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Mobile Sentry Drone Control Distruptor
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#21 - 2013-12-20 17:49:03 UTC
Why not just make tracking disruptors affect Sentry Drones?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Anthar Thebess
#22 - 2013-12-20 22:42:44 UTC
How do you think tracing disruptor will affect drones at their maximum optimal range.
If you fly in frigate - this may actually help.
But any thing bigger will still get alphed.
2500 drones , that have different optimal range.

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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#23 - 2013-12-20 22:57:31 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Why not just make tracking disruptors affect Sentry Drones?

They do, you just have to manually target each individual drone to do it.
A simple way would be that drones use the sensors of the host ship as their onboard computers aren't capable of doing all the calculations, so EWar on the host ship would then affect drones. With the exception of Agressive drones in ECM which would continue to fire at random targets, but ECM would stop drone assist.
At that point if it's outside the host ships lock range, it won't engage even if assisted. And you can sensibly TD drones by TD'ing the drone ship.
Of course, this would also make drones far weaker and remove one of their unique elements. So they would need to be buffed in some other way to make this work.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2013-12-21 05:02:41 UTC
why stop there... ? why not also add - mobile docking supressors: to see players can't dock or undock... deployable implant inhibitors: to reduce or kill all bonuses from implants... a freight siphon : to steal things from freighters as they pass.. an espionage unit: to stop construction and research in labs and factories... a mobile framer: to plant contraband in the cargo of passing players... a deployable pickpock module: to steal a small amount from all passing wallets... a jump dampener: to stop people from being able to jump clone away... a mobile conversation killer: to stop a player from calling for help.... a deployable population dampener: to keep players from logging into the game....... Roll

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Anthar Thebess
#25 - 2013-12-22 23:38:19 UTC
Remember that we are talking about something that will limit optimal range on "large weapon system" to 90KM
This will be at MAXIMUM units deployed.

Drop max optimal range dampers on any other large guns .
So from this point of view it will be still not big nerf like other weapon system get from theirs ewar.

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Hadrian Therga
Doomheim
#26 - 2013-12-23 13:56:55 UTC
+1
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2013-12-23 14:11:46 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Deployable structure.
When deployed it reduces Sentry drone optimal range and tracking speed.
Structure cannot be scoped again to cargo.
- 50k ehp
- 1h lifetime

Effect is stackable up to 10 MSDCD and maximum penalty effect is 50% of optimal range and 25% to tracking speed.
(5 % optimal range hit and 2.5% to tracking speed per MSDCD)

Simple way to fix drone assist mechanic without touching the mechanic itself.

Slowcats / Dominxes will have their optimal range disrupted from 180 -> 90KM.
90KM is still good optimal for LARGE weapon system.




Why not simply limit a max of 25 drones assigned to same ship?


Easier.... simpler... less disrupting. ANd less biased against PL fleet...

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Anthar Thebess
#28 - 2013-12-23 14:23:35 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
[quote=Anthar Thebess]Deployable structure.
Why not simply limit a max of 25 drones assigned to same ship?
Easier.... simpler... less disrupting. ANd less biased against PL fleet...


Because the problem is also in the base design of slowcat.
Try hitting from your dread a frigate or ahac.

Yes you can do it , but at the same there is no point of trying it as this will be hard. Ship have to be totally webed, painted and your dread must have as many tracking mods as he can get.

This makes sense.

Carrier dropping dozen of typical drones also is ok - drones have to catch you.
You can smarbomb them, run from them etc.

But carrier dropping dozen of sentry drones is totaly sick!.
Sentry drones = guns.

So you have capital ship firing subcap guns that have excellent tracking and can easily hit frigate or ahac.
Carriers have also ability to mount capital sized remote repair systems, and local capital repair systems.
They have capital level tank, that is far more bigger than the one you have on dread.

So we are talking about Capital ship, equipped in capital level repair , and remote repair modules firing bonused! guns ( bonus in drone number) .

This is the concept i don't like.

The base concept of carrier dropping drones and fighters is ok , but at the moment when it is escalating to the slowcat fleet is totally broken.

For the same reason mother ships lost their drones and can only use capital level fighters and fighter bombers.

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Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2013-12-23 14:51:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
Disrregardign what you do not like, and focusing on what is BROKEN.

