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Mobile Sentry Drone Control Distruptor
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Anthar Thebess
#1 - 2013-12-20 08:52:37 UTC
Deployable structure.
When deployed it reduces Sentry drone optimal range and tracking speed.
Structure cannot be scoped again to cargo.
- 50k ehp
- 1h lifetime

Effect is stackable up to 10 MSDCD and maximum penalty effect is 50% of optimal range and 25% to tracking speed.
(5 % optimal range hit and 2.5% to tracking speed per MSDCD)

Simple way to fix drone assist mechanic without touching the mechanic itself.

Slowcats / Dominxes will have their optimal range disrupted from 180 -> 90KM.
90KM is still good optimal for LARGE weapon system.

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Electrique Wizard
Mutually Lucrative Business Proposals
#2 - 2013-12-20 09:32:59 UTC
IB4 butthurt responses.

Anyhow I'm all for different kinds of ewar deployables. More metagaming and deployables.

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Anthar Thebess
#3 - 2013-12-20 10:03:10 UTC
Electrique Wizard wrote:
IB4 butthurt responses.

Anyhow I'm all for different kinds of ewar deployables. More metagaming and deployables.


This is not buthurt response.
I can deploy 2 archon slowcats , 3rd is on the way.

Drone assist mechanic is just broken , and i don't like the idea for eve that for every problem there is only one solution.
Drop slowcats , and if this is enough drop more, and more , until node dies.

The simplest way to crash a node is to deploy all sentries.

All weapon systems have some ewar working on them.
Guns - you can tracking /optimal rang disrupt. You can jam , drain cap , sensor disturb
Missiles - you place 1-2 "firewall" smartbombing ships - and most of the damage is gone.
Drones - you just assign them to someone and that's it. This person get some ewar - you just assign it to someone else.

There is no ewar against the drones and the assign mechanic.

This is how it can be simply solved without touching the mechanic itself ,and affected ships will still keep 90km optimal range on the LARGE weapon system.

Grid wide, stackable without the penalty, but up to 10 structures?
Easier to calculate for servers.
Instead of calculating this for every drone , just apply the effect to ship , and check if something changed every minute.
Minimal workload for servers.
1 information that needs to be applied to all ships on grid every 1 or 2 minutes.

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Mascha Tzash
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2013-12-20 10:15:57 UTC
And the next thing someone proposes ist acid damage and fear-/taunt mechanics.

Better disallow all forms of drones except fighters and fighter bombers for capitals.
Anthar Thebess
#5 - 2013-12-20 10:24:11 UTC
Drone assist mechanic is broken also for all drone boats.
And this can be applied to all of them.

You can easily fight this kind of ewar - by brining with you subcap fleet capable of destroying those deployable structures.

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Dav Varan
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-12-20 10:24:36 UTC
How does it know which drones to disrupt ?
Friendly / hostiles / neutrals etc.
Anthar Thebess
#7 - 2013-12-20 10:30:23 UTC
All of them.
Thats the point.
Not every ewar have to be focused only on enemy ships..
Again this is to limit the load of eve servers.

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Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#8 - 2013-12-20 12:20:51 UTC
You seem to be forgetting that just like missiles, drones are easily destroyed.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Anthar Thebess
#9 - 2013-12-20 12:29:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Drake Doe wrote:
You seem to be forgetting that just like missiles, drones are easily destroyed.


Unless we are talking about carriers.
This was already raised more than once that all drone boats can easily scope drones and redeploy them second later preventing their destruction.
You can still do it when we are talking about subcap fleets.
But carriers - this is something different.

Archon have 80000 m3 of drone bay.
Sentry drone takes 25m3.
So one carrier can carry up to 3200 sentry drones.

How much time will take to kill 3200 sentry drones that your enemy can scope and redeploy 2 seconds later?

Now multiply this value by 250 - as usually you have so many carriers in slowcat fleet.

