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Dev blog: More Deployables from Super Friends

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Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1721 - 2014-01-20 23:17:33 UTC
Zircon Dasher wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:

I'll just do it to neut/reds. Setting aside that none of my blues are going to use the thing, I wouldn't do it to blues because I would get kicked from GSF, and this game isn't worth playing if I'm not with my fellow Goons.


That was my point. If someone is going to awox, then they will awox. Doesn't much matter if its a 30mil deployable or a 30mil ship. Awoxing is always something that has to be dealt with, there are ways of dealing with it, and everyone accepts this.
You can't consistently object to the module on the grounds of "but a blue can steal mah iskies" without also objecting to all new items because "but a blue can shoot mah 30mil [insert item]"



Sure I can complain about it. If it is deployed the way CCP intends, it is another way awoxers can screw with a corp more then they already can. It is one thing for awoxers to shoot ships and structures, and cyno in hostiles, but now they can loot or destroy bounties.

And even aside from awoxing, the thing is a drama generator, which is the biggest reason we are not going to allow the use of them in our space.
Muffet McStrudel
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1722 - 2014-01-20 23:37:11 UTC
Zircon Dasher wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Give it up Gizznitt Malikite.

The major nullsec alliances have already said that the ESS in its current form will be Shoot On Sight.

The ESS is dead on arrival, and won't see any real use after the first month of people trying to use it as a griefing tool.


Are you going to kick corps who put them up?Smile

EDIT: nm he answered that in a later post


Corps, probably not. Individuals and their alts? Yup. Bank on that 100%.
Wyn Pharoh
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1723 - 2014-01-21 03:39:38 UTC
Muffet McStrudel wrote:
Zircon Dasher wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Give it up Gizznitt Malikite.

The major nullsec alliances have already said that the ESS in its current form will be Shoot On Sight.

The ESS is dead on arrival, and won't see any real use after the first month of people trying to use it as a griefing tool.


Are you going to kick corps who put them up?Smile

EDIT: nm he answered that in a later post


Corps, probably not. Individuals and their alts? Yup. Bank on that 100%.


Actually, it sounds like entire corps would be kicked for repeatedly dropping these in GSF space, and it would likely influence the same policy be held throughout the CFC. IDK what they will tell their renters though :) N3 & PL have yet to make any formal policy statements for either their sov space or for the space held by their renters AFAIK.

It's a testament to the reward being so far below the potential risk that potentially tens of thousands of players will be following Alliance level decisions that deem the 'upgrade' to be unsatisfactory. Even if it means taking a 5% bullet to the wallet for their Rank and File members. If its not good enough for the plebs to even consider a rebellion over, then its probably just not good enough to go into the game in its current Incarna.
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1724 - 2014-01-21 05:36:08 UTC
Wyn Pharoh wrote:

Actually, it sounds like entire corps would be kicked for repeatedly dropping these in GSF space, and it would likely influence the same policy be held throughout the CFC. IDK what they will tell their renters though :) N3 & PL have yet to make any formal policy statements for either their sov space or for the space held by their renters AFAIK.

It's a testament to the reward being so far below the potential risk that potentially tens of thousands of players will be following Alliance level decisions that deem the 'upgrade' to be unsatisfactory. Even if it means taking a 5% bullet to the wallet for their Rank and File members. If its not good enough for the plebs to even consider a rebellion over, then its probably just not good enough to go into the game in its current Incarna.


Corps can probably get kicked over this the same way they can get "reset" over awoxers or other trouble makers that they themselves do not purge in a timely manner.

Renters can do what ever they want in their space. They are paying for it after all. Chances are, few of them will use it because it will attract trouble makers, and be too hard to build up to full bonus in systems with bad true-sec and few ratters.

Not sure about N3, but PL won't use them because PL doesn't take low SP players that would consider the ESS bonus or ratting in general to be worth their time. They would probably allow their renters to use them, same as we would allow ours, but that crappy drone region space already seems to be farmed more for mining than for the rats.


The "plebes" aren't stupid. And I don't mean that rebelling over this is stupid. I mean that they can read the dev blog and come to the conclusion themselves that this thing is more of a pain than it is worth. For the most part, it just seems like a lame attempt at CCP covering their back-side over a nerf to anom ratting by trying to say that we could jump through ridiculous hoops to undo the nerf.

