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The Post-Oxytopes World

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Roywyn Kolkor
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#221 - 2011-11-21 17:02:51 UTC
Just been lurking more then posting. But it's not just a claim, was cruising around all the icebelt systems and just noticing that miners have gone out to do their stuff in a massive amount again.
Don't get me wrong, what you are doing is brilliant but I can not imagine you holding up 23/7 in ALL belts ALL the time ?
L1m9n1663r
Doomheim
#222 - 2011-11-21 18:04:13 UTC
Roywyn Kolkor wrote:
Just been lurking more then posting. But it's not just a claim, was cruising around all the icebelt systems and just noticing that miners have gone out to do their stuff in a massive amount again.
Don't get me wrong, what you are doing is brilliant but I can not imagine you holding up 23/7 in ALL belts ALL the time ?


First off all, the miners that mine now, and are not blown up, are tanked to hell and back.
They have removed one low-slot mining-gank module.
They use Scimitar/Basilisk or BS Medics.
There are even some hulks out there with more than 30K EHP set up to farm killmails.

And even if, there at one time is 50 macks mining blue ice, that is what USED to be within 1 jump of Tolle alone.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#223 - 2011-11-21 18:10:16 UTC
the people who try to tank and fail are by far the most fun

i had one guy who stuck 100m worth of faction hardeners on his mack and had tons of repping support

except he left a big EM hole in his fit so I alphaed him with EMP, scooped the wreck, and wooted irl

alphaing miners owns im gonna buy myself a tornado bpo and do it all day every day

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#224 - 2011-11-21 18:11:28 UTC
the faction hardener that dropped paid for my apoc by itself

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#225 - 2011-11-21 18:14:37 UTC
seriously you can see how much effort the guy put in when you alpha him and can just feel the smug radiating out and them his ship just vanishes

no damage, no notification, no nothing: just in a ship one second and a pod the next wondering what the hell just happened and then where that wreck named "WOOTINATOR PRIME" came from ~15s later about 20km away

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Sephiroth Clone VII
Brothers of Tyr
Goonswarm Federation
#226 - 2011-11-21 22:27:55 UTC
do you have a alt to alpha the pod right after the ship blows up?
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#227 - 2011-11-21 23:18:32 UTC
Sephiroth CloneIIV wrote:
do you have a alt to alpha the pod right after the ship blows up?


no, I should do that - to pod people I try to warp to my orca, grab a thrasher, and warp back, but the long lag time between when I alpha someone and my apoc dies means they'll usually warp out in time

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Trelo Aumer
Doomheim
#228 - 2011-11-21 23:51:30 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Sephiroth CloneIIV wrote:
do you have a alt to alpha the pod right after the ship blows up?


no, I should do that - to pod people I try to warp to my orca, grab a thrasher, and warp back, but the long lag time between when I alpha someone and my apoc dies means they'll usually warp out in time

I guess you could try switching from an apoc to a tempest with lots of webs/tps in the mids so you can hit at point-blank range and then have dual smartbombs in the utility highs to get the pod.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#229 - 2011-11-22 00:45:05 UTC
Can you guys please get it to a point where it is prohibitively expensive for highsec corps and alliances to maintain POS towers, partularly large towers. Every two bit industrial corp seems to have a dickstar these days.
Koronakesh
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
#230 - 2011-11-22 04:11:49 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Can you guys please get it to a point where it is prohibitively expensive for highsec corps and alliances to maintain POS towers, partularly large towers. Every two bit industrial corp seems to have a dickstar these days.
Sadly, this is only part of the problem, since there's still no way for it to be unanchored nonconsensually. Coming across a dozen offline Shadow / DG large towers and not being able to scoop them is rather.... frustrating.

