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Sisters of EVE missions, 180m/hour in high sec, should we nerf it?
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Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2013-12-12 00:26:33 UTC
By the time an isk fountain is well known enough for their to be a misinformed, whiny thread about it....

....that fountain is drying up.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Stabdealer Tichim
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2013-12-12 05:33:15 UTC
I Love Boobies wrote:
Man, I love it when people come to the forums and start spewing numbers out their behinds. I do SOE missions, and I have never made anywhere near 180 million an hour, even dividing the time up and so on after getting enough LP for a SOE ship. Even with my main mission guy @ level 5 on the social skills. I even use multiple characters in Dominix to do missions at times. I must be doing it wrong or something.

OP probably didn't take account the 50% LP and isk cost of the High Sec SOE ships when making up those numbers.


You must be doing something wrong, I have linked the forum post that how people doing missions, try to learn better tactics before assume you've done the best.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#23 - 2013-12-12 06:02:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
I Love Boobies wrote:
Man, I love it when people come to the forums and start spewing numbers out their behinds. I do SOE missions, and I have never made anywhere near 180 million an hour, even dividing the time up and so on after getting enough LP for a SOE ship. Even with my main mission guy @ level 5 on the social skills. I even use multiple characters in Dominix to do missions at times. I must be doing it wrong or something.

OP probably didn't take account the 50% LP and isk cost of the High Sec SOE ships when making up those numbers.


Hey Boobs (can I call you Boobs? thanks), I highlighted your problem lol. A Mach, navy raven, typhoon fleet etc is what really steam rolls SOE missions.

Super high isk making from SOE missions is nothing new in anyway, it's always been that way, Sisters scan probes and probe launchers have always sold extremely well, and to a lesser extent so have virtue implants.

Having tested it myself, that Dominix in SOE missions is simply going to make more isk than the same Domi in null sec with full and exclusive access to Forsaken Hubs (still the best Anom despite it's crappy escalation, everything in a F.Hub spawns in one place so a high dps close range pirate BS like a mach or vindi will return super isk), the only other high end anom close to it is "pirate gate" haven). At the very best you're gonna pull 60 to 75 mil an hour with that domi in null (20 to 25 mil ticks).

i can do 100 mil an hour with a regular domi in Lannigisi or Osmon in isk plus LP, not even touching the new ships be rather simply selling Sisters core probes. Especially in osmon since in the Jita's region and smart buyers set up sell orders that can be filled from the osmon sister's station, no need to even more the loot.

Havn't gotten to 180 mil an hour quite (I top out at 165 in a tech2 fit mach), but it's 165 an hour in high sec, SOLO, without having to X up in an incursion channel or wait for an FC to organise a 40 man HQ fleet.

Edit: one more thing. That mach of mine that can make 165 mil an hour in the safety high sec (even before the introduction of the Sisters ships) tops out at 125 mil or so 40+ mil ticks in angel, guristas or serp space) farming anoms in null sec while having to stare at local and intel channels like a hawk. The faction spawn that usually drops ammo and a tag or the escalation that makes me do a 40 jump round trip to get only a 22nd tier OPE because of a random number generator TOTALLY makes up for everything lol.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#24 - 2013-12-12 06:13:30 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
It will nerf itself over time as more people realize the profitability and take advantage of it.

See: supply and demand, basic economics.


That would be true is the only valuable thing was the ships. it's not. Combat probes, core probes, both kinds of probe launchers, virtue implants, the scanning hardwirings, all these come from the Sister's LP store and people have been making a lot of isk on them for years. I know, I was doing Sisters lvl 4s in Gicodel (not far from Dodixie) 4 years ago, it paid for my 1st every Vigilant lol.

The Thukker agents in high sec aren't near as bad because Nomad implants are such a niche item, but sisters agents are just infinite fountains of isk because the items that come out of the LP store get consumed or blown up all the time. you can look on Eve-Central or ingame for the price histories of Sister's items.

And those prices will only rise because now some people will be using that LP for ships instead of the traditional sister's items listed above.
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#25 - 2013-12-12 06:19:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Pak Narhoo
So... what?
It's not like this is only for a handful available.
High sec people aren't stuck to living in high sec and visa versa null sec to null.

Right?

Edit: and how about those 20K sp characters flying in cheap frigs around a button making 4-600 mil AN HOUR!