We are also talking about capital ships that can jump out from battlefield, dock up, refill drone bay , and jump back 1 minute later.

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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#10 - 2013-12-20 12:36:13 UTC
Or you just destroy these structures with your drones.
Anthar Thebess
#11 - 2013-12-20 12:49:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Or you just destroy these structures with your drones.


Yes and no.
They are destroyable so you can remove this ewar from grid.
But:
If you just drop carriers - your 90km sentry drones will be not able to hit structure that is located 150km.

Option 1:
Use fighters - this will work, but will also limit the number of sentry drones you can carry, and fighters cannot be so easily scoped , they can be destroyed outside of 2500 sentry drones from slowcat fleet.

Option 2:
Drop long range , unsieged dreads, again this will work - but small signature and ability to deploy multiple structures will make those dreads vulnerable.
Even unsieged, and RR by carriers they can still be killed by alpha strike.
And you can use subcaps for this that dont have to be 180k away. So tornados , malelstorms will work.

Option 3:
Bring subcap fleet that will be killing those structures.
Again this will work - but you can fight with this subcap fleet.


The point is that from my perspective Large weapon system ( and sentry drones are actually LARGE GUNS) hitting for 100% damage at 90 KM is still very effective weapon system.
It forces both sides to use multiple tactics/ multiple setups in order to achieve victory.

Now 2500 drones hitting at 180KM for 100% damage, assigned to small , fast locking target, that can be replaced at any time, deployed by multimillion ehp ship (archon) are something that cannot be countered in any normal way.

Because there is no other weapon system that will allow to kill archon repped by 249 others from 180km range.

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Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2013-12-20 13:27:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Awesome idea actually.
Inspired by this one I decided to suggest another mobile structure similar to this one:
Mega Pulse Laser Targeting disruptor.
Makes exactly as much sense.

And no, trying to make such an idea pass for "limiting servers load" won't fly. Especially if you consider that people still can unload flight after flight of crap not intending to shoot with it...

EVE population should really stop suggesting CCP to make workarounds. If you really want devs to spend their time, suggest end-all changes. Workarouds are for when you don't have access to code.

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Anthar Thebess
#13 - 2013-12-20 13:48:52 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Awesome idea actually.
Inspired by this one I decided to suggest another mobile structure similar to this one:
Mega Pulse Laser Targeting disruptor.
Makes exactly as much sense.

And no, trying to make such an idea pass for "limiting servers load" won't fly. Especially if you consider that people still can unload flight after flight of crap not intending to shoot with it...

EVE population should really stop suggesting CCP to make workarounds. If you really want devs to spend their time, suggest end-all changes. Workarouds are for when you don't have access to code.


Yes post this from your neutral alt - have the courage...

If you check my post you will see that we have multiple ewar/options against missles / guns but we are missing one for drones.

Guns you can tracking disturb , optimal range disturb.
You can scanress or lockrange damp gunn or missle ship.
Missles can be firewalled by smartbomb ship.

Assisted drones are immune to all forms of ewar, as you can always change assist to any other player in fleet.

This is not a workaround , but new option that can also solve one of the major issues.

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Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#14 - 2013-12-20 14:36:22 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
You seem to be forgetting that just like missiles, drones are easily destroyed.


Unless we are talking about carriers.
This was already raised more than once that all drone boats can easily scope drones and redeploy them second later preventing their destruction.
You can still do it when we are talking about subcap fleets.
But carriers - this is something different.

Archon have 80000 m3 of drone bay.
Sentry drone takes 25m3.
So one carrier can carry up to 3200 sentry drones.

How much time will take to kill 3200 sentry drones that your enemy can scope and redeploy 2 seconds later?

Now multiply this value by 250 - as usually you have so many carriers in slowcat fleet.

We are also talking about capital ships that can jump out from battlefield, dock up, refill drone bay , and jump back 1 minute later.

