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Missiles to Turrets for PVP

Author
Kayla Brandewyn
The Sacrifice.
For Better Crops Next Year
#1 - 2014-01-17 04:11:47 UTC
Hello again everyone,

I've did my research before, so I want to personally confirm this because there are still mixed reviews. I went for Missiles in the beginning because it sounds nice. However after time, I read that Guns are the way for PVP. I got my Missile skills at level 3 for most and Missile Launcher Op at 4.

Is there anyway I can PVP (relatively) effectively with Missiles? I've found a few posts that suggests that Rockets and Torp/Bombs are "can-do" for PVP. Can anyone give advises for this? I currently have an inclination to go for SB, and eventually train some Logi skills. Wise move or scrap this thought and go for Guns? Haha.

Appreciate your time!
Icarus Able
Refuse.Resist
#2 - 2014-01-17 04:46:14 UTC
At this point it doesnt sound like you are much into missiles so just put some training into your gunnery skills and use both.
Omega Sunset
Black.Omega
#3 - 2014-01-17 07:06:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Omega Sunset
You can pretty much squeeze more dps out of rockets over time compared to the hard blop of light missiles with their slower fire rates and heavier system demand. Like if you are ratting, or shooting at a glass cannon pvp build, you will lay out quick damage and at safer ranges. Rockets you need to get up closer, hit for less damage, but the rapid fire gives you better DPS over time along with more CPU/Cap left to fit extra weapons upgrades etc.

Now say blasters, same tactic as rockets, same close quarters drawback, but in that case it comes down to ship bonus and which can fit what high points and/or how many. Rails are better for more distance like missiles, and more instant hit satisfaction while having various bonuses to ammo loads (as do blasters), but also split damage type. Rockets and missiles deliver 100% damage type such as kinetic which also has a high bonus on many of the Caldari ships.

Generally, most pvp fits now among frigs and destroyers for Caldari are either rocket or blaster, or both. Light missiles fell into the re-balancing mess, less favored now. Light rails are kinda weak for Caldari now too. Also being up close helps with web and scramble where with light missiles you may be at range unable to.

Train them all? You can probably get by with just rockets and missiles, but it really depends on the ships you want to best skill for at least early on. Some of those have room for hybrid and missiles. It's just gunnery + missile is a long road of SP's, at least early on. The weapon systems are quick enough to train into specialization, quite fast with light weapons, it's just all the supporting skills take time which might be better spent into other areas early on. Hope that made some sense, lagging a bit.

—Ω—

Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2014-01-17 07:18:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
When it comes to missles I prefer the Heavy Assualt Missles. So it is no surprise that the HAM Legion is my fav ship.

Due to the nature of what I do I find having that ability to switch damage type quickly with changing situations priceless. Blasters and lazors are great DPS dealers until you run into somebody that is tanked for your damage type. At that point you will miss the ability of switching damage types.

There are turrets systems that allowes you the same ability but that means flying rust buckets (Minmatarr) which I hate.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk

Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#5 - 2014-01-17 07:20:18 UTC
Turrets and missiles are both viable. You'll be starting in T1 frigates anyway so if you are going for missiles then aim for Kestrel for rocket brawling (something like this) or Condor for kiting (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4000814).

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Omega Sunset
Black.Omega
#6 - 2014-01-17 07:28:35 UTC
Well, when in doubt, perma-jam them I always says. In that case it really doesn't matter so much what their resistance is or what you are hitting them with.

—Ω—

Kayla Brandewyn
The Sacrifice.
For Better Crops Next Year
#7 - 2014-01-17 08:30:03 UTC
As always, thanks everyone for your helpful answers, especially Kane and Omega with helping me with queries.

So it looks like I'll probably have to scrap the SB idea and train up for close range Rockets fit for now :)
Arc'Los Xyn
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2014-01-17 16:19:48 UTC
Kayla Brandewyn wrote:
As always, thanks everyone for your helpful answers, especially Kane and Omega with helping me with queries.