Hrggrr grr.Ugh
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#26 - 2013-12-12 07:12:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Eugene Kerner
Not CCP is to be made responsible for that ISK/h ration but the players that hold the prize high. The more PVE players go for sister missions that are easily accessable in high sec the lower the prize will drop I suppose. With the Nestor the prize for the Crusier and the frigate might as well drop a little bit.
Edit:
Ceterum censeo Macharielem ad missionam esse delendam!

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Grunanca
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2013-12-12 07:20:57 UTC
Having done SOE missions myself to get a Stratios, I can say OP spew wrong numbers out his rear. I run them with a Domi+Tengu combo and can pull about 10k skillpoints per hour with 2 accounts. Thats 32 mil per hour. Add in loot and salvage and you have about 40 mil per hour. If you can make 180 mil per hour, send me a video of you doing it, and ill double your 1 hour income for the trouble.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#28 - 2013-12-12 08:30:33 UTC
Doesn't this thread belong in Market Discussion?

Day 0 Advice for New Players
marVLs
#29 - 2013-12-12 08:49:08 UTC  |  Edited by: marVLs
lol 180m/h so silly Lol OP forget to add hes doing it with 57 accounts, srly stop with that bull... 100-120 is max possible income with one char (3:1 LP transfer)
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#30 - 2013-12-12 08:56:19 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Various quotes, la la la.



You may call me Boobs... and OP was specifically talking about getting the SOE ships themselves with LPs, specifically the Stratios. And I used to use a Golem, then switched to a Rattlesnake, then switched to a Domi after they changed the drone bonuses since I had Gallente Battleship on V for when I had the Rattlesnake. And I wasn't disputing making more ISK with SoE missions than null sec, I was disputing the 180 million an hour, which you yourself said you cannot make. Blink

Anyway, you might get to 180 an hour if you were able to blitz every single mission, @ max LPs and social skills, which isn't going to happen because the LP rewards vary greatly between the missions. It's quite rare to get max LP reward consecutively, and not all missions can be blitzed fast, some you have to kill every single rat to complete. And it makes it even more difficult with the 4 hour wait on declining missions if you declined those types of missions.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#31 - 2013-12-12 09:03:11 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
if your point is 180m/hr as an income, I have some news for you
LP is ISK transferal, not injection
LP when converted into faction items function as an ISK sink
No ISK is ever transferred through LP. It's a pure sink, through and through.
Its nature doesn't affect the 180M ISK/h in the slightest, though.
Miasmos
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2013-12-12 09:14:01 UTC
The situation is not very bad. 180M/h is quite low for LP blitzing, and it's only dropping as people flock on to it. The nullsec reward is a third better iirc? If anything it is interesting that people get together.

Illaren Zinfandel
3rd Fleet
#33 - 2013-12-12 09:16:09 UTC
180 mil an hour is not possible ...

best you can get in an unralistic szenario is:

~~ 150 mil / h

(3 x dread pilot scarlet in a row; 1100 dps looting + salvaging while flying the mission; killing Scaarlet in 3rd pocket for implant and therefore blitzing the mission)

3 x 17,5 mil bounty
26 mil loot + salvage + implants
24k lp a 3100 isk


this scenario is absolutly unrealistic .... and even in this case you cant get to the named 180 mil / h
80 - 90 mil /h is what you normaly get for running soe missions


fixed 0.0 income for the same ship:

3 x 25 mil bounty
60 mil loot + salvage

=> 135 mil / h
without factionspawns or expeditions ....
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#34 - 2013-12-12 09:25:46 UTC
Illaren Zinfandel wrote:
(3 x dread pilot scarlet in a row; 1100 dps looting + salvaging while flying the mission; killing Scaarlet in 3rd pocket for implant and therefore blitzing the mission)

3 x 17,5 mil bounty
26 mil loot + salvage + implants
24k lp a 3100 isk
That's not really blitzing it. If you blitz it, you get no loot, no salvage, and the 5M bounty (iirc) Scarlet herself is worth.
Stabdealer Tichim
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2013-12-12 09:28:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Stabdealer Tichim
Just feel interesting that so many nerds don't know how to push their income higher:

Recon 1 part of 3: done with vigil in 4 minutes, 4m+25m from lp, reject 2 part of 3
Pirate invasion, kill all key rats and then clear battleships, 15 minutes, 4M+8m bounty+23m from lp
Armarr tower shooting mission, done in a tengu, kite the tower in 8 minutes, 4m+20m lp

I'm not writing a mission guide, just some examples.

