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[Rubicon] Entry-level combat exploration for Low Sec

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Burseg Sardaukar
Free State Project
#41 - 2013-11-01 18:08:34 UTC
RETURN OF DRUG OUTLET TO SEYLLIN? Hell yes!

Can't wait to dual box my Dust toon and EVE toon on the same machine!
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2013-11-01 18:33:54 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
This content will exist alongside the existing lowsec stuff. The new sites will not replace any existing lowsec content or reduce the spawn rate of any existing sites. They will be in addition to the existing spawns.

cool bananas
Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
#43 - 2013-11-01 19:57:30 UTC
Looks good. I like seeing things that attract more people into different areas.

Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. Hunter S. Thompson
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#44 - 2013-11-01 21:19:13 UTC
You know this would be really neat if there were places these things always spawned so you don't have to gimp your fits for scanning when you're on a trip through low sec. They could work on random respawn timers so they couldn't be perma-camped. We could call them something like beacons or ...wait....static plexes.

You may as well call them SoE killboxes in the exploration system especially if the gate key system didn't get fixed.
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
#45 - 2013-11-01 22:02:14 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Also the key that most of the sites require should either be removed entirely, or permanently unlock the gate once used.



Yes, it really has to be removed. Doesn´t add to pvp if you can sit in a locked off DED pocket and you have the only key. Also makes them way too farmable since you don´t despawn the site unless there is good loot and only you know the respawntimeing of the gatekey.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#46 - 2013-11-01 22:30:17 UTC
Excellent

The Tears Must Flow
Turelus
Utassi Security
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#47 - 2013-11-02 00:43:17 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Also the key that most of the sites require should either be removed entirely, or permanently unlock the gate once used.

This please. There is nothing worse than scanning down a 1/10 or 2/10 to find someone has completed the first room died in the second and then the site is stuck for days until it despawns.

Turelus CEO Utassi Security
Zircon Dasher
#48 - 2013-11-02 02:49:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Zircon Dasher
I would like to +1:

Turning DED sites into anoms. I too hate gimped fits, constrained ship choices, or having to bring my probe alt when I go places. Its just seems like such a HASSLE since becoming accustomed to FW beacons.

Nerf Killboxes. The statics were killboxes, and that made me sad.

Get rid of locked gates. People who go around collecting keys are inhibiting my rights to phat loot.

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Kujun Nashja
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2013-11-02 09:28:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Kujun Nashja
CCP Fozzie wrote:
To answer the question about the removal of the static sites, we have no plans to reintroduce any static sites with loot worth farming. Using the exploration system spreads out the sites and prevents easy farming.

The issue from before wasn't the 1/10 and 2/10 plexes being in lowsec, it was them being static. That's why we're bringing the non-static spawns to lowsec now without compunction.


The plexes being static was not the issue. The layout and gate mechanics were. This is what supported some people farming them (a very minor problem i might add considering the positive aspects these plexes had). A rework of these mechanics would have been the attention this content deserved, seeing how they were the sole conflict driver for entire constellations which are basically dead these days.

More often then not you would find people fighting in local or the neighboring systems, not caring for that poor newb in his Rifter who actually did the plex for loot. Yes, they had issues and downsides. Issues which could have been fixed for the benefit of everyone with a little attention to the actual content. Removal was not the answer. It still isn´t today.

That being said though, the reintroduction of 1/10s and 2/10s to lowsec is a good thing. I doubt it will have a huge impact on the current state of lowsec though. Prices for the coresponding loot will fall by 20% percent and that will be it.
Mnemosyne Gloob
#50 - 2013-11-03 02:47:27 UTC
Interesting and a good plan. Maybe think about moving 4/10 to lowsec entirely, too.

Also you mentioned that there was 'no new player friendly content' in lowsec exploration. As someone who started doing exploration right from birth i have to somehow disagree. Before oddisey an enterprising beginner explorer (would only need a t 1 cruiser mostly) could do radars/mags in lowsec and have a very good income for a newbie. With the oddissey expansion this activity can now be done by extreme newbies in t1 frigates and for a while it was quite profitable. The crashing market prices of especially decryptors, but also T2 salvage, have however turned these sites (at least in lowsec) into 'mostly not worth it' imo. You made it too easy.
Nam Dnilb
Universal Frog
#51 - 2013-11-03 18:31:13 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
This content will exist alongside the existing lowsec stuff. The new sites will not replace any existing lowsec content or reduce the spawn rate of any existing sites. They will be in addition to the existing spawns.


I am trying to test a Stratios and am finding 95% ex-high sec sites in low sec, just saying. Shocked

Also overview is not loading every couple of systems, I bug reported that one.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2013-11-03 20:38:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyancat Audeles
Meanwhile, nullsec remains the least profitable - especially for players who don't join a big bloc sov nullsec cartel. Way to go, CCP! Because who needs risk vs reward?

FFS do we really even need nullsec anymore? You have more sites in low, more spawns in low, don't lose your ship as often, find more fights, and don't get podded all the time.

Are you trying to kill nullsec? What advantage do we have to stay in nullsec - besides "sov" or "moons"? Tell me, CCP, why would a lowsec player EVER care to venture into nullsec?
Calypso Warsmith
Strata Dynamics
Power Absolute Inc.
#53 - 2013-11-04 03:34:02 UTC
Can we move this along to Null sec as well?


It would be a nice bump to supporting are new bros out here, and be a minor buff to null sec.


Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#54 - 2013-11-04 14:27:51 UTC
Calypso Warsmith wrote:
Can we move this along to Null sec as well?


It would be a nice bump to supporting are new bros out here, and be a minor buff to null sec.





A dim bulb begins to brighten in Fozzie's head...

