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Star Citizen v EVE

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#721 - 2013-12-01 16:08:05 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:


I don't know. Neither STO or SW:TOR were sand boxes.


Neither is SC.
Captain Tardbar wrote:

Secondly, I didn't call PVP sociopathic.


You did. Scams, awox, ganking. A lot of the greatest events and stories in EVE history fall under what you would call sociopathic gaming.

What you are getting is the Freelancer of 2002 before microsoft bought out digital anvil. Its got as much in common as STO, SW:TOR and Freelancer do with EVE.

I have much more excitement for Space Engineers.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#722 - 2013-12-01 16:29:47 UTC
I have one thing to say for those that are going to quit Eve for SC...

Please contract me your stuff before you biomass your pilot Big smile
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#723 - 2013-12-01 17:45:08 UTC
Trii Seo wrote:
Congratulations on working out how daddy's VISA works then~

With the amount Roberts is trying to do in such a short time, it may end up with barely any depth at all - but we'll have to just observe what happens.

(Also, worth keeping in mind, the last EVE-killer MMO - SWTOR - was also developed by an industry legend. And not a past one, a current one. Take a look at how well that fared.)


Wow, you said three things and got each one wrong. Did you take lessons on being wrong or went to the wrong school too?

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#724 - 2013-12-01 19:10:27 UTC
No, I'm just so wrong I'm right.

Admit it, all Roberts has to show on SC for now is a no-value techdemo, concept art and a bunch of promises. Part of the reason crowdfunding is dangerous - there's no big company to hold him on a leash and tell him "Look, vision and ideas aside get to work and get this released."

A lot of publishers sadly promote anti-consumer practices and generally are really bad, but the truth is that most of the time they're a necessary evil.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#725 - 2013-12-01 20:30:02 UTC
Trii Seo wrote:
No, I'm just so wrong I'm right.

Admit it, all Roberts has to show on SC for now is a no-value techdemo, concept art and a bunch of promises. Part of the reason crowdfunding is dangerous - there's no big company to hold him on a leash and tell him "Look, vision and ideas aside get to work and get this released."

A lot of publishers sadly promote anti-consumer practices and generally are really bad, but the truth is that most of the time they're a necessary evil.


I'll let you learn yourself why you are wrong, both on what CR has to show (FAI, there's a pretty list of... find it yourself), and also on the release schedule of additional stretch goals (everything since a certain stretch goal... find it yourself).

If we compare CIG in the next year versus what CCP has told us about the Hallelujah Plan, it is obvious that the guys selling words and no compromise to deliver are not in Austin, Texas.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#726 - 2013-12-02 01:39:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Alpheias
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Trii Seo wrote:
No, I'm just so wrong I'm right.

Admit it, all Roberts has to show on SC for now is a no-value techdemo, concept art and a bunch of promises. Part of the reason crowdfunding is dangerous - there's no big company to hold him on a leash and tell him "Look, vision and ideas aside get to work and get this released."

A lot of publishers sadly promote anti-consumer practices and generally are really bad, but the truth is that most of the time they're a necessary evil.


I'll let you learn yourself why you are wrong, both on what CR has to show (FAI, there's a pretty list of... find it yourself), and also on the release schedule of additional stretch goals (everything since a certain stretch goal... find it yourself).

If we compare CIG in the next year versus what CCP has told us about the Hallelujah Plan, it is obvious that the guys selling words and no compromise to deliver are not in Austin, Texas.


Ah! But the difference here is that Chris Roberts' words does indeed come with a price tag, literally so.

Of course, selling words is BIG BUSINESS for CIG and they would be fools not to milk the golden cow while they can when they have you and cohorts of like minded like you to thank for being able to have a roof over their heads and food on the table. But hey, at least CIG are not televangelists.. right?

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Varathius
Enlightened Industries
Goonswarm Federation
#727 - 2013-12-02 09:40:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Varathius
You have to see the difference here between:

Eve Online vs Star Citizen OR Eve: Valkyrie vs Star Citizen


Eve Online, will always be a unique game. I do not even know why people compare it to star citizen. The games are so different. So, Eve Online will still be around for some time.


As for Eve Valkyrie vs Star Citizen, I can only laugh. This is probably the BIGGEST mistake, CCP will ever make. Dust was crap, everyone knows that. I really could not care less what Valkyrie becomes, IF, the original Eve Online is not harmed.

In my opinion, I think CCP is not really wise lately. They should focus and dedicate all of their time into Eve Online, instead of going about making failures such as Dust and soon Valkyrie.

Imagine Chris Roberts making a new MMO, Eve style to compete with Eve? He will fail so bad, so why is it so hard to understand this.

CCP needs to wake up and realize they are no Gods, but ordinary people that knew how to make Eve Online prosper to some extent, and it should stay that way.

It just pisses me off when CCP spends too much time on crap Dust, and Valkyrie, while not putting their full attention into this game.

CCP, just forget Valkyrie, keep focusing on this game and on your spare time, have some junior employees work a bit on Dust, so the COD fanboys that are easy grinds in low, don't leave Eve.


