EVE General Discussion

Quality highsec posting. Highsec people should be excluded from this discussion unless the ESS is going to involve highsec.

That word that is bolded should be lovingly.

Also, if you desire to have highsec people excluded from discussions, don't start threads in General Discussion.

As I've said earlier, this new deplorable gives players a new way to interfere with other player’s income, and that's certainly a good thing. But trolls aside, I think most sensible people agree the implementation is pretty bad. But one of the things I've noticed repeatedly is the talk of how these changes affect the income of the null sec working class. And the null plebs accessible and subpar income streams stacked against the risks involved in acquiring it seems to be the real problem here. Perhaps we aren’t looking at this the right way.

In a previous thread on the richest person in eve, mynnna, whose bio styles him as a member of the goons economic warfare cabal stated that he has somewhere in the area of 3.3 trillion isk From this thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=306537

Surely that didn't all come from running lvl 4's, or doing incursions or ratting in null. I'll bet that 3.3 tril was possible due to mynnna's position in the upper echelon of a major null sec power bloc, and was accumulated with the support of the alliance infrastructure and participation in the meta game. Instead of crying to ccp to increase the null sec plebs income, perhaps they should ask mynnna, and the other ultra rich players at the top of the null blocs for a bigger slice of the pie?

Or you could just shut the **** up and accept that to get the big isk in null, just as anywhere else, requires skill, intelligence and a **** load of meta gaming. That's the risk v reward right there. Don't like it? Then don't play the null game, or just stay for the pew. Or go and do missions and incursions in high sec at the top end, but expect to put in some effort there as well. Just like irl, play the null game and risk to make it big, or don't and get bugger all at best. Either way, if you pve for isk, you're just a working class pleb working at eve mcdonalds. The problem isn't ****** scrub income in high or null at all. The problem is whiny proles are just lazy and want god or the government to make their life easier. So instead of whining to ccp for more isk, whine to your overlords and spare the rest of us. It's not broken because it's tough on the plebs. Null is the arse end of the game, hell, bounties should be **** in null, the big isk comes from being at the top siphoning off the lions share of the value of the 'teamwork" needed to secure the really rare valuable stuff, just like irl.

Irl the rich use creative ways of siphoning the value of the proles labour into their own pockets, eve is no different. Love him or loathe him, marx had a point, the working class gets exploited. And that brings me to another point, our wallets and station assets are too safe. Not sure what can be done about that. But it’d be nice to be able to pinch someone’s ship out of their hanger, or swipe a portion of their wallet without them being coerced into giving it to me. But that would probably get real messy.

In summation, perhaps if players want to build and maintain their own little empires in null, the game mechanics should be modified so as to force them to pony up some more of their own isk to the plebs if they want to be the big man (or woman) in eve. Edit: this would also help get some of that isk back into circulation.

Normal drivel.............

I love this sig it catches so many people :smug:. I didn't start the thread but I would support a feature that let me prevent groups of people from posting in threads when you make them, npc alt: can't post in this thread, lives in highsec: can't post in this thread, etc.

step 1:
create procedurally generated fleet based PVE content that takes notes from actual PVP meta, and don't just guess, interview lots of the celebrity status small gang FC's.
things they should have in common with incursions- split ISK payouts, different sites for different fleet sizes, cyno jammed, random locations, 2-3 spawn at a time in the same system, more ISK for bigger sites
things they should not have in common- system beacons are a no, constellation clumped, showing up on the map

step 2:
implement OPTIONAL ESS, set it to take ALL the ISK for a fleet, with 125% payout after
tags are stupid forget tags
options are good, take all or dish out (to fleet)
cashout timer set to 5mins
ship that cashes out is disabled (akin to lighting cyno)
for the ESS to be applicable to the fleet it must be on grid, as in, in the site the fleet is currently running

step 3:
offer me a job

what we have now is ISK making fleet activities for many sizes and shapes (can limit ship types for sites with activation gates)
-PVP fit small fleets now roam alliance space chilling out and making ISK together, ESS enhances this BUT...
-if used it allows rival PVP gangs to come in and FIGHT for the RIGHT to STEAL your ISK (hence the ESS disabling ship + keeping total ISK until payout), there is the risk for reward
-roaming fleets are now varied because to use your space effectively more than one ship type or fleet composition will be needed
-sites that you are not interested allow ninja fleets to roam your space and clear it up

Post #422



I am a high sec carebear.

I am still posting in this thread.

My input, while not valued by you, is not without value.



I submit you sir, as exhibit A.

CCP must have different numbers than yourself.

I'm betting the per capita income difference between the average null pleb and the average high sec pleb leaves the null pleb in front. The higher bounty generation in empire would be due to the much higher population turning over a lot more lower value rats. Just a guess on that, haven't seen numbers.

There is a finite number of systems that allow more than 1 person to rat effectively at a time.

Hilariously in my system, the ports spawn with 4x 1.2m bounty rats in military 1, and in military 2 (which is an entirely reliable event), and then at military 3 it changes over to almost always spawning the alternate spawn that has only 2 500k BS in the last spawn and has 2 waves of multiple elite frigates out of 4 waves total, AND is harder to tank. So in military 2, I get the necessary 2 ports to for 1 person to run 60m/hr, but in military 3, I don't, I have to run the 45m/hr forlorn rally point and I think the forlorn den is the best to go with it, because of how badly the ports go sour. (I brought a hyperion out here specifically to void the ports, but an hour of voiding the ports puts the system into military 3, meaning I just wasted a great deal of effort hauling a ship that is basically useless now unless I stop ratting for days).

In military 4 I get the 2 hubs necessary for 1 person to run 60m hour, and in military 5, I probably have enough for 2 people to rat because there are 3 hubs - but military 5 probably requires 3 people ratting to actually hit it. which the system doesn't offer unless they aren't in the same TZ.

Note that I easily blitz 60m/hr with a dominix running for FIO (which just has a basic gallente navy LP store), and I can blitz more than 100m/hr for sisters with a dominix. I don't need a billion isk in the ihub, I don't need to make a freighter run and 4 JF runs to set it up, I don't need to fuel a pos, and I don't need to warp into the pos and select a PVP ship everytime someone enters the system.

ie TL;DR dominion isk making system is oriented towards an entirely different organisational structure than the dominion strategic system is, hence all the bitching, and hence the obvious observation that some 10 regions are now almost entirely populated by the renters who have organisations more suited to actually extracting some value out of the terrible flyover territory that makes up most of null.