I think the forum is looking for posts to eat, setbacks aside the same strategy that applys to missiles applys to carriers, particularly in large fleets where they're usually bunched together. I'd personally love to see a group of carriers continuously get it's drones alphaed by a couple of smart bombing Battleships. So now that the carriers have to keep redeploying, they're losing dps while you get more time to organize your logistics to keep your ships alive.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Anthar Thebess
#15 - 2013-12-20 14:58:10 UTC
The problem is range of those carriers.
They are usually spread in much more bigger than 30k.
Now you can drop as much smart bombing BS as you need and kill the drones, but we are talking about carriers.
They can refit on battle.

So they will mount smart bombs and - smart bomb the battleships - refit again and redeploy next set of drones.

What do you think what will happen - you will run out of smart bombing BS or carriers out of drones?
Most of them will scope drones, or they will be outside BS smart bomb range.

Now next issue - how you can get bs in the proper position if carriers are usually in warp bubbles.


Titans wont help - unless you drop 3x more than carriers - they are DD prof , and node will sooner than you manage to kill them.

Dropping motherships wont help either.
Fighter bomber dies from 90 cycles of a smart bomb.
Carriers can refit and mount more than 1 smartbomb.

250 carriers x 4 smartbombs -> that's how effective mothership FB are effective against slowcat fleet.

Now limiting drone range to 90km at the same open many possibilities even for a subcap fleet and forces enemy to deploy also a subcap, more mobile, support fleet that must kill those structures.

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Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#16 - 2013-12-20 15:18:18 UTC
now you're just throwing spaghetti at the wall.

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Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#17 - 2013-12-20 15:19:46 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
The problem is range of those carriers.
They are usually spread in much more bigger than 30k.
Now you can drop as much smart bombing BS as you need and kill the drones, but we are talking about carriers.
They can refit on battle.

So they will mount smart bombs and - smart bomb the battleships - refit again and redeploy next set of drones.

What do you think what will happen - you will run out of smart bombing BS or carriers out of drones?
Most of them will scope drones, or they will be outside BS smart bomb range.

Now next issue - how you can get bs in the proper position if carriers are usually in warp bubbles.


Titans wont help - unless you drop 3x more than carriers - they are DD prof , and node will sooner than you manage to kill them.

Dropping motherships wont help either.
Fighter bomber dies from 90 cycles of a smart bomb.
Carriers can refit and mount more than 1 smartbomb.

250 carriers x 4 smartbombs -> that's how effective mothership FB are effective against slowcat fleet.

Now limiting drone range to 90km at the same open many possibilities even for a subcap fleet and forces enemy to deploy also a subcap, more mobile, support fleet that must kill those structures.


I doubt that many people bother to split their carrier groups up other than to prevent them from bumping. Bring bombers then, there are other ways to remove drones with aoe weapons, and they can launch from far out of smart bomb range AND cloak before the carriers refit.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#18 - 2013-12-20 15:22:52 UTC
the problem with killing the drones is that a carrier doesn't run out of drones. Even fi they bring 50 flights of t2 sentries, they can carry even more than that, and if you get good at killing drones, they can use t1, which have negligible cost.

The worst offender of the isssue is the drone assist mechanic, which allows a billion carriers to target switch with perfect robot speed.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
#19 - 2013-12-20 17:12:41 UTC
If you're trying to address the drone assist issue with this, why not just have the deployable disrupt the ability to assign the drones? Deploy structure, everyone on grid has to control their own drones.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#20 - 2013-12-20 17:45:49 UTC
Batelle wrote:
the problem with killing the drones is that a carrier doesn't run out of drones. Even fi they bring 50 flights of t2 sentries, they can carry even more than that, and if you get good at killing drones, they can use t1, which have negligible cost.

The worst offender of the isssue is the drone assist mechanic, which allows a billion carriers to target switch with perfect robot speed.

That proves how the real problem is the drone assist mechanic, as it provides an option that no other weapon can match.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
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