P.S. Chris Roberts already has 34 Mio usd, and the way it looks now with the donations, it gets an additional 1 mio dollar every 10-15 days. So you really still want to make Valkyrie?
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#728 - 2013-12-02 10:00:25 UTC
Varathius wrote:
So you really still want to make Valkyrie?
More like, people still want them to make Valkyrie.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Varathius
Enlightened Industries
Goonswarm Federation
#729 - 2013-12-02 10:48:15 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Varathius wrote:
So you really still want to make Valkyrie?
More like, people still want them to make Valkyrie.


Well then I guess those people will need a reality check then.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#730 - 2013-12-02 11:48:30 UTC
Varathius wrote:
Crumplecorn wrote:
Varathius wrote:
So you really still want to make Valkyrie?
More like, people still want them to make Valkyrie.
Well then I guess those people will need a reality check then.
Remains to be seen.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#731 - 2013-12-02 19:42:01 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Hrm... The thought of Star Citizen makes me want to rub my nipples. I am a hater. I hate the EVE community. Sure the Star Citizen community is full of happy saps throwing money at a developer and donating food and other goods to them like no tomorrow. Its somewhat sickening. But its a small price to pay to see everyone in EVE get told "I told you so" when it actually comes out.

I think the problem with EVE is that its primarily filled with sociopaths and people who don't know any better.

The thing is the sociopaths don't do anything of intrinsic value like mine and make things. The prefer to just ruin people's days.

My hope is that the people who don't know any better get tired of the abuse and see Star Citizen's campy lovable community and go there leaving EVE's with just the sociopaths. Unwillingly to mine and build their own ships eventually the game will be ruined for them.

Of course I could be wrong, but I like fantasizing about these things.

All you do is fantasize lol. But for some reason you don't consider the other possibility, the SC is going to be just another game (which, like all games including EVE has to make compromises to be playable) and not some messiah to save you from the game you can't stand.

I think your main problem is a lack of an "introspective reflex". You think it's the community that's bad and it's the game that is "stale" 9the word you used, but you never seem to question your own fitness for/to the game. I've known people like you all my life, disliking what you currently have while believing that the next thing will be better. People like you have been saying EVE is dying for years and have predicted "X" game killing EVE.

So what are you going to do when the shine wears off of Star Citizen, it starts to get "stale" and you realize you can't stand it's community. Who are you going to blame then Tardbar?

Or will you by that time be mature enough to realize that it was always you that was the biggest barrier to your enjoyment, and only you?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#732 - 2013-12-02 19:54:28 UTC
Trii Seo wrote:
No, I'm just so wrong I'm right.

Admit it, all Roberts has to show on SC for now is a no-value techdemo, concept art and a bunch of promises. Part of the reason crowdfunding is dangerous - there's no big company to hold him on a leash and tell him "Look, vision and ideas aside get to work and get this released."

A lot of publishers sadly promote anti-consumer practices and generally are really bad, but the truth is that most of the time they're a necessary evil.

Well done. I really wanted to point this post out because it demonstrates something that the dreamers (not just SC dreamers but dreamers in general) seem to miss:

The fact that reality is dirty. The "necessary evils" exist for a reason, and real life isn't black/white cut and dried. Thier inability to grasp the concept your post demonstrates is why the same types of people say the same things over and over and over again, "X game is coming, ccp better beware".

They also don't understand themselves, which is why the great carebear exodus to Star Trek online (a place to get away from the sociopaths because unlike EVE it actully bans such behavior via rules and game mechanics) fizzled. STO offers EVERYTHING they say they want, no non-consensual pvp, good pve, walking around, "skill based" ship flying, crews, a "light death penalty", no griefing, a "non-sociopathic community" etc etc. So why aren't they there?

it's not the "sandbox", it's the engagement with the "sociopaths", the danger, the depth a truly interactive no holds barred game provides. They went to STO and flopped around like fish out of water. The went to STO loudly and slinked back to EVE quietly lol.

With what we know about SC is how it makes certain types of interactions "consensual", the same thing will happen. The just think they hate EVE, truth is the need EVE and it's harshness to feel connected to a game. It's going to be funny watching them refuse to realize this even after it happens.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#733 - 2013-12-02 20:49:48 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Trii Seo wrote:
No, I'm just so wrong I'm right.

Admit it, all Roberts has to show on SC for now is a no-value techdemo, concept art and a bunch of promises. Part of the reason crowdfunding is dangerous - there's no big company to hold him on a leash and tell him "Look, vision and ideas aside get to work and get this released."

A lot of publishers sadly promote anti-consumer practices and generally are really bad, but the truth is that most of the time they're a necessary evil.

Well done. I really wanted to point this post out because it demonstrates something that the dreamers (not just SC dreamers but dreamers in general) seem to miss:

The fact that reality is dirty. The "necessary evils" exist for a reason, and real life isn't black/white cut and dried. Thier inability to grasp the concept your post demonstrates is why the same types of people say the same things over and over and over again, "X game is coming, ccp better beware".

