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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

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Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#7801 - 2013-11-21 14:33:41 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
I'm divided on the changes. On the one hand I really like that finally a battleship has a tank that is superior to everything else in game subcap. On the other I can tank a Blood Raider 10/10 without hardners and be cap stable. Seems slightly OP. But also its a battleship.

I'd like to see this on normal battleships but without the EW immunity and perhaps half the tankability of the Marauder.


:-) since you can build a dual-rep, triple remote rep, cap stable paladin which (with fleet boosts) tanks 9000dps with plenty of cap to spare, (+100 Gj/s) while being totally immune to ECM, I'd say marauders were totally OP - by a wide margin.

This triage marauder tanks as much as a... *dreadnaught in siege mode* while delivering 700dps, repairing its buddies and shrugging off a 12-man cruiser fleet.

This would be reasonable for a carrier, not a battleship. Bastion is just ridiculous.

As I said before, I'll abuse it while I can, but it needs to be removed from the game.


I don't see why being able to build a battleship, let me say that again - battleship - with an awesome tank, that can't be shut down by a ECM mod and made pointless, while doing ok but not OP dps, nowhere near that of a regular battleship with that sort of tank, is bad.

Why should battles be over in a few seconds, or a minute, that's a small ship mentality, these are battleships. They're supposed to do battle. Marauders are finally in the right spot on the field imo, I only hope that CCP follows up and allows bastion or some version on other battleships so they can be useful as well.



Mmm nerf t1 bastion to 50% more repair, allow it for any large hull . Make a t2 one that only marauders can use with 80% repair and 15% damage bonus? :)))))

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#7802 - 2013-11-21 14:45:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
mm.... i was amazed at how much a dual ASB vargur could tank .... maybe the bastion module should be nerfed a bit .... and add a T2 version that requires more skills and is about 80% of the current bastion module... although i found it hard to get the kronos to tank as much it kind of shows the disparency between ASB' and armour reps/AAR

Also i thought the bastion module didn't allow for fleet links to work on it am i wrong??

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#7803 - 2013-11-21 15:03:28 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
mm.... i was amazed at how much a dual ASB vargur could tank .... maybe the bastion module should be nerfed a bit .... and add a T2 version that requires more skills and is about 80% of the current bastion module... although i found it hard to get the kronos to tank as much it kind of shows the disparency between ASB' and armour reps/AAR

Also i thought the bastion module didn't allow for fleet links to work on it am i wrong??



ASB are very limited time wise. For the typical engagement scenario of a marauder they are not the best choice. So not overpowered.

Bastion module is too extreme on one side and too weak on other. I need less defensive power and more offensive power. Add a 25% tracking and change the falloff bonus to 50% then reduec the repair ammount to somethign like 60-70%

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7804 - 2013-11-21 15:30:40 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
mm.... i was amazed at how much a dual ASB vargur could tank .... maybe the bastion module should be nerfed a bit .... and add a T2 version that requires more skills and is about 80% of the current bastion module... although i found it hard to get the kronos to tank as much it kind of shows the disparency between ASB' and armour reps/AAR

Also i thought the bastion module didn't allow for fleet links to work on it am i wrong??



ASB are very limited time wise. For the typical engagement scenario of a marauder they are not the best choice. So not overpowered.

Bastion module is too extreme on one side and too weak on other. I need less defensive power and more offensive power. Add a 25% tracking and change the falloff bonus to 50% then reduec the repair ammount to somethign like 60-70%


This is factually incorrect.

I't very easy to fit a golem with dual ASB. You alternate the pulses of ASB and time them so that one is depleting while the other is reloading.

This way you achieve 63.75% of the headline tank figure for 1 ASB in EFT or Eve HQ. It's possible to run the ASBs overheated for the entire fight because only one at a time is being used.

While perms-tanking this monstrous dps, the golem is able to push out over 1000dps and field a target painter.

Bastion is a mistake. Allowing dual ASB breaks the game, which is a shame since CCP almost fixed it with the previous 2 patches.