180m/hour is a quite conservative count, at peak I have made 210m in a hour

The core problem is that many people assume their awkward mission tactic universal. (not rejecting **** missions, killing unnecessary frigates, salvaging frigates, salvaging mission with few battleship rats)
Illaren Zinfandel
3rd Fleet
#36 - 2013-12-12 09:28:35 UTC
may i see your calculation for blitzing it your style? ;)
Good Posting
Doomheim
#37 - 2013-12-12 09:38:04 UTC
grrrrr hi sec
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2013-12-12 09:41:54 UTC
Stabdealer Tichim wrote:
180m isk per hour, and in high-sec?

Checked the lp ratio of Stratios, which has been stabled at 3100:1, three times higher than major faction navy.

According to the effectiveness people doing lv4 mission , we can estimate that in a Machariel it's possible to earn ~180m isk per hour (50% from LP) on average, which is even higher than most people killing anomalies in nullsec.
(Calculated using LP payout at Lanngisi 0.5 and Apanake 0.5 and 3100:1 lp ratio for Stratios BPC)

With the future of Nestor, the lp ratio for SOE may even increase or at least stable at current state

In a high-end mission ship(like Machariel, rattlesnake or marauder) with cheap factional/T2 mods(so you're never profitable to gank)



0.0/Low Alternative?

Even though ccp claimed that they want to make null/low sec competitive, there is only agent of The Sanctuary in X-70 that can be easily harassed, and practically it does not bring any alternative or competition to the high sec 0.5 hubs.


Apparently it is not well balanced. With the infinite potential to hold people in a single solar system, there are little reasons to compete with other missioners. Some people mentioned war or suicide gank, but they are rather ineffective and only harassed a few people that are extreme minority comparing to the whole population who's doing SOE lv4s.
And if people can play with some care, using insta undock bookmark and alt scout, the risk of ganking is then handed over to real newbies.



A problem?

The real problem is EVE's mission system. Missions from an agent is infinite and a high-sec system can theoretically live an infinite population.

Low-sec and null has its nature disadvantage that when a local has more than certain amount of people (say 30), there will be problem to see coming hostile, not to mention gate camps.

Is this a problem or we can just wait the "free market" to fix it by bring 1000 people to Lanngisi and Apanake local? Big smile


Dont be stupid. Its only that high because people are willign to pay absurd prices to the SOE ships. Only that.

As soon as the hype ends, and that shall take another 3-4 months, the price of the LP will halve.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2013-12-12 09:43:06 UTC
Stabdealer Tichim wrote:
Just feel interesting that so many nerds don't know how to push their income higher:

Recon 1 part of 3: done with vigil in 4 minutes, 4m+25m from lp, reject 2 part of 3
Pirate invasion, kill all key rats and then clear battleships, 15 minutes, 4M+8m bounty+23m from lp
Armarr tower shooting mission, done in a tengu, kite the tower in 8 minutes, 4m+20m lp

I'm not writing a mission guide, just some examples.

180m/hour is a quite conservative count, at peak I have made 210m in a hour

The core problem is that many people assume their awkward mission tactic universal. (not rejecting **** missions, killing unnecessary frigates, salvaging frigates, salvaging mission with few battleship rats)



Why reject 2 of 3? Warp in with battleship.. MJD to the gate.. complete in 1 minute. same with the part 3 of 3. Save the reject for a way worse mission

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Stabdealer Tichim
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2013-12-12 09:47:20 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Stabdealer Tichim wrote:
Just feel interesting that so many nerds don't know how to push their income higher:

Recon 1 part of 3: done with vigil in 4 minutes, 4m+25m from lp, reject 2 part of 3
Pirate invasion, kill all key rats and then clear battleships, 15 minutes, 4M+8m bounty+23m from lp
Armarr tower shooting mission, done in a tengu, kite the tower in 8 minutes, 4m+20m lp

I'm not writing a mission guide, just some examples.

180m/hour is a quite conservative count, at peak I have made 210m in a hour

The core problem is that many people assume their awkward mission tactic universal. (not rejecting **** missions, killing unnecessary frigates, salvaging frigates, salvaging mission with few battleship rats)



Why reject 2 of 3? Warp in with battleship.. MJD to the gate.. complete in 1 minute. same with the part 3 of 3. Save the reject for a way worse mission


My mistake, I usually mwd to biz it in a cruiser