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ESS Discussion Thread

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Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#721 - 2014-01-21 13:35:55 UTC
CCP SonicLover FTW \o/ :D

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#722 - 2014-01-21 13:37:03 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
I'm cross posting here a post from the dev blog discussion thread:

Here's a quick update on the changes we've made to the ESS, based on testing and feedback. There is a dev blog coming out tomorrow detailing these (and other changes) to the deployables in 1.1, but here's a basic overview.

Additions/edit
* With an active ESS in system, bounties pay out LP in addition to normal ISK reward. LP reward starts at 0.15 LP per 1000 ISK and can increase to 0.2 LP per 1000 ISK as the bonus payout increases. As an example, a bounty worth 1 million ISK (total) gives between 150 and 200 LPs, based on payout level. This is to address the risk vs. reward concerns. Thanks to those that suggested using LPs instead of ISK for balance.
* There is now no timer to open the ESS window where the player gets to choose to Share or Take all, but both options now have separate timers on them. Share has 20 seconds, Take all has 180 seconds. Moving out of range while the timer is ongoing resets the timer. This is to reduce the feasibility of having an alt sit at the ESS and quickly empty the pool when someone shows up.
* Interacting with the ESS now puts a warp disruption effect on the ship interacting with it. Ships immune to bubbles are not immune to this effect. This is to reduce the feasibility of using ships immune to bubbles for stealing purposes.

Also, some of the stats have changed:
* Price lowered from 30 million to 25 million
* Hit points increased from 150k to 250k
* Volume increased from 150 to 200
* Increased minimum range from stargates/stations to 3000 km, from 300.
* Activation time increased to 120 seconds, up from 60 seconds

Some of these changes are already out on Sisi, the rest should be there soon. Thank you all for your feedback.

That sounds really good :)

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#723 - 2014-01-21 13:50:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Infinity Ziona wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:
I'm cross posting here a post from the dev blog discussion thread:

Here's a quick update on the changes we've made to the ESS, based on testing and feedback. There is a dev blog coming out tomorrow detailing these (and other changes) to the deployables in 1.1, but here's a basic overview.

Additions/edit
* With an active ESS in system, bounties pay out LP in addition to normal ISK reward. LP reward starts at 0.15 LP per 1000 ISK and can increase to 0.2 LP per 1000 ISK as the bonus payout increases. As an example, a bounty worth 1 million ISK (total) gives between 150 and 200 LPs, based on payout level. This is to address the risk vs. reward concerns. Thanks to those that suggested using LPs instead of ISK for balance.
* There is now no timer to open the ESS window where the player gets to choose to Share or Take all, but both options now have separate timers on them. Share has 20 seconds, Take all has 180 seconds. Moving out of range while the timer is ongoing resets the timer. This is to reduce the feasibility of having an alt sit at the ESS and quickly empty the pool when someone shows up.
* Interacting with the ESS now puts a warp disruption effect on the ship interacting with it. Ships immune to bubbles are not immune to this effect. This is to reduce the feasibility of using ships immune to bubbles for stealing purposes.

Also, some of the stats have changed:
* Price lowered from 30 million to 25 million
* Hit points increased from 150k to 250k
* Volume increased from 150 to 200
* Increased minimum range from stargates/stations to 3000 km, from 300.
* Activation time increased to 120 seconds, up from 60 seconds

Some of these changes are already out on Sisi, the rest should be there soon. Thank you all for your feedback.

That sounds really good :)


It's better, even a lot better. I see no mention of any 5% nerf.

SoniClover also said in the other thread that the LP will come from the Faction Navies, ie deploy a Minmatar ESS, get Republic Fleet LP, deploy a Caldari ESS, get Caldari Navy LP etc.

Hell, I can maybe see this thing being an ok deal for group ratting this way.

The core problem remains: There are other combat PVE options, so much so that lighting a "come pvp me in my ratting grounds" beacon still might not make much sense. Notice that people don't intentionally go suspect while missioning in empire and you get the picture.

What CCP should do IMO is a comprehensive game wide review of combat pve risk/effort/reward, because the balance is WAY off.

i myself made half a bil in a few hours of Sisters of EVE missioning in high sec last night. There is no way 'pirate' faction loot should cost the same in empire as it does in null (which is why the ships cost more LP in high than null), therefore all the virtue and nomad implants and probes and such you can get from the SOE and Thukker high sec agents should cost more LP, with the lower LP option being in null sec (again, just like the ships).

EDIT: incoming pissed off high sec mission runners who are about to watch their faction navy LP take a nose dive in value.

I just thought, this also affects lvl 5 mission runners too, those are navy agents.
Mah Boobz
Doomheim
#724 - 2014-01-21 14:04:32 UTC
From dumb to dumber.
Thanks for devaluing all 4 empire navy's LP.
It's not like the people that grinded standings and missions for LP should be rewarded, naa screw that, make it so EVERY RAT IN NULL gives out navy LP!!