I'll post a fit + stats in the next post

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7805 - 2013-11-21 15:35:00 UTC
[Golem, WH bait]
4x Torpedo Launcher II (Scourge Rage Torpedo)
Bastion Module I
2x Small Tractor Beam II
Salvager II

2x X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster (Navy Cap Booster 400)
2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
100MN Afterburner II
Target Painter II

Co-Processor II
2x Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Large Processor Overclocking Unit II

5x Hobgoblin II

[Statistics - Overheated, both reppers]
Effective HP: 139,870 (Eve: 126,022)
Tank Ability: 10,663 DPS
Shield Resists - EM: 88.42%, Ex: 86.28%, Ki: 85.59%, Th: 86.82%
Capacitor (Stable at 64%)
Volley Damage: 8,392.19
DPS: 1,090.64

[Statistics - unheated, alternating shield boosters]
Effective HP: 124,141 (Eve: 113,600)
Tank Ability: 3396 DPS
Shield Resists - EM: 82.80%, Ex: 83.86%, Ki: 83.05%, Th: 85.09%
Capacitor (Stable at 64.46%)
Volley Damage: 8,392.19
DPS: 1,090.64

===============================================================================
Sufficient cargo for 13 shield booster reloads
So assuming you always overheat the active repper and don't overheat the invulnerability fields...
cycle time = 4.5s, 9 cycles per reload (60s) so max continuous pulse is 63.75% of max rep...
= 2956dps truly continuous tank (no long breaks for reload)
EHP = 2956 (dps tank per second) * 13 (reloads) * 60 (seconds per reload cycle) + 124141 (base ehp)
2,429,821
===============================================================================

Given the situation where the ship is ganked by 7 players with 800dps each, perfectly applied (a big ask), the ship can overheat the resists for:
continuous shield repair: 5387 x 63.75% = 3434.21 dps
effective dps = 5600 - 3443.21 = 2165.79
time to live = 139870 / 2165.79 = 64.5 seconds = 1min 5s.

Note that this is without fleet boosts, drugs or implants.
With fleet boosts (jump through a WH when the ship gets jumped), drugs and crystals the continuous tank (overheating no resists, only the active shield booster) rises to 6612, out-tanking the hypthetical gank fleet until the boosters run out - which will take:
time to live = 2429821 (ehp) / 5600 (incoming dps) = 433s = 7m 13s
In this time, the golem will have contributed 472,000 ehp of damage to the enemy fleet, so assuming there is a bubble, they will have lost 3 T3 ships to the golem alone.

Of course while the counter-gank is going on, the golem can be salvaging the wrecks of sleepers and the enemy fleet.

Summary:
I think we've just found a job for the golem :-)

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#7806 - 2013-11-21 16:13:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
mm.... i was amazed at how much a dual ASB vargur could tank .... maybe the bastion module should be nerfed a bit .... and add a T2 version that requires more skills and is about 80% of the current bastion module... although i found it hard to get the kronos to tank as much it kind of shows the disparency between ASB' and armour reps/AAR

Also i thought the bastion module didn't allow for fleet links to work on it am i wrong??



ASB are very limited time wise. For the typical engagement scenario of a marauder they are not the best choice. So not overpowered.

Bastion module is too extreme on one side and too weak on other. I need less defensive power and more offensive power. Add a 25% tracking and change the falloff bonus to 50% then reduec the repair ammount to somethign like 60-70%


This is factually incorrect.

I't very easy to fit a golem with dual ASB. You alternate the pulses of ASB and time them so that one is depleting while the other is reloading.

This way you achieve 63.75% of the headline tank figure for 1 ASB in EFT or Eve HQ. It's possible to run the ASBs overheated for the entire fight because only one at a time is being used.

While perms-tanking this monstrous dps, the golem is able to push out over 1000dps and field a target painter.

Bastion is a mistake. Allowing dual ASB breaks the game, which is a shame since CCP almost fixed it with the previous 2 patches.

I'll post a fit + stats in the next post


When an ASB had enough charges for a full minute.. yes.. sicne they were nerfed you wil lget a few secodns with no repair between them. That is when you get vulnerable.... not that is a large time. Just pointing the thing is not so invulnearable.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7807 - 2013-11-21 16:37:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Mournful Conciousness
Kagura Nikon wrote:

When an ASB had enough charges for a full minute.. yes.. sicne they were nerfed you wil lget a few secodns with no repair between them. That is when you get vulnerable.... not that is a large time. Just pointing the thing is not so invulnearable.


You misunderstood me. The ASB is to be pulsed, with a time gap between each pulse. Thus the one that is reloading is ready by the time you have exhausted the active one. That is why I reduce the tank number to 63% of the headline - to compensate for this pulsing.