So it looks like I'll probably have to scrap the SB idea and train up for close range Rockets fit for now :)


i see no reason to scap the SB idea.. if you're training your rockets and missiles.. it will still lead to the bomb launcher training eventually yes ? or am I wrong in this?

also as a side note.. i had a BLAST using a rocket fitted talwar against Dagan when I fought him away back nearly 2 months ago.. i had a DPS of 144 on that talwar.. and I didn't even have a ballistic control module to gel boost my rocket power.. hehe

http://ahanddrawnlife.tumblr.com my artwork ! The Journey : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=315016&find=unread

Omega Sunset
Black.Omega
#9 - 2014-01-17 21:30:46 UTC
Oh yeah, SB as in stealth bomber, lagging a little less today. By training rockets, you only spend some 4 days on the skill which is nothing. Torps for the SB is on the missile skill tree as well. So no reason not to train SB, other than they are not a primary ship for most situations and best to focus on another ship first for training.

—Ω—

Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#10 - 2014-01-18 00:33:39 UTC
As mentioned elsewhere, HAMs are nice for PvP. Most PvP is "in your face", and most PvP is over very, very quickly. If you have a launcher that takes forever between cycles there's a good chance you'll be dead before you can get off the next salvo. It doesn't matter if you have 2500 damage alpha, if you're dead by then the damage will be zero. If you have a shorter cycle time you can apply constant dps to the enemy. And watching his shield/armor melt away quickly is the surest way to make the enemy hesitate and decide to disengage besides having 30 of your friends show up on dscan.

So HAMs are good because they fire every few seconds. Rockets as well. Many people complain about the lack of range, but PvP is mostly done within scram range (9-10km) anyway. You don't need range. So if your missile support skills are trained, then fly HAM boats until your gunnery is trained. There's nothing wrong with that.
Kayla Brandewyn
The Sacrifice.
For Better Crops Next Year
#11 - 2014-01-18 02:38:55 UTC
I wanted to train for SB simply because of curiosity and interest. I read up and well, concluded it's only good in fleets. Flying solo is really tough it seems. Thinking of flying one for exploring low sec areas due to cloaking advantages.

I'll start to train for rockets then! Makes sense that I'll be dead before my next volley of light missiles. Haha. I've been invited for a roam this weekend so wish me the best of luck!

Have a good weekend people!
Omega Sunset
Black.Omega
#12 - 2014-01-18 04:30:41 UTC
Kayla Brandewyn wrote:
Thinking of flying one for exploring low sec areas due to cloaking advantages.

Buzzard? They have more uses than just for explorer mini-games. They will do light combat, rockets or light missiles x2. I sometimes stick ECM jammers into them. They make for very nice couriers + cargo rigs. King of the ship-probing scout, imo. Then of course can fit covert cynosural field generators. Quite useful, my fav frig.

—Ω—

Kayla Brandewyn
The Sacrifice.
For Better Crops Next Year
#13 - 2014-01-18 05:01:53 UTC
Omega Sunset wrote:

Buzzard? They have more uses than just for explorer mini-games. They will do light combat, rockets or light missiles x2. I sometimes stick ECM jammers into them. They make for very nice couriers + cargo rigs. King of the ship-probing scout, imo. Then of course can fit covert cynosural field generators. Quite useful, my fav frig.


Yes thinking of that or Manticore. But the latter I assume it's more of a combat ship? Buzzard yes, seems it's a good cov-op ship. I'll take note of your suggested fits. I'm hoping to do some probing for sites too, however, will it be too lightly equipped to clear the sites?
Omega Sunset
Black.Omega
#14 - 2014-01-18 05:36:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Omega Sunset
Kayla Brandewyn wrote:


Yes thinking of that or Manticore. But the latter I assume it's more of a combat ship? Buzzard yes, seems it's a good cov-op ship. I'll take note of your suggested fits. I'm hoping to do some probing for sites too, however, will it be too lightly equipped to clear the sites?
You mean DED sites? I've taken it in on low level ones long long ago before I got a tengu. You mean you were thinking of doing DED sites with a stealth bomber in low sec? err I'd say shoot for falcon if you want to do stealthy combat like that, or cov-op configured strategic cruiser if you must stealth. I don't think... er do people do low sec DED sites with an SB? Seems like it would get slaughtered in them. SB, probably the most action they see against rats are FW missions. But going to low sec to find harder DED sites I don't think would work for most of the frigs in the game to then fight in them. Maybe the Assault Frig, but nothing too high with DED sites. Buzzards main talent is hunting targets, npc and players, then adding light combat if applicable especially if attached to a gang.