And line members are already asking around about us guys that make isk outside of nullsec ratting. You can bet that the higher SP players that make enough to notice that 5% are going to be heading to wormholes, FW and highsec Incursion farming.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1725 - 2014-01-21 06:24:36 UTC
Has this terrible idea been canned yet?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Fix Sov
#1726 - 2014-01-21 07:50:54 UTC
Nope.

The current sov system is too heavily reliant on the defender saving systems by stuffing as many people as possible into the system for the final timer, instead of incentivizing attacking (and defending) multiple systems at the same time by splitting their forces into multiple fleets and using actual intelligence/strategy. This must change.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1727 - 2014-01-21 07:51:24 UTC
How about now?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Fix Sov
#1728 - 2014-01-21 07:51:51 UTC
No.

The current sov system is too heavily reliant on the defender saving systems by stuffing as many people as possible into the system for the final timer, instead of incentivizing attacking (and defending) multiple systems at the same time by splitting their forces into multiple fleets and using actual intelligence/strategy. This must change.
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#1729 - 2014-01-21 08:59:15 UTC
A new day, another non-work by SoniClover.
I don't really know why I expected better ...

But I did. Silly me.
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
Ushra'Khan
#1730 - 2014-01-21 10:10:43 UTC
the only way this ever gets deployed is by switching around the % of the income nerf:
(all those things have been proposed more or less multile times)

1) without ESS only 80% of the income is payed out. (flame away for me saying it loud ^^)
2) with freshly deployed ESS 95% of the income is payed out. the other 5% go into the honey pot. -> now this would actually give an incentive to deploy this dead baby.
3) after ratting for a while the 5% which go into the pot increase to what ever number seems reasonable.

-> if you want to steal the honey pot you need to hack this damn thing. just pushing a button seems rather unimmersive, maybe introduce a special hacker with a spool-up time to lengthen the hacking process to a reasonable time span, giving the defenders some time to react. when the hacker is attacked, the hacking process should be interrupted. so when the defenders show up, the raiders need to repell them, then get the loot. .

this way you can keep a roaming interceptor gang from stealing your stuff with a dedicated smartbomb bs or whatever and ensuring, that not only the defenders need to fight to safe their assets but also the attacker need to muster some force to take the loot. as it is proposed right now, it's just stealing candy from a baby.


and in case of me repeating myself: for the love of all things good make 0.0 PVE content which actually entices me to do it in a small group and still pays out like the ratting right now. there doesn't need to be more money to be made, just let everyone get what hes getting right now, while doing it together.
Mah Boobz
Doomheim
#1731 - 2014-01-21 10:43:50 UTC
Almost 30 pages without a Dev response, tell us again about how our feedback is important.Roll
Tahnil
Gunboat Commando
#1732 - 2014-01-21 10:47:36 UTC
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:
the only way this ever gets deployed is by switching around the % of the income nerf:
(all those things have been proposed more or less multile times)

1) without ESS only 80% of the income is payed out. (flame away for me saying it loud ^^)
2) with freshly deployed ESS 95% of the income is payed out. the other 5% go into the honey pot. -> now this would actually give an incentive to deploy this dead baby.
3) after ratting for a while the 5% which go into the pot increase to what ever number seems reasonable.

-> if you want to steal the honey pot you need to hack this damn thing. just pushing a button seems rather unimmersive, maybe introduce a special hacker with a spool-up time to lengthen the hacking process to a reasonable time span, giving the defenders some time to react. when the hacker is attacked, the hacking process should be interrupted. so when the defenders show up, the raiders need to repell them, then get the loot. .

this way you can keep a roaming interceptor gang from stealing your stuff with a dedicated smartbomb bs or whatever and ensuring, that not only the defenders need to fight to safe their assets but also the attacker need to muster some force to take the loot. as it is proposed right now, it's just stealing candy from a baby.


and in case of me repeating myself: for the love of all things good make 0.0 PVE content which actually entices me to do it in a small group and still pays out like the ratting right now. there doesn't need to be more money to be made, just let everyone get what hes getting right now, while doing it together.


This is very constructive feedback. I really appreciate this. Sorry, I‘m no CCP dev though :-D
Falkor1984
The Love Dragons
#1733 - 2014-01-21 10:51:13 UTC
For those that missed it: http://eveion.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/icelandic-police-raid-ccps-headquarters.html

I lolled so hard.

CCP, maybe just maybe you should reconsider this if a significant part of the player population is adament that this is not a good idea. The ESS (Extra Stupid Structure) is a bad idea, get your heads around it.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#1734 - 2014-01-21 11:11:16 UTC
You want to make people use these in Sov Null?

Require them for the Military Index to go up.

