into the economy?


Apparently , Big Boobs dampen the ability to understand economics. they sure dampen my abilty to understand most things.
Well my boobees certainly help me, economically speaking. Do you like them? ;)

HAHAHA I'm derailing a thread, but your talking about pixelated boobs in an ESS discussion thread?


Did someone say boobies? I'll compete in this challenge.

It is a good change, but still not the best item. The size, new timers all help. I think they are still going to be rarely used by ratters themselves. But it should solve some of the other null sec ratting issues, changing an isk faucet to a sink, if they are honestly used.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#768 - 2014-01-21 14:59:15 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
I wonder if there are any estimates on how much this change will nerf lvl 4 and FW LP income value. I'm not too bothered if it does personally but just out of interest.


I don't see how this has anything to do with FW Lp at all does anyone in FW buy the none unique nave stuff out of them?

Ah true, I was mixing up FW LP and Navy LP.
Billy McCandless
Zacharia Explorations Group
#769 - 2014-01-21 15:04:30 UTC
Erufen Rito wrote:


So the question stands. How does that generate inflation? Quite the opposite tbh, on that particular item anyway.


Because they cost 0 isk, they cost you isk to buy them off me, you inject them, removing them from the game, and I keep the isk in the game.

Wait.

So the isk is still in the game?

If that isk came from any source that didnt exist before I made the book available (by generating it), then surely isk has just been added to the market?

If Im totally wrong, that's cool too, Im just trying to work out what you meant.

Not trying to argue, just figuring it out in my head.

"Thread locked for being deemed a total loss." - ISD Ezwal
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#770 - 2014-01-21 15:06:04 UTC
Yeah she really sounds like Ziona, but more aggressive. ^^

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Erufen Rito
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#771 - 2014-01-21 15:10:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Erufen Rito
Billy McCandless wrote:
Erufen Rito wrote:


So the question stands. How does that generate inflation? Quite the opposite tbh, on that particular item anyway.


Because they cost 0 isk, they cost you isk to buy them off me, you inject them, removing them from the game, and I keep the isk in the game.

Wait.

So the isk is still in the game?

If that isk came from any source that didnt exist before I made the book available (by generating it), then surely isk has just been added to the market?

If Im totally wrong, that's cool too, Im just trying to work out what you meant.

Not trying to argue, just figuring it out in my head.

Going back to my initial example. If all 500,000 of us took our wallets, and added up their number, it would equal to 100 isk (based on the parameters I set for my example). That is the net ammount of isk in the game at that point. With me still?

Now, if I use my share of the 100 isk, to purchase the item you just created out of LP, all I am doing is moving isk from my wallet to yours. This is because my isk is already there, it being generated from other sources (such as rat bounties, mission rewards etc). The net ammount of isk is still 100, after our transaction is completed

(the reason why i'm not using a percentage here is because 100% represents any number, in this case it's easier to deal with decimals.)

This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165
Billy McCandless
Zacharia Explorations Group
#772 - 2014-01-21 15:14:25 UTC
Erufen Rito wrote:

Going back to my initial example. If all 500,000 of us took our wallets, and added up their number, it would equal to 100 isk (based on the parameters I set for my example). That is the net ammount of isk in the game at that point. With me still?

Now, if I use my share of the 100 isk, to purchase the item you just created out of LP, all I am doing is moving isk from my wallet to yours. This is because my isk is already there, it being generated from other sources (such as rat bounties, mission rewards etc). The net ammount of isk is still 100, after our transaction is completed

(the reason why i'm not using a percentage here is because 100% represents any number, in this case it's easier to deal with decimals.)


Yes, good, Im glad I had worked it out right.

So yes, the book doesnt create the isk, as I was sure you meant, it is created by other means and so has no direct effect on market inflation because its the PLEX/Rats/Mission Rewards that are generating the new isk.