SASPR Amir al-Mu'minin
Jessica Cartier
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#231 - 2011-11-22 05:22:38 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
the people who try to tank and fail are by far the most fun
i had one guy who stuck 100m worth of faction hardeners on his mack and had tons of repping support
except he left a big EM hole in his fit so I alphaed him with EMP, scooped the wreck, and wooted irl
alphaing miners owns im gonna buy myself a tornado bpo and do it all day every day

I'll vouch for this idiocy. I watched one moron go down with Domination hardeners this past weekend.

Faction fitting a mining ship as a defense against suicide ganking has to rank up there as one of the dumbest things you can do in Eve.
Jessica Cartier
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#232 - 2011-11-22 06:08:08 UTC
Roywyn Kolkor wrote:
Just been lurking more then posting. But it's not just a claim, was cruising around all the icebelt systems and just noticing that miners have gone out to do their stuff in a massive amount again.
Don't get me wrong, what you are doing is brilliant but I can not imagine you holding up 23/7 in ALL belts ALL the time ?

I saw the same thing, so, sadly, this isn't just an idle claim. GoonWaffe aces - like Weaselior - are inflicting massive damage, but the few active kamikazes can't be everywhere, all of the time. Unfortunately, there is no way to track exactly how many miners are slipping through the interdiction. But, the interdiction would certainly benefit by more coverage, ie. more pilots stationed in shifts in all of the ice systems, rather than just a couple of pilots trying to cover multiple systems all day long.

L1m9n1663r wrote:

First off all, the miners that mine now, and are not blown up, are tanked to hell and back.
They have removed one low-slot mining-gank module.
They use Scimitar/Basilisk or BS Medics.
There are even some hulks out there with more than 30K EHP set up to farm killmails.

As for tanking against suicide ganking, that's just plain stupid. You can't tank any mining ship against a dozen or more gank-fit BC's, even with faction hardeners, logi support, gang links, fleet boosters, combat boosters, hardwirings, etc.

And trying to farm killmails using a Hulk? This has to be a joke. Have you heard of ship scanners? The Goons have. Your 30K EHP Hulk is going to be on a killmail, for sure, but only as the lmao victim.

The only mining ships which are not being blown up are the ones which GTFO. Most of the mining fleets have put spy alts around in the ice systems - in stations and at gates - and just dock up the fleet whenever a known kamikaze shows up. When the kamikaze gates to another system, or even just docks up for a prolonged period, the fleet reappears and goes back to mining.
Tom Hagen
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#233 - 2011-11-22 06:38:52 UTC
Jessica Cartier wrote:

The only mining ships which are not being blown up are the ones which GTFO. Most of the mining fleets have put spy alts around in the ice systems - in stations and at gates - and just dock up the fleet whenever a known kamikaze shows up. When the kamikaze gates to another system, or even just docks up for a prolonged period, the fleet reappears and goes back to mining.



Still wouldn't the point of a bot be that you can mine 23/7 without babysitting your account. I do believe that Bots provide us with large amount of ice.
As such they have manage to reduce supply, and we can argue about the extent of their success. But it is still a success!

I don't really argue against you here, I just want to make a point against the implied business as usual for the miners.
flakeys
Doomheim
#234 - 2011-11-22 09:55:07 UTC
Trelo Aumer wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Sephiroth CloneIIV wrote:
do you have a alt to alpha the pod right after the ship blows up?


no, I should do that - to pod people I try to warp to my orca, grab a thrasher, and warp back, but the long lag time between when I alpha someone and my apoc dies means they'll usually warp out in time

I guess you could try switching from an apoc to a tempest with lots of webs/tps in the mids so you can hit at point-blank range and then have dual smartbombs in the utility highs to get the pod.


Killed 8 macks and their pods at one go about a year back solo , all you need is a smartbomb bs.

Bloating about killing a defenseless ship and then even only taking one at a time , really weaselidiot you can do better i am sure.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Jessica Cartier
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#235 - 2011-11-22 10:24:14 UTC
Tom Hagen wrote:

Still wouldn't the point of a bot be that you can mine 23/7 without babysitting your account. I do believe that Bots provide us with large amount of ice.
As such they have manage to reduce supply, and we can argue about the extent of their success. But it is still a success!