You need to leave 2 seconds between each cycle. The ASB cycle time is 4.5 seconds. There are 9 charges. 60/9 = ~6.5.

This way there is *no* delay between reloads.

It really does have 2.5m ehp against any fleet that cannot out-dps it. This is more than a T2 fitted dreadnought.

You can even make the fit neut-proof at the expense of some tank by fitting passive hardeners, or drop some DPS and increase the neut-proof tank to an astonishing 10,000 continuous dps.

Like I said, totally OP, and I will be totally abusing it util they nerf it.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#7808 - 2013-11-21 16:41:26 UTC
Golem - Dory

High -
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Bastion Mode I
Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I
Salvager II
Small Tractor Beam II

Medium -
Pith C-Type Large Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Amplifier II
Target Painter II
Target Painter II

Low -
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Rig -
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II

Drones -
x5 Hobgoblin II
x5 Warrior II
x5 Salvage Drone I

Cargo -
x12800 Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Mobile Tractor Unit

1001 DPS
Able to hit anything within 118km
Will usually pop cruisers and frigates in one shot
Over 8mins of cap time
Mobile tractor unit for those long to reach wrecks
Tank is 900 plus every 3.2secs
Anything not T2 is because it is Meta 4 and does better then it's T2 brother, or because the bastion only has a I one version.
Fit cost is way under 1.5bil
Vinyl 41
AdVictis
#7809 - 2013-11-21 16:48:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Vinyl 41
another smartas that uses 2 invus + bastion ( its a stacking penalized invu guys )
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7810 - 2013-11-21 17:01:49 UTC
Vinyl 41 wrote:
another smartas that uses 2 invus + bastion ( its a stacking penalized invu guys )


Stacking penalty or not, it still gives better results than specific resists.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Mason Drake
SGK Inc
#7811 - 2013-11-21 17:19:25 UTC
This post will probably just get a ton of flames/hate from the 1337 PvPers and others, because it breaks the fantasy MMO crowd control combat methodology of internet spaceship combat. Luckily, I stopped giving a **** what self-proclaimed 1337 people think of me when I got past nursery school. So . . .

maraud
verb
1.
to roam or go around in quest of plunder; make a raid for booty
verb
2.
to raid for plunder

Marauder
noun
the act of marauding.

The new Bastion system makes my Marauder feel like it is not a Marauder. It feels like I am in a semi-mobile turret or artillery piece, when I play it now. The Bastion is an a$$-backwards approach to re-balancing the class.

Okay, so you want the ship to "project damage"? How about making a Marauder system that allows it to put the ship in the middle of the furball and keep it there, instead of sitting itself in one place, Create a system that basically make the ship immune to webs and increases its defenses at the cost of weapon range. Then the ship can get in the target's face and project its damage point blank, instead of sitting like Maginot line turret in space. The ship is a Marauder after all, so let it roam the battlefield in quest of kills.

I'm not really thrilled with E-War immunity, but since ECM is such an issue with the frigate strength sensors that Marauders have, either increase their sensor strength to a reasonable level or give the ship some kind of make the system have partial E-War immunity. Total E-War immunity just really feels like overkill.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7812 - 2013-11-21 18:00:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Mournful Conciousness wrote:

.
Snip
.

Given the situation where the ship is ganked by 7 players with 800dps each, perfectly applied (a big ask), the ship can overheat the resists for:
continuous shield repair: 5387 x 63.75% = 3434.21 dps
effective dps = 5600 - 3443.21 = 2165.79
time to live = 139870 / 2165.79 = 64.5 seconds = 1min 5s.

Note that this is without fleet boosts, drugs or implants.
With fleet boosts (jump through a WH when the ship gets jumped), drugs and crystals the continuous tank (overheating no resists, only the active shield booster) rises to 6612, out-tanking the hypthetical gank fleet until the boosters run out - which will take:
time to live = 2429821 (ehp) / 5600 (incoming dps) = 433s = 7m 13s
In this time, the golem will have contributed 472,000 ehp of damage to the enemy fleet, so assuming there is a bubble, they will have lost 3 T3 ships to the golem alone.

Of course while the counter-gank is going on, the golem can be salvaging the wrecks of sleepers and the enemy fleet.