"Thread locked for being deemed a total loss." - ISD Ezwal
Tiberizzle
Your Mom Heavy Industries
#773 - 2014-01-21 15:14:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberizzle
BUBBLE

IMMUNITY

IMMUNITY



no but seriously

when are we getting the special edition shuttle with bubble immunity immunity immunity



no reason to stop there, add meta-level ESS with bubble immunity immunity immunity immunity



let's go full ****** and add an i-factor to any bubble-related mechanic to describe how many times the game mechanic has been waffled upon prior to the patch in which the affected feature was implemented

and hulls or modules with an even i-factor less than bubbles or modules with an odd i-factor become unable to warp unless a hull or mdoule with a higher i-factor is introduced into the bubble
Mah Boobz
Doomheim
#774 - 2014-01-21 15:15:30 UTC
Done trying to educate idiots, have fun.


Take the E.S.S. and put it in the A.S.S. Blink
embrel
BamBam Inc.
#775 - 2014-01-21 15:16:26 UTC
Mah Boobz wrote:
embrel wrote:
Mah Boobz wrote:

you realize, isk faucets and sinks are completely different from inflation right?


no, they're not. Inflation is all about faucets & sinks.

Fed = faucet and somehow - most of the times, just not now - the more the Fed-faucet is open, the higher the inflation will be.


/facepalmRoll


I'm sorry, I didn't take into account that you will not know what the Fed is. I didn't mean the guys busting your door in the search for pot...

but, got to admit, I fell for the troll.
Erufen Rito
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#776 - 2014-01-21 15:19:09 UTC
Another way to look at it would be as follows:

Again, the net ammount of isk in game is 100, which equals to 100%

I run missions, and generate 10 isk. Now the net ammount of isk in game is 110, which is now equal to 100%.
Then, I buy with isk and LP an item from the LP store, which costed me 5 isk, and 5LP. Now the net ammount of isk in game is 105, which is now equal to 100%.

What has happened here? There was a net growth of the ammount of isk in game of 5%. This means that now the isk is worth 5% less. This is what causes inflation. When you have a system that is printing out more money than it needs, the value of each unit of currency falls. You buy less with your money because there is simply more money in the entirety of the system. The point of balance would be to "cap" the isk at 100 units at all times (note, not 100%. There will always be 100% isk). The way to do it is to have an equal amount of sinks and faucets, to cancel each other out, and thus keep stable economy, with very little inflation derived from depreciation of the currency.

If we take into account supply vs demand scenarios, this whole model becomes a big ugly nasty monster that I'm not willing to expalin

This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165
Billy McCandless
Zacharia Explorations Group
#777 - 2014-01-21 15:21:45 UTC
Erufen Rito wrote:
Facts


Yay I got it right!

Gold star for me *pin*

Now I can be a cowboy

"Thread locked for being deemed a total loss." - ISD Ezwal
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#778 - 2014-01-21 15:24:34 UTC
embrel wrote:
Mah Boobz wrote:
embrel wrote:
Mah Boobz wrote:

you realize, isk faucets and sinks are completely different from inflation right?


no, they're not. Inflation is all about faucets & sinks.

Fed = faucet and somehow - most of the times, just not now - the more the Fed-faucet is open, the higher the inflation will be.


/facepalmRoll


I'm sorry, I didn't take into account that you will not know what the Fed is. I didn't mean the guys busting your door in the search for pot...

but, got to admit, I fell for the troll.

She's beaten and gave up. ^^

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
embrel
BamBam Inc.
#779 - 2014-01-21 15:24:51 UTC
Mah Boobz wrote:
Done trying to educate idiots, have fun.



That's what you told 'em in High-school too isn't it?
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#780 - 2014-01-21 15:25:04 UTC
Mah Boobz wrote:
From dumb to dumber.
Thanks for devaluing all 4 empire navy's LP.
It's not like the people that grinded standings and missions for LP should be rewarded, naa screw that, make it so EVERY RAT IN NULL gives out navy LP!!

Edit: running numbers, that's about 15k LP per hour @ BASE, more when it upgrades. (based on 30mil ticks)
(based on 1000 isk per lp ratio, that's 15 mil extra per hour, or 16.6% of your ratting income) mileage may very.
Tell me about how you want to avoid inflation again?


Each LP point, on average, destroys some amount of isk so the net effect of this will be to reduce the amount of isk entering the game. It's a fantastic solution to what seems to have been a core problem with balancing 0.0 properly - the fear of runaway isk generation.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.