I don't really argue against you here, I just want to make a point against the implied business as usual for the miners.

I agree with you, when you say that the bots provided most of the ice, which people just bought off the market. But, that was in the past, when it was cheap. When the price went up, a lot of people stopped buying blue ice and oxygen isotopes. As someone else wrote in a post, you can see this on the market history.

So, where are these people getting their oxygen isotopes now, if they are not buying it off market?

One source is stockpiles. Ok, I can believe that, esp. when Jester recently posted on his blog that he has a 1 year supply of fuel for his tower. But, not much you can do about stockpiles, except keep the interdiction going and wait for them to run out.

What about the other people with no stockpile?

One guess is that they stopped using Gallente towers and changed to Amarr, Minmatar or Caldari towers. Not much can be done about this either, except maybe expand the interdiction to all other ice. (I like this idea - it would really drive everyone crazy).

Another guess is that players are sneaking in and mining it themselves, or getting someone else to do it for them. This is what I think is going on now, when I see these ice fleets running around.

Here is my reasoning:

The biggest users of isotopes are POS users. Most POS users are industrial corps and most industrial corps have plenty of miners to chew up 'roids. Most miners train up to fly a Hulk, so that means they can also fly a Mack - or just use the Hulk for ice mining. Now, I've been told that a single Mack can mine enough ice in one day to run a large POS, at max power, for a month. So, a corp's Mack fleet would only need to sneak in for a few hours per month, to keep their towers running.

The next biggest users of isotopes are probably pilots of jump drive ships. But, most jump drive ships are owned by players who belong to corps which belong to alliances. And, most alliances have at least one industrial corp, which has plenty of miners, blah, blah, blah, and et cetera.

So, it is not enough to just stop the bot fleets. The player miners need to be stopped, too!
Jessica Cartier
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#236 - 2011-11-22 10:36:11 UTC
flakeys wrote:

Killed 8 macks and their pods at one go about a year back solo , all you need is a smartbomb bs.

Bloating about killing a defenseless ship and then even only taking one at a time , really weaselidiot you can do better i am sure.

Maybe your strategy worked last year, but this year most of the miners have learned to avoid clumping up in smartbomb range.

Weaselior and friends have killed more than 2,400 mining ships so far. That is something worth "bloating" about.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#237 - 2011-11-22 12:06:59 UTC
flakeys wrote:
Killed 8 macks and their pods at one go about a year back solo , all you need is a smartbomb bs.

Bloating about killing a defenseless ship and then even only taking one at a time , really weaselidiot you can do better i am sure.

While all goons are fat, I think the word you're looking for is "gloating". As for the rest of your post, Jessica said it all. Miners aren't as dumb anymore.

In fact, try to replicate your feat now, in gallente space. I await your API-verified killmails.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Roywyn Kolkor
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#238 - 2011-11-22 12:21:44 UTC
You guys expecting the prices to go up even more ? I got blown up in my macky earlier today btw :'( , maybe if I wait and sell it I can make my macky back.
Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#239 - 2011-11-22 12:42:55 UTC
I regret that I only invested 10b when the price was 400/pu
flakeys
Doomheim
#240 - 2011-11-22 13:06:44 UTC
Jessica Cartier wrote:
flakeys wrote:

Killed 8 macks and their pods at one go about a year back solo , all you need is a smartbomb bs.

Bloating about killing a defenseless ship and then even only taking one at a time , really weaselidiot you can do better i am sure.


Weaselior and friends have killed more than 2,400 mining ships so far. That is something worth "bloating" about.


I'm sorry where did i mention the total amount of ships killed by goons was low because i fail to find that part?

I was refering to a 3 in a line post about killing one mack , that is gloating -thx goonie for teaching me english btw i fail bad - and said that if he wanted to gloat about pvp kills in a market discussion forum i am sure he could have a better thing to show.


We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.