Still, I'd suggest a higher bonus on it, with the risk involved.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1735 - 2014-01-21 13:25:08 UTC
Here's a quick update on the changes we've made to the ESS, based on testing and feedback. There is a dev blog coming out tomorrow detailing these (and other changes) to the deployables in 1.1, but here's a basic overview.

Additions/edit
* With an active ESS in system, bounties pay out LP in addition to normal ISK reward. LP reward starts at 0.15 LP per 1000 ISK and can increase to 0.2 LP per 1000 ISK as the bonus payout increases. As an example, a bounty worth 1 million ISK (total) gives between 150 and 200 LPs, based on payout level. This is to address the risk vs. reward concerns. Thanks to those that suggested using LPs instead of ISK for balance.
* There is now no timer to open the ESS window where the player gets to choose to Share or Take all, but both options now have separate timers on them. Share has 20 seconds, Take all has 180 seconds. Moving out of range while the timer is ongoing resets the timer. This is to reduce the feasibility of having an alt sit at the ESS and quickly empty the pool when someone shows up.
* Interacting with the ESS now puts a warp disruption effect on the ship interacting with it. Ships immune to bubbles are not immune to this effect. This is to reduce the feasibility of using ships immune to bubbles for stealing purposes.

Also, some of the stats have changed:
* Price lowered from 30 million to 25 million
* Hit points increased from 150k to 250k
* Volume increased from 150 to 200
* Increased minimum range from stargates/stations to 3000 km, from 300.
* Activation time increased to 120 seconds, up from 60 seconds

Some of these changes are already out on Sisi, the rest should be there soon. Thank you all for your feedback.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1736 - 2014-01-21 13:33:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Here's a quick update on the changes we've made to the ESS, based on testing and feedback. There is a dev blog coming out tomorrow detailing these (and other changes) to the deployables in 1.1, but here's a basic overview.

Additions/edit
* With an active ESS in system, bounties pay out LP in addition to normal ISK reward. LP reward starts at 0.15 LP per 1000 ISK and can increase to 0.2 LP per 1000 ISK as the bonus payout increases. As an example, a bounty worth 1 million ISK (total) gives between 150 and 200 LPs, based on payout level. This is to address the risk vs. reward concerns. Thanks to those that suggested using LPs instead of ISK for balance.
* There is now no timer to open the ESS window where the player gets to choose to Share or Take all, but both options now have separate timers on them. Share has 20 seconds, Take all has 180 seconds. Moving out of range while the timer is ongoing resets the timer. This is to reduce the feasibility of having an alt sit at the ESS and quickly empty the pool when someone shows up.
* Interacting with the ESS now puts a warp disruption effect on the ship interacting with it. Ships immune to bubbles are not immune to this effect. This is to reduce the feasibility of using ships immune to bubbles for stealing purposes.

Also, some of the stats have changed:
* Price lowered from 30 million to 25 million
* Hit points increased from 150k to 250k
* Volume increased from 150 to 200
* Increased minimum range from stargates/stations to 3000 km, from 300.
* Activation time increased to 120 seconds, up from 60 seconds

Some of these changes are already out on Sisi, the rest should be there soon. Thank you all for your feedback.




An actual good start. The most obvious question is "LP from who"? CONCORD is the most obvious answer, if so prepare you self for HUGE cries of foul from the only other people who get CONCORD LP (Incursion Runners). You should fluff up the CONCORD LP store with some more stuff if you're gonna do this.

If not CONCORD, then who? And if CONCORD, will we be able to convert the LP like we can in incursions.\

Edit: Like I said, a good start. Still the basic idea is flawed. Lighting a "come to my system and pvp me" beacon in a ratting system (and there is no such thing as a "remote ratting system" in this time of jump drives, covert cynos and interceptors) for potential extra rewards (that you then have to devote time and effort into defending) is a bad idea when there are so many other ways to make isk out there.

In other words, you guys should be doing a comprehensive combat pve risk/reward/effort review instead of wasting your time on this piecemeal stuff. I made half a bil in a few hours last night doing Sister's missions and selling probes in high sec why would i screw around in null?
CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1737 - 2014-01-21 13:37:01 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


An actual good start. The most obvious question is "LP from who"? CONCORD is the most obvious answer, if so prepare you self for HUGE cries of foul from the only other people who get CONCORD LP (Incursion Runners). You should fluff up the CONCORD LP store with some more stuff if you're gonna do this.

If not CONCORD, then who?