Edit: running numbers, that's about 15k LP per hour @ BASE, more when it upgrades. (based on 30mil ticks)
(based on 1000 isk per lp ratio, that's 15 mil extra per hour, or 16.6% of your ratting income) mileage may very.
Tell me about how you want to avoid inflation again?

MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#725 - 2014-01-21 14:09:57 UTC
Those changes are actually much better.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#726 - 2014-01-21 14:10:48 UTC
Joan Greywind wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:


No I'm calling you illiterate because I wasn't talking about the ESS when you engaged me, I was making a comment on the inability to secure any space no matter how much effort is due to the current meta fast align kiting interceptors have added, I have clearly and overtly stated this directly at least once, yet you still bring the ESS up as if it was winning you the argument. But please talk about he counters to the ESS again because the next time it will totally be what I was talking about when you first quoted me and started this idiot discussion.


Oh I am sorry, it is totally idiotic of me to assume that you whinning about ceptors in a thread specifically about the ESS module, meant you are whinning about them in relation to each other. It is totally my bad and should've immediately known you were just whinning about ceptors in general.

Is that "nested" enough for you??

Still don't know what that means btw.


"nested quotes" ... ^^^^^ ... that portion of someone else's quote that appears in our own posts... their quote is quoted [nested] in the post :D

Thank me later :D
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#727 - 2014-01-21 14:11:22 UTC
Mah Boobz wrote:
From dumb to dumber.
Thanks for devaluing all 4 empire navy's LP.
It's not like the people that grinded standings and missions for LP should be rewarded, naa screw that, make it so EVERY RAT IN NULL gives out navy LP!!

Edit: running numbers, that's about 15k LP per hour @ BASE, more when it upgrades. (based on 30mil ticks)
(based on 1000 isk per lp ratio, that's 15 mil extra per hour, or 16.6% of your ratting income) mileage may very.
Tell me about how you want to avoid inflation again?



LP is an isk sink, giving null sec ratters LP is actually a VERy good thing for the game overall, because now a good portion of that 600 to 700 bil per day sov null generates will be sunk into LP.

It does seem to suck for high sec navy mission runners however. it may even affect lvl 5 missions.
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#728 - 2014-01-21 14:13:32 UTC
Mah Boobz wrote:
From dumb to dumber.
Thanks for devaluing all 4 empire navy's LP.
It's not like the people that grinded standings and missions for LP should be rewarded, naa screw that, make it so EVERY RAT IN NULL gives out navy LP!!

Edit: running numbers, that's about 15k LP per hour @ BASE, more when it upgrades. (based on 30mil ticks)
(based on 1000 isk per lp ratio, that's 15 mil extra per hour, or 16.6% of your ratting income) mileage may very.
Tell me about how you want to avoid inflation again?


LP stores are an isk sink. How does it worsen inflation, when there's no money coming into the game via LP?

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Fr3akwave
Mercury Arms Inc.
#729 - 2014-01-21 14:15:57 UTC
Mah Boobz wrote:
From dumb to dumber.
Thanks for devaluing all 4 empire navy's LP.
It's not like the people that grinded standings and missions for LP should be rewarded, naa screw that, make it so EVERY RAT IN NULL gives out navy LP!!

Edit: running numbers, that's about 15k LP per hour @ BASE, more when it upgrades. (based on 30mil ticks)
(based on 1000 isk per lp ratio, that's 15 mil extra per hour, or 16.6% of your ratting income) mileage may very.
Tell me about how you want to avoid inflation again?



I dont know if you know how many LPs FW mission runners make, but my guess is that the inflation inflicted by this small amount will most likely not noticeable at all.
Mah Boobz
Doomheim
#730 - 2014-01-21 14:20:33 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Mah Boobz wrote:
From dumb to dumber.
Thanks for devaluing all 4 empire navy's LP.
It's not like the people that grinded standings and missions for LP should be rewarded, naa screw that, make it so EVERY RAT IN NULL gives out navy LP!!

Edit: running numbers, that's about 15k LP per hour @ BASE, more when it upgrades. (based on 30mil ticks)
(based on 1000 isk per lp ratio, that's 15 mil extra per hour, or 16.6% of your ratting income) mileage may very.
Tell me about how you want to avoid inflation again?


LP stores are an isk sink. How does it worsen inflation, when there's no money coming into the game via LP?



Really? your that dumb?
Because there's NO item in the LP store that ONLY costs LP right?
Notorious Fellon
#731 - 2014-01-21 14:21:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Notorious Fellon
To gain said LP, those in null would actually need to stay in null and run belts/anoms/sigs/etc. I like this change.


I see nothing wrong with these units giving out LP. These look better, but I am unsure if we will see widespread use. I hope we do.