The limit on assistance would mean that no huge alpha strike can be applied before the ship can be repaired, That by itself would diminish a LOT of the problems.


Add something like, track disruptors affecting all drones under control of that specific ship and you open up space to coutner those fleets. You just need to distinguish which of the ships are controlling (by a bit of trial and error).

The fleets would continue to be very very powerful but could be countered with effort.

With your proposal, dreads becomes infinitely more powerful than carriers on capital combat and that jsut swings the table to the other side.


Duringmost of eve history fights were boring because everythign would die so fast... now that we have fleets that can keep most ships alive , lets be subtle on the nerfing, Throwing everythgin back to the old times is bad because a single fight meant the end of war .

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Anthar Thebess
#30 - 2013-12-23 15:06:50 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Disrregardign what you do not like, and focusing on what is BROKEN.

The limit on assistance would mean that no huge alpha strike can be applied before the ship can be repaired, That by itself would diminish a LOT of the problems.


Add something like, track disruptors affecting all drones under control of that specific ship and you open up space to coutner those fleets. You just need to distinguish which of the ships are controlling (by a bit of trial and error).

The fleets would continue to be very very powerful but could be countered with effort.

With your proposal, dreads becomes infinitely more powerful than carriers on capital combat and that jsut swings the table to the other side.


First.
Slowcat fleet will keep its tank, remote ability and 90km range of sentry drones.
But it will be vulnerable to subcap fleets , as current 180km "insta-dead" sphere is totally sick.

You cannot drop subcap fleet on to slowcat fleet as you get insta killed and each of slowcats have multi million ehp and can be repped by 230 other carriers.
You cannot switch of their logistic capabilities as you cannot ewar motherships.

Next.
Carrier main role is remote repair ( triage module)
Dread main role is dps ( siege module)

Third
Drop ahac fleet on dreads :
- they cannot hit you when you move
- they don't have ability to be remote repaired by other dread
- they need to be sieged to do proper damage
- if you drop them without support , even small destroyer fleet easily kill them all

Drop ahac fleet on slowcats:
- they can easily hit you with sentry drones
- they have ability to remote repair ( using capital size ) repair systems self and rest of the fleet
- they don't use triage.
- you don't have to use subcap fleet to support them - unlimited sentry drone storage/ ehp / repair and remote repair ability.

So ships designed for logistics are far more better when you use them in fights.

So yes you are right - dreads will be for DPS in capital combat, carriers will be for support.







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Motoko Innocentius
Domus Dei
#31 - 2013-12-23 18:14:55 UTC
Are you also ok if another structure is made that does the same for all turret weapons and missiles?

Tbh, your idea is as stupid as anything, you don't fix things by adding new mobile modules, that is not how things should be done. Balancing is done by adjusting what is not working as intended.

On a side note, if this kind of change would happen, should it happen before the cfcrusrusbl vs n3plnc. war has ended or after ?
Anthar Thebess
#32 - 2013-12-23 18:51:40 UTC
This will affect both sides.
CFC also moves to "dones online".
This is sick, i want REAL eve not "assist to trigger - orbit"

Where is the place of NEW eve players?
In renter alliances only?

At what point one of the sides decide - we don't need any more players - to many mouths to feed already.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

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Motoko Innocentius
Domus Dei
#33 - 2013-12-24 09:27:21 UTC
Doing a balance run just to allow yourside to win in the war is p stupid, whine after the wars settled. Nerfing during war only makes it look like ccp is on cfc's side as they are the biggest whine machine. I also see no reason for whining about this at this very moment, slowcats have been out for ages and everyone has known how they work. Timing your whine thread so it could affect a war you're part of is.. well you get the idea.

On the matter itself, there's still no reason to use your proposal as it is nothing but a bad idea and only leads to very bad outcomes.
Lei Merdeau
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
#34 - 2013-12-24 11:10:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Lei Merdeau
Drake Doe wrote:
Batelle wrote:

The worst offender of the issue is the drone assist mechanic, which allows a billion carriers to target switch with perfect robot speed.

That proves how the real problem is the drone assist mechanic, as it provides an option that no other weapon can match.


