EVE General Discussion

Hmm.

I agree FW is broken. It's never particularly worked as far as I recall though.

However

- timer rollbacks

Maybe not as clunky as an instant rollback. Perhaps only if you cloaked ongrid with the button :D

But yes, this is the sort of thing that wants looking at.

FW mechanics and plex mechanics are the key here.

- buffing the NPCs

We only just got them nerfed so we weren't having to fight with NPC-falcon :P

Unless Gallente NPCs start using NPC drones I don't see how this is going to stay balanced between missile NPCs and gun NPCs.

- rebalancing warp core stabs

Wrong approach.

The issue is FW being broken, not WCS.

WCS are irritating but generally quite well balanced so you can't do anything PVP-ey on a ship fitted with them.

- cloak prevention mechanism

Ditto. No problems with cloaks. As ever, the cloaked guys aren't achieving **** while they are cloaked and doing FW has firmed up my opinion that blubbing about cloaked dudes is for pussies. I suppose we could have some hyper specialised 30km sphere decloak tool for FW but that would be throwing a whole extra module and mechanic in to address the actual problem.

The actual problem is you can "do" FW properly on a disability wagon spec frig with a 3 day old character whilst avoiding PVP.

Looking at this as a long time FPS gamer, the game-type sucks.

Your objective should encourage PVP, not be apparently built for people avoiding it.

There is - they're just QQcatting that it's "too hard" and "boring".

It's not QQcatting so stop pretending that this is just a couple of FW folks whining over nothing. Again please provide something of use to the conversation besides calling folks lazy whiners.

SO tears much wine

TLDR: We want more PvP, not chasing stabbed frigates around,

Roime, you have my support

I am not my corpies. They bring up some valid points early in the thread, granted, I quit reading shortly into it because it became a trollfest.

We have alts who do our deplexing for us, so I doubt that's what they were getting at.

Not empty quoting.

Then stop chasing stabbed frigs around. Maybe stick around in a plex after chasing a dude out to run the timer down for yourself.

Bro, you're missing the main point of my corpmates are saying: farming LP from FW plexes is broken on the risk/reward ratio. If a faction is in Tier 3 (fairly common for the Caldari these days, was for the Gallente a few months back) capping a medium plex takes you a T1 frig with multiple stabs and a cloak, and in 20 minutes or so you earn 40k+ LPs that can be traded with a huge discount when sided with other NPC corp's LPs. As a comparison example, lvl 5 missions take at least a well tanked HAC to play solo - I know I guy that used to run them in passive-shield Ishtars back when they spawned in HS and NPCs didn't agro drones -, usually spawn in the same few (and mostly camped) systems and gives you 50-65k LP for a "regular" NPC corp, so they have roughly the same value as the 40k FW LPs. The stabbed/cloaked FW farmer can semi-AFK them since he can warp when he hears the shield alarm (multiple stabs FTW), while in a lvl5 if you try it you'll probably end up dead. So, for the same reward, one risks 400k, the other 200-300M.

No one here is saying ppl HAVE to fight for a plex. If you think you're outgunned and/or outnumbered then run, no shame in it. Pick your battles and all. But don't tell us that running shouldn't have consequences. Like CCP likes to say, "your actions matter" (or some other phrasing). A timer rollback to neutral (both offensive and defensive) is fair, as the installation would be "repairing" from the attack or "loosing the buff" from the extra defender (since you or someone else compared it to skirmish warfare on a previous post). An accelerated timer to neutral if the opposite side is present (for both sides) would make sense with the same rationale IMO.

And the rats must be buffed again. CCP nerfed them on previous iterations because their DPS was too much and counted as a second (sometimes third) enemy in the plex, making fights too hard for the other side and that discouraged PVP when the rats were still alive. I think that was a right choice, but their tank needs to be buffed back at least on small, medium and large plexes. You don't break a tank of a lvl3 HS mission rat with a stabbed/cloaked t1 frig, so why should you on a plex? Make the rats respawn when the timer resets too, since "reinforcements" would be expected if an installation was under attack during a war, wouldn't it?

Also, we don't have anything against people "printing money" from FW. FW Missions are there for it (another grossly outbalanced risk/reward ratio IMO), and Caldari and Minmatar can do them in a single bomber, so go farm them. But if you're coming to take over a system (and farmers do exactly that!), then the risk should be higher. And when a 1-month toon complains in local that we don't leave him alone to earn his LPs, we gently tell him to f*** off! =)

Finally, as for us being "grotesquely outnumbered at the moment", we really don't care. We love to fight, and that just means more targets to shoot at and be shot by. We kill and we die, but we have fun - as one should in a game! And when the blob comes, we engage if we have enough, we blueball them when we don't (like I said above, no one HAS to fight, but it has consequences). And yes, when TEST do come for us, we'll probably lose because of numbers if nothing else - and because ours will probably be the last stable systems, so all those farmers... - but we'll sure have loads and loads of fun fighting to the last ship, 'cause, see? We don't like to "farm noobs in t1 frigs". We like good fights, and there are still lots of people on both sides that provides them.

TL;DR: buff rat tanks, timer rollback to neutral (accelerated rollback with attacker/defender present), gudfights!

Your noob-ness shows. We have been "whining" since day one, that is five years ago not two. Of course to begin with it was considered, accepted and read as feedback to development.

Your points have been countered, weighed, shelved etc. consistently, you just have that very annoying "selective reading/comprehension" attribute that in short order gets you nothing more than shrugs and sighs whenever you open your mouth.
Hint to others: Forum has an excellent 'ignore posts' feature. Accessed by clicking name under portrait to the left.

You are at tier 1, how much are you getting for defensive plexing?
You are at tier 1, how much are you getting for offensive plexing?
You are at tier 2-4, how much are you getting for defensive plexing?
You are at tier 2-4, how much are you getting for offensive plexing?

There truly is no incentive to defend any system other than the HQ's where one has ones stashes. And even those can be ignored if one has neutral logistics capacity to move stuff after the fact.
Why the hell do you think FW is a cycling mass-flip thing, or didn't you notice?
X goes tier 3-4, Y offensive-plexes everything because that only incurs the x0.5 modifier and not the (contested% x 0.75) you get slapped with when 'defending'. When all systems are in the 80-90% contested range (forcing X into low tier3, high tier2) Y brings in the full alt swarm and a handful of Dreads and flip everything in X's weakest timezone.

It is exactly like the craptastic system introduced with LP-for Everything, aka. "Inferno", flip cycle has merely been extended.

Disagree. They care very much, they (null interests) were after all instrumental in convincing CCP to create FarmVille so they could have a secondary revenue stream that is not affected by evil people nicking their null-space .. they even managed to convince CCP to forego pretty much all restrictions on alliances joining just to prove the former accusation/statement.
The Farm was launched after many meetings with CSM even though people actually in FW were screaming their heads off just outside the windows, thinking back it kind of resembles the media images from the G8 summits over the years .. chilling to say the least.