I say AF because it's the odd ball frigate, it's more a cruiser class really, but jacked up on frigate skills. So anything you can do with a cruiser you can probably do with an AF. But for DED sites, most cruisers will do it better, and a BC will outclass them all imo (e.g navy drake)

—Ω—

Genuflect Millikin
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2014-01-18 06:20:07 UTC
Missles are a viable pvp weapon. Fly a Condor, fit with faction scourge missiles and kite. It takes some manual piloting skill but quite doable.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#16 - 2014-01-18 08:07:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Ptraci
Kayla Brandewyn wrote:
I wanted to train for SB simply because of curiosity and interest. I read up and well, concluded it's only good in fleets. Flying solo is really tough it seems. Thinking of flying one for exploring low sec areas due to cloaking advantages.

I'll start to train for rockets then! Makes sense that I'll be dead before my next volley of light missiles. Haha. I've been invited for a roam this weekend so wish me the best of luck!

Have a good weekend people!


SB's are fun but they have two problems. 1. They use torps which means horrible damage on targets with small sig radius (like frigates) - target paint target paint target paint! 2. They are great for surprise PvP but are paper thin. If you can't kite you will be killed quickly. If your enemy can track you and hit you at kiting range (example, AHACs) you're dead. If your enemy is faster than you (and you can't cloak when locked remember) you're dead. You need to select your targets very carefully in a bomber.
Kayla Brandewyn
The Sacrifice.
For Better Crops Next Year
#17 - 2014-01-18 12:22:29 UTC
Omega Sunset wrote:

You mean DED sites? I've taken it in on low level ones long long ago before I got a tengu. You mean you were thinking of doing DED sites with a stealth bomber in low sec? err I'd say shoot for falcon if you want to do stealthy combat like that, or cov-op configured strategic cruiser if you must stealth. I don't think... er do people do low sec DED sites with an SB? Seems like it would get slaughtered in them. SB, probably the most action they see against rats are FW missions. But going to low sec to find harder DED sites I don't think would work for most of the frigs in the game to then fight in them. Maybe the Assault Frig, but nothing too high with DED sites. Buzzards main talent is hunting targets, npc and players, then adding light combat if applicable especially if attached to a gang.


Yes. DED sites are those that I need to scan with probes and find them right? At the moment those seem fun to me, exception of when I found a WH and entered. Freaked me out. No local, no docks and quiet like nothing I've heard.

Hmmmm.. So I guess SB are really out of favour. Saw that it's usage has declined sharply the past few months. I shall go ahead and train up for a Falcon or cov-op Strategic Cruisers then!
Kayla Brandewyn
The Sacrifice.
For Better Crops Next Year
#18 - 2014-01-18 12:25:27 UTC
Ptraci wrote:

SB's are fun but they have two problems. 1. They use torps which means horrible damage on targets with small sig radius (like frigates) - target paint target paint target paint! 2. They are great for surprise PvP but are paper thin. If you can't kite you will be killed quickly. If your enemy can track you and hit you at kiting range (example, AHACs) you're dead. If your enemy is faster than you (and you can't cloak when locked remember) you're dead. You need to select your targets very carefully in a bomber.


Ouch. Glass cannon like they all say. Guess it isn't as cool as I used to look at it now. Well, I can fly them for fun on quiet nights to bomb some low level rats then. Other than that I shall not fly around with an SB. Haha!
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#19 - 2014-01-18 14:25:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Ptraci
Kayla Brandewyn wrote:

Ouch. Glass cannon like they all say. Guess it isn't as cool as I used to look at it now. Well, I can fly them for fun on quiet nights to bomb some low level rats then. Other than that I shall not fly around with an SB. Haha!


I didn't mean to put you off - SB's are quite fun. But unless you're a real pro, they're tough to PvP in and win. Yes there are videos on youtube about amazing things done by bombers. I can show you many more bombers that were 1 or 2 shotted :) The important thing is to have fun though. Bombers are great for sneaking around nullsec and avoiding gate camps (even when they're bubbled if you know what you're doing). They have awesome DPS for their size which makes them a favorite for - structure bashing, of all things! Bombs are fun to use but tricky to master. Don't discard bombers because of my say so - play with them by all means. But they're not so easy to fly WELL.

The only way to get experience is to fly them often :)
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#20 - 2014-01-18 20:01:25 UTC
Check out the Bombers Bar. But start in T1 frigates first. PvP is hard and you will lose an awful lot at the start.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

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