Sorry for not mentioning this above. The LP is from the empire navies, so it's based on what ESS was deployed.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1738 - 2014-01-21 13:41:11 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


An actual good start. The most obvious question is "LP from who"? CONCORD is the most obvious answer, if so prepare you self for HUGE cries of foul from the only other people who get CONCORD LP (Incursion Runners). You should fluff up the CONCORD LP store with some more stuff if you're gonna do this.

If not CONCORD, then who?


Sorry for not mentioning this above. The LP is from the empire navies, so it's based on what ESS was deployed.


Now this is good. Hell, very good.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#1739 - 2014-01-21 13:46:46 UTC  |  Edited by: War Kitten
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Here's a quick update on the changes we've made to the ESS, based on testing and feedback. There is a dev blog coming out tomorrow detailing these (and other changes) to the deployables in 1.1, but here's a basic overview.

Additions/edit
* With an active ESS in system, bounties pay out LP in addition to normal ISK reward. LP reward starts at 0.15 LP per 1000 ISK and can increase to 0.2 LP per 1000 ISK as the bonus payout increases. As an example, a bounty worth 1 million ISK (total) gives between 150 and 200 LPs, based on payout level. This is to address the risk vs. reward concerns. Thanks to those that suggested using LPs instead of ISK for balance.
* There is now no timer to open the ESS window where the player gets to choose to Share or Take all, but both options now have separate timers on them. Share has 20 seconds, Take all has 180 seconds. Moving out of range while the timer is ongoing resets the timer. This is to reduce the feasibility of having an alt sit at the ESS and quickly empty the pool when someone shows up.
* Interacting with the ESS now puts a warp disruption effect on the ship interacting with it. Ships immune to bubbles are not immune to this effect. This is to reduce the feasibility of using ships immune to bubbles for stealing purposes.

Also, some of the stats have changed:
* Price lowered from 30 million to 25 million
* Hit points increased from 150k to 250k
* Volume increased from 150 to 200
* Increased minimum range from stargates/stations to 3000 km, from 300.
* Activation time increased to 120 seconds, up from 60 seconds

Some of these changes are already out on Sisi, the rest should be there soon. Thank you all for your feedback.




So accessing the ESS now points you. Is it like a dictor's infinipoint, or will warp core stabs help?
Will it prevent MWD or MJD?
If you move out of range of the ESS, do you become unpointed, or are you stuck there until the timer runs out?

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Mah Boobz
Doomheim
#1740 - 2014-01-21 13:52:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Mah Boobz
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Here's a quick update on the changes we've made to the ESS, based on testing and feedback. There is a dev blog coming out tomorrow detailing these (and other changes) to the deployables in 1.1, but here's a basic overview.

Additions/edit
* With an active ESS in system, bounties pay out LP in addition to normal ISK reward. LP reward starts at 0.15 LP per 1000 ISK and can increase to 0.2 LP per 1000 ISK as the bonus payout increases. As an example, a bounty worth 1 million ISK (total) gives between 150 and 200 LPs, based on payout level. This is to address the risk vs. reward concerns. Thanks to those that suggested using LPs instead of ISK for balance.
* There is now no timer to open the ESS window where the player gets to choose to Share or Take all, but both options now have separate timers on them. Share has 20 seconds, Take all has 180 seconds. Moving out of range while the timer is ongoing resets the timer. This is to reduce the feasibility of having an alt sit at the ESS and quickly empty the pool when someone shows up.
* Interacting with the ESS now puts a warp disruption effect on the ship interacting with it. Ships immune to bubbles are not immune to this effect. This is to reduce the feasibility of using ships immune to bubbles for stealing purposes.

Also, some of the stats have changed:
* Price lowered from 30 million to 25 million
* Hit points increased from 150k to 250k
* Volume increased from 150 to 200
* Increased minimum range from stargates/stations to 3000 km, from 300.
* Activation time increased to 120 seconds, up from 60 seconds

Some of these changes are already out on Sisi, the rest should be there soon. Thank you all for your feedback.




From dumb to dumber.
Thanks for devaluing all 4 empire navy's LP.
It's not like the people that grinded standings and missions for LP should be rewarded, naa screw that, make it so EVERY RAT IN NULL gives out navy LP!!

Edit: running numbers, that's about 15k LP per hour @ BASE, more when it upgrades. (based on 30mil ticks)
(based on 1000 isk per lp ratio, that's 15 mil extra per hour, or 16.6% of your ratting income) mileage may very.
Tell me about how you want to avoid inflation again?