Note: if you have substantial inventories in LP purchased items (implants, ammo, etc) I suggest you unload immediately.

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#732 - 2014-01-21 14:22:57 UTC
This is a great improvement, thanks for getting it pushed out so quickly.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Mah Boobz
Doomheim
#733 - 2014-01-21 14:23:45 UTC
Notorious Fellon wrote:
To gain said LP, those in null would actually need to stay in null and run belts/anoms/sigs/etc. I like this change.


I see nothing wrong with these units giving out LP. These look better, but I am unsure if we will see widespread use. I hope we do.


Because people in null don't rat/anom/sig in null now right?Roll
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
#734 - 2014-01-21 14:24:52 UTC
I approve. now get rid of the ridiculous overheating balance.
Mah Boobz
Doomheim
#735 - 2014-01-21 14:27:46 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
This is a great improvement, thanks for getting it pushed out so quickly.


And the award for biggest brownnose goes to.....
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#736 - 2014-01-21 14:29:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelica Dreamstar
Mah Boobz wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Mah Boobz wrote:
From dumb to dumber.
Thanks for devaluing all 4 empire navy's LP.
It's not like the people that grinded standings and missions for LP should be rewarded, naa screw that, make it so EVERY RAT IN NULL gives out navy LP!!

Edit: running numbers, that's about 15k LP per hour @ BASE, more when it upgrades. (based on 30mil ticks)
(based on 1000 isk per lp ratio, that's 15 mil extra per hour, or 16.6% of your ratting income) mileage may very.
Tell me about how you want to avoid inflation again?


LP stores are an isk sink. How does it worsen inflation, when there's no money coming into the game via LP?



Really? your that dumb?
Because there's NO item in the LP store that ONLY costs LP right?

Yeah I must be dumb, because a sink is where you put money in and none comes out.

You put money into the LP store and it turns into a module.

So... when does the LP store generate ISK out of thin air? :)

You are obviously much smarter than everybody else, so explain it to us. :)



Edith reminds you, btw: you're* :)

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Notorious Fellon
#737 - 2014-01-21 14:30:12 UTC
Mah Boobz wrote:
Notorious Fellon wrote:
To gain said LP, those in null would actually need to stay in null and run belts/anoms/sigs/etc. I like this change.


I see nothing wrong with these units giving out LP. These look better, but I am unsure if we will see widespread use. I hope we do.


Because people in null don't rat/anom/sig in null now right?Roll


You need to calm down and drop the attitude. There are many in this very thread who claim that they do not. Some do, and some don't. This *may* draw those who do not back down into null which is obviously what CCP is trying to encourage.

At the very least, some will return until the LP market bottoms out.

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.
Mah Boobz
Doomheim
#738 - 2014-01-21 14:32:01 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Mah Boobz wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Mah Boobz wrote:
From dumb to dumber.
Thanks for devaluing all 4 empire navy's LP.
It's not like the people that grinded standings and missions for LP should be rewarded, naa screw that, make it so EVERY RAT IN NULL gives out navy LP!!

Edit: running numbers, that's about 15k LP per hour @ BASE, more when it upgrades. (based on 30mil ticks)
(based on 1000 isk per lp ratio, that's 15 mil extra per hour, or 16.6% of your ratting income) mileage may very.
Tell me about how you want to avoid inflation again?


LP stores are an isk sink. How does it worsen inflation, when there's no money coming into the game via LP?



Really? your that dumb?
Because there's NO item in the LP store that ONLY costs LP right?

Yeah I must be dumb, because a sink is where you put money in and none comes out.

You put money into the LP store and it turns into a module.

So... when does the LP store generate ISK out of thin air? :)

You are obviously much smarter than everybody else, so explain it to us. :)



Edith reminds you, btw: you're* :)


When you buy stuff with LP, that doesn't require isk (skill books, starbase charters)
Mah Boobz
Doomheim
#739 - 2014-01-21 14:33:30 UTC
Notorious Fellon wrote:
Mah Boobz wrote:
Notorious Fellon wrote:
To gain said LP, those in null would actually need to stay in null and run belts/anoms/sigs/etc. I like this change.


I see nothing wrong with these units giving out LP. These look better, but I am unsure if we will see widespread use. I hope we do.


Because people in null don't rat/anom/sig in null now right?Roll


You need to calm down and drop the attitude. There are many in this very thread who claim that they do not. Some do, and some don't. This *may* draw those who do not back down into null which is obviously what CCP is trying to encourage.

At the very least, some will return until the LP market bottoms out.


Oh please, tell me more of what I need to do..Roll
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#740 - 2014-01-21 14:35:52 UTC
Mah Boobz wrote:


When you buy stuff with LP, that doesn't require isk (skill books, starbase charters)


Those items are (to the game) "isk neutral". They don't sink or create isk. They do serve to sread isk out by adding more items to the game.

Don't embarrass yourself further.