Summary:
I think we've just found a job for the golem :-)

Its a battleship, its supposed to take out cruisers. T3's cruisers have been the OP pimpmobile for a while now, taking out battleships with impunity (have killed battleships in a Proteus without scratching my shields in an armor tanked boat).

Guess they now have something to worry about.

There's also nothing to stop you bring your own mini-dreads along to fight. And its bit disingenuous to say that the marauder has applied that much damage to T3's using torps.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#7813 - 2013-11-21 18:34:42 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Like I said, totally OP, and I will be totally abusing it util they nerf it.

I believe it was CCP Rise who asked for precisely this kind of proof that something in game is imbalanced.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7814 - 2013-11-21 18:36:26 UTC

Infinity Ziona wrote:

... snip...
Its a battleship, its supposed to take out cruisers. T3's cruisers have been the OP pimpmobile for a while now, taking out battleships with impunity (have killed battleships in a Proteus without scratching my shields in an armor tanked boat).

Guess they now have something to worry about.

There's also nothing to stop you bring your own mini-dreads along to fight. And its bit disingenuous to say that the marauder has applied that much damage to T3's using torps.


But i think you're splitting hairs and deliberately missing the point. This fit is a bait fit that not only makes money, it's going to be the last thing left on the field in any gank/countergank situation.

Of course when counter-ganking, you'll bring webs (usually a loki) along with all the other dps and ewar. The marauder, along with the target painter will do pretty close to perfect damage through the encounter.

It will also be the last thing the opposing fleet engage, since it makes sense to kill the soft targets first to reduce incoming ordnance.

OK, you can bring you own golem, and we can bring 2 golems... until we have a golemfest, but this will not make for good or fun pvp - it's just a game of 'who can bring the most armoured turrets?'

The escape-ability of the marauders is a good thing, but the unkillability of them is daft. I am fairly sure Ytterbium did not think through the implications, and certainly did not intend to create 40,000dps tank monsters (actually 60,000 if you use PITH A-type gear and overheat it...)

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7815 - 2013-11-21 18:40:27 UTC
hmskrecik wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Like I said, totally OP, and I will be totally abusing it util they nerf it.

I believe it was CCP Rise who asked for precisely this kind of proof that something in game is imbalanced.


This kind of imbalance was plain to see from the beginning of the 'design' phase. It was addressed on about page 20 of this thread, and thoroughly ignored by the dev team. Some simple mathematics uncovered it.

I can only assume they were more concerned about meeting production deadlines than game quality targets.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#7816 - 2013-11-21 19:20:06 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:

When an ASB had enough charges for a full minute.. yes.. sicne they were nerfed you wil lget a few secodns with no repair between them. That is when you get vulnerable.... not that is a large time. Just pointing the thing is not so invulnearable.


You misunderstood me. The ASB is to be pulsed, with a time gap between each pulse. Thus the one that is reloading is ready by the time you have exhausted the active one. That is why I reduce the tank number to 63% of the headline - to compensate for this pulsing.

You need to leave 2 seconds between each cycle. The ASB cycle time is 4.5 seconds. There are 9 charges. 60/9 = ~6.5.

This way there is *no* delay between reloads.

It really does have 2.5m ehp against any fleet that cannot out-dps it. This is more than a T2 fitted dreadnought.

You can even make the fit neut-proof at the expense of some tank by fitting passive hardeners, or drop some DPS and increase the neut-proof tank to an astonishing 10,000 continuous dps.

Like I said, totally OP, and I will be totally abusing it util they nerf it.



Ok, I see what you mean. But at least the player must do several clicks and not be drunk for it to work :) that is far more than most overpowered ships difficulties: P

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7817 - 2013-11-21 20:00:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Mournful Conciousness wrote:

Infinity Ziona wrote:

... snip...
Its a battleship, its supposed to take out cruisers. T3's cruisers have been the OP pimpmobile for a while now, taking out battleships with impunity (have killed battleships in a Proteus without scratching my shields in an armor tanked boat).

Guess they now have something to worry about.

There's also nothing to stop you bring your own mini-dreads along to fight. And its bit disingenuous to say that the marauder has applied that much damage to T3's using torps.


But i think you're splitting hairs and deliberately missing the point. This fit is a bait fit that not only makes money, it's going to be the last thing left on the field in any gank/countergank situation.