They also don't understand themselves, which is why the great carebear exodus to Star Trek online (a place to get away from the sociopaths because unlike EVE it actully bans such behavior via rules and game mechanics) fizzled. STO offers EVERYTHING they say they want, no non-consensual pvp, good pve, walking around, "skill based" ship flying, crews, a "light death penalty", no griefing, a "non-sociopathic community" etc etc. So why aren't they there?

it's not the "sandbox", it's the engagement with the "sociopaths", the danger, the depth a truly interactive no holds barred game provides. They went to STO and flopped around like fish out of water. The went to STO loudly and slinked back to EVE quietly lol.

With what we know about SC is how it makes certain types of interactions "consensual", the same thing will happen. The just think they hate EVE, truth is the need EVE and it's harshness to feel connected to a game. It's going to be funny watching them refuse to realize this even after it happens.


Can I have your phone number? Provided how's the budget around here, soon you may be the only kind of psychologist our public health system can afford...

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#734 - 2013-12-02 22:22:59 UTC
Well, there's not much to add here. EVE has the best space scoundrels ever - not mustache-twirling incompetent space villains you get to kill every weekend. Actual cunning bastards out for your ISK.

Now if only its good guys could stop being entitled to winning because of their natural ~hounour superiority~ ("good guys" always wins, am I right?) and grabbed guns - things could get even more interesting.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#735 - 2013-12-03 08:06:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Alpheias
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

Can I have your phone number?


Like you couldn't get any creepier with your hardon for "avatar gameplay"...

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#736 - 2013-12-03 09:50:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
Trii Seo wrote:
No, I'm just so wrong I'm right.

Admit it, all Roberts has to show on SC for now is a no-value techdemo, concept art and a bunch of promises. Part of the reason crowdfunding is dangerous - there's no big company to hold him on a leash and tell him "Look, vision and ideas aside get to work and get this released."

A lot of publishers sadly promote anti-consumer practices and generally are really bad, but the truth is that most of the time they're a necessary evil.


Yep that's crowd funding for ya and it works exactly the same as other crowd funding u have a demo, idea and past deeds to show for and you are asking to back it up(same as you are trying to sell it to big companies is it?)considering that 90% and up of big companies backed games are uter garbage il survive one crowd funding and any disappointment it can bring with it.

just yesterday i wasted 50$ money on game that is garbage because of "necessary evil"

hi asked, hi was given, dates are set many ppl turn out to be willing to invest tiny amount of $ ...do you or me are fine with it or not trust it or not is irrelevant,that's how crowd funding works take it or leave it.

For me SC is next gen space game with $ pool of an AAA title and no string attached ,i have no hostility towards it anyone who isn't biased shouldn't.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#737 - 2013-12-03 10:54:36 UTC
Well lot of major titles are ****, occasionally riddled with microtransactions. There's a lot of treadmilling, devs recognize grind as a good thing. In the end though people still buy it so publishers get the cash. Kind of our own fault things look bad.

The issue I suppose is that botching up a release for a publisher ends with financial loss or a lawsuit. Crowfunding pays up front, especially in this case where it pays for the entire game. Quality or ratings don't matter so you can screw up.

Having played scifi "pilot" games in the past I'm all for the return of the genre. Paying blind upfront though is as wise as giving ISK to a doubler because he has a referral from TheMittani.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#738 - 2013-12-03 13:54:13 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

Can I have your phone number?


Like you couldn't get any creepier with your hardon for "avatar gameplay"...


So now you can cherrypick a sentence from a post with two sentences... are you learning a new skill? Lol

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#739 - 2013-12-03 16:33:07 UTC
Trii Seo wrote:
Well lot of major titles are ****, occasionally riddled with microtransactions. There's a lot of treadmilling, devs recognize grind as a good thing. In the end though people still buy it so publishers get the cash. Kind of our own fault things look bad.

The issue I suppose is that botching up a release for a publisher ends with financial loss or a lawsuit. Crowfunding pays up front, especially in this case where it pays for the entire game. Quality or ratings don't matter so you can screw up.

Having played scifi "pilot" games in the past I'm all for the return of the genre. Paying blind upfront though is as wise as giving ISK to a doubler because he has a referral from TheMittani.



I didn't pay blind. I sat on it for over a year.

I remember following the original kickstarter, and not giving anything because I wanted to see what would pan out.

When the first cinematic was released, I again held out because a flashy Youtube video means nothing to me.

When the hanger was released and I saw the engine in use, I began to follow it more closely. I began to watch videos of the hangars. I would watch the WMH podcasts. I went over back issues of JP to follow the development.

I read CR's AMAs on reddit, and interviews.

I decided to fork over an extra $40 for the Alpha/Beta access to do two things:

1) I miss FS2. I miss using my joystick to control a ship in space.
2) If there was a serious undertaking to bring that back, I would support it.


Granted, I think funneling thousands into the project is risky, but so are other investments. And yes, these ARE investments. These people are investing in personal satisfaction and having fun. It's their money and really none of anyone's business how they spend it.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#740 - 2013-12-03 16:37:41 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

Can I have your phone number?


Like you couldn't get any creepier with your hardon for "avatar gameplay"...


So now you can cherrypick a sentence from a post with two sentences... are you learning a new skill? Lol


I am. And I am learning it from you.

Perhaps I can teach you to make coherent arguments next?

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.