I suspect the reason we still have this problem is that its also a solution. Having one player control all the drones reduces the load on the server.
sci0gon
Kaira Innovations
#35 - 2013-12-26 00:07:20 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
The simplest way to crash a node is to deploy all sentries.

All weapon systems have some ewar working on them.
Guns - you can tracking /optimal rang disrupt. You can jam , drain cap , sensor disturb
Missiles - you place 1-2 "firewall" smartbombing ships - and most of the damage is gone.
Drones - you just assign them to someone and that's it. This person get some ewar - you just assign it to someone else.

There is no ewar against the drones and the assign mechanic.


node crashing is pretty much what goons are famous for, stuffing as many players into one system as they can and spamming local with nonsense to help push the node to its limit before poof everyone rushes to login to make sure they are safe.

ewar aside, all turret based weapons and missile launchers have implants which affect there overall dps, drones currently do not which to be honest im pretty surprised especially with ships such as the six t1 variants of Amarr and Gallente's drone bonus ships.
Luna Arindale
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#36 - 2013-12-26 05:40:20 UTC
This Isn't even a thread about drones anymore, it is a thread about carriers. Oh and before anyone brings up omnidirectional tracking links, they do have stacking penalties. Sentry Drones are not instant dps, they hit for a lot of damage yes, but it is not instantaneous. The frustrations people have is related to drones becoming a weapon type and not just a source of extra dps. Unlike other weapons it can and will be destroyed. In regards to this you point out the carrier's drone bay size. I agree that it is a bit crazy, but that bay was designed for fighters. So the problem here is not drones, but the carrier being able to flight any type of drone.

In the meantime we at in the middle of a rebalance, so these "OP" ships are temporary until the other ships are made up to this new standard. I doubt we will see a change until CCP releases a new EWAR ship, or rebalances the carrier. So quit blaming the drones, they are not quite as OP as you think.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#37 - 2013-12-26 06:05:54 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Disrregardign what you do not like, and focusing on what is BROKEN.

The limit on assistance would mean that no huge alpha strike can be applied before the ship can be repaired, That by itself would diminish a LOT of the problems.


Add something like, track disruptors affecting all drones under control of that specific ship and you open up space to coutner those fleets. You just need to distinguish which of the ships are controlling (by a bit of trial and error).

The fleets would continue to be very very powerful but could be countered with effort.

With your proposal, dreads becomes infinitely more powerful than carriers on capital combat and that jsut swings the table to the other side.


Duringmost of eve history fights were boring because everythign would die so fast... now that we have fleets that can keep most ships alive , lets be subtle on the nerfing, Throwing everythgin back to the old times is bad because a single fight meant the end of war .

I agree with this besides the td part, as long as my drones can be destroyed they should require ewar directly applied to them.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#38 - 2013-12-26 06:08:11 UTC
Lei Merdeau wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
Batelle wrote:

The worst offender of the issue is the drone assist mechanic, which allows a billion carriers to target switch with perfect robot speed.

That proves how the real problem is the drone assist mechanic, as it provides an option that no other weapon can match.


I suspect the reason we still have this problem is that its also a solution. Having one player control all the drones reduces the load on the server.

The same amount of actions are occurring regardless, I doubt that requiring separate input increases sever load by a notable amount in comparison.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Dan Seavey Allier
Seavy Acquisitions
#39 - 2014-01-10 11:41:54 UTC
Manssell wrote:
If you're trying to address the drone assist issue with this, why not just have the deployable disrupt the ability to assign the drones? Deploy structure, everyone on grid has to control their own drones.



Uh....what he said.

Dan

Honey Never Sleeps. - John Russell
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2014-01-10 11:48:58 UTC
Manssell wrote:
If you're trying to address the drone assist issue with this, why not just have the deployable disrupt the ability to assign the drones? Deploy structure, everyone on grid has to control their own drones.


Actually I like this idea better. Give it an AOE though so that you have to deliver them on target to the drone boat fleet to impinge them.

To stop the drone assist issue I would much rather see a change whereby you can only be assisted by as many drones as you can interface with.

This could be a nice interim measure that's is more rapidly deployable. Also I want my 'Droover(tm)', a drone hoover that can be deployed onto a crashed grid after restart to go collect me the gazillion drones floating around all lonely :D
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