Of course when counter-ganking, you'll bring webs (usually a loki) along with all the other dps and ewar. The marauder, along with the target painter will do pretty close to perfect damage through the encounter.

It will also be the last thing the opposing fleet engage, since it makes sense to kill the soft targets first to reduce incoming ordnance.

OK, you can bring you own golem, and we can bring 2 golems... until we have a golemfest, but this will not make for good or fun pvp - it's just a game of 'who can bring the most armoured turrets?'

The escape-ability of the marauders is a good thing, but the unkillability of them is daft. I am fairly sure Ytterbium did not think through the implications, and certainly did not intend to create 40,000dps tank monsters (actually 60,000 if you use PITH A-type gear and overheat it...)


I think you're exaggerating that a little.

[Golem, Crazy Expensive Tank]
Damage Control II

[empty med slot]
Estamel's Modified Shield Boost Amplifier
Estamel's Modified Shield Boost Amplifier
Estamel's Modified Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Estamel's Modified Adaptive Invulnerability Field
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 400
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 400

Bastion Module I

Large Core Defense Operational Solidifier II
Large Core Defense Operational Solidifier II

This gets max 64k dps with both boosters overheated, but its rediculously expensive and impractical, its linked to an all 5 skilled Nighthawk alt with Caldari Navy mindlink, Harmonizing II, Active Tanking II, and has a full set of high grade crystals plugged in.

I could also do this unrealistic fit:

[Rattlesnake, 43K DPS Tank]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Estamel's Modified Co-Processor
Damage Control II

Estamel's Modified Shield Boost Amplifier
Estamel's Modified Shield Boost Amplifier
Estamel's Modified Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Estamel's Modified Adaptive Invulnerability Field
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 400
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 400
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 400


Large Core Defense Operational Solidifier II
Large Core Defense Operational Solidifier I
Large Core Defense Operational Solidifier I

This has been possible for a long time, 43k per second tank, 900 dps drone damage. But no one is wtf pwning anyone with them because they're unrealistic.

If you overheat your invuls on the marauder you get close to 100k dps, on the Rattler, 64k.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7818 - 2013-11-21 20:13:56 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

...snip...
If you overheat your invuls on the marauder you get close to 100k dps, on the Rattler, 64k.


You wouldn't want solidifiers - you'll want cargo expanders so you can carry more cap boosters - this gives you more effective hitpoints over the course of a fight.

The fits you have posted are extreme, you're right. Use of crystals and a booster is by no means unusual, and ridiculous (i.e. as much as a dread) tanks are very possible with T2 modules only.

Are you seriously arguing that this is desirable?

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#7819 - 2013-11-21 20:27:52 UTC  |  Edited by: hmskrecik
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
hmskrecik wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Like I said, totally OP, and I will be totally abusing it util they nerf it.

I believe it was CCP Rise who asked for precisely this kind of proof that something in game is imbalanced.


This kind of imbalance was plain to see from the beginning of the 'design' phase. It was addressed on about page 20 of this thread, and thoroughly ignored by the dev team. Some simple mathematics uncovered it.

I can only assume they were more concerned about meeting production deadlines than game quality targets.

Sorta, kinda. They have taken this into account and proposed v 2.0 and then reverted. The fact that ship can tank like hell does not yet mean that game is broken. The ship still is immobile and can ubertank for only so long. I don't remember where it's stated that ability to alpha any given ship is sine qua non for proper game balance.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7820 - 2013-11-21 20:59:56 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

...snip...
If you overheat your invuls on the marauder you get close to 100k dps, on the Rattler, 64k.


You wouldn't want solidifiers - you'll want cargo expanders so you can carry more cap boosters - this gives you more effective hitpoints over the course of a fight.

The fits you have posted are extreme, you're right. Use of crystals and a booster is by no means unusual, and ridiculous (i.e. as much as a dread) tanks are very possible with T2 modules only.

Are you seriously arguing that this is desirable?

What I'm saying is they're not as OP as you're making out. If we T2 fit the golem and the rattler, with the same boosts and links we get 22k Rattler, 27k Golem. Golem is unable to be RR'd and is immobile while the Rattler can receive RR and is mobile.

The Rattler needs an extra ASB and an extra boost amp but given the RR and the mobility there's not a lot of difference in baitability or killability.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)