...but :METRICS: say they must wait 5 more years then reintroduce all plexes in static locations throughout null and low as the new feature.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#55 - 2013-11-04 14:47:42 UTC
What will be the base scanning difficulty of the signatures in lowsec? Using the old DSPs there were understood to be discreet signal strengths, with the most difficult sigs for that area of space being hardest to scan. A 6/10 in lowsec would be difficult to scan and a 6/10 in nullsec would be easy to scan.


lowsec sigs into null please :-D, at least if it doesn't reduce the occurrence of existing nullsec explo content.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Maximillian Bonaparte
Interstellar Booty Hunters
#56 - 2013-11-07 15:08:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximillian Bonaparte
WAIT!!!!!!!
STOP!!!!

Lets think about this before getting carried away please, just stop and THINK.

First, good for CCP to attempt to liven up lowsec. It's been overdue for some new content, except WAIT this isnt new content.

As said previously in the thread, modules from ded 1/10 through 4/10 values WILL DROP, just like when rats were removed from data and relic sites the value of those items dropped so that in most cases profession sites are not worth doing in lowsec or highsec.

This causes two problems - the isk income potential in highsec will be dropped - AND it will flood lowsec with sites that the experienced lowsec explorers will now have to cherry pick or filter to avoid the ones we dont want.
This will make profitable exploration harder in lwosec, and less valuable in highsec.

If its not broke, dont fix it. If you want to fix lowsec explo, then put the damn rats back into prof sites and increase the value of those so that new 'pirates' can run them instead.

Interstellar Booty Hunters - Pirate Small Gang PvP Forever!
Maximillian Bonaparte
Interstellar Booty Hunters
#57 - 2013-11-07 15:15:44 UTC
Nam Dnilb wrote:
[quote=CCP Fozzie]
I am trying to test a Stratios and am finding 95% ex-high sec sites in low sec, just saying. Shocked

.


This is MOST disturbing....MOST disturbing.

Interstellar Booty Hunters - Pirate Small Gang PvP Forever!
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#58 - 2013-11-08 09:42:50 UTC
Chigurh Friendo wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
many players both new and old will be interested in the loot gained from the 1/10 and 2/10 level signatures.


Wait! Wait! Wait! --- You're shitting me right?!

Aren't you afraid that some "small group of experienced players" is going to "farm the content"?
(See reference for full quote)
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2424637#post2424637

I sincerely hope that the reintroduction of the 1/10s and 2/10s doesn't coincide with the reintroduction of static plexes... not just because such sites lead to stop-watch farming, AFK farming, and bots abuses... but also because CCP would otherwise be directly and entirely re-negging on their formerly stated agenda.

That is, we would have CCP's Remarkable Methodology for Developing New Expansion Content to Keep the Game Fresh(TM) defined as:
Step 1: Remove existing content that was supported by a vibrant emergent PvP battleground community.
Step 2: Fail to address concerns of community members in any capacity. (you know, the people who actually play the ******* game?)
Step 3: Provide no substitute in its place.
Step 4: Reintroduce formerly removed content and rebrand said content as a new 'Feature' for an upcoming expansion.
Step 5: Bask in the warm glowing praise of the fickle amnesiac playerbase.

It didn't take a crystal ball to see that removing 2/10s from lowsec (as an afterthought!!!) and providing no meaningful substitute was a really horrible idea...

The best part about these changes is how they will be re-sold to the community after their re-introduction:

"We decided that having lowsec PvE content that would not only provide income to lowsec residents but also that would inspire PvP would be a good thing for the health of the game. Further, since Rubicon's launch we've been following the metrics and can see that based on this myopically short-term adoption curve (See Figure A: Short-sighted user uptake perspective) that our players are just eating this **** up. This adoption curve is undisputed proof that our players are just loving it. Bravo us."

...followed by post-Rubicon-launch CCP internal discussions along the lines of:

CCP Metrics'R'Us: "Boy, would you just LOOK at these metrics!?"
CCP Watercooler: "Yeah, get a load of all these people fighting over and completing lowsec 2/10s!"
CCP Metrics'R'Us: "Yeah, I never would have guessed that anyone would live in, let alone give two craps about lowsec! We sure as hell don't!"
CCP Watercooler: "Tell me about it... Say, let's go do something worthwhile like watching the immersive gate-jump animation one more time!"
CCP Metrics'R'Us: "Sounds good to me!"
[[Swwwwwoooossh!!!]]
CCP Watercooler: "Ooooooh!"
CCP Metrics'R'Us: "Ahhhhh!"
CCP Watercooler: "This sure beats a loading bar!"
CCP Metrics'R'US: "You're telling me! Also, given the extent of adoption, we can see that our players are really loving this new gate jumping animation!"

Taking a step back, though. We can see that this change really is revolutionary. It's a veritable crossing of the Rubicon... embarking on bold new territory. One... small step... for man. One giant leap... for mankind. A real game-changer.

---

Sarcasm aside, I believe that the (re)introduction of such PvE content in lowsec will be of benefit to the health of the game, even if it has taken its removal and reintroduction to get there. Better late than never I guess. On the other hand, I think I'll reserve my :slow clap: for more deserving 'Features' when they come.

you beat me to it!!
+1 internet to you
Angelus Ryan
One Ronin
#59 - 2013-11-08 14:34:20 UTC
Maximillian Bonaparte wrote:

the isk income potential in highsec will be dropped


That is actually a good thing because these modules will drop in price. Their old price (AB/MWD mods at 10-15mil range) was a good price. Their current prices levels make them pretty much unusable because they are too expensive for the benefit, which is bad game design. One way or another, the drop rate needs to be increased, which inevitably will drop prices.

Maximillian Bonaparte wrote:

AND it will flood lowsec with sites that the experienced lowsec explorers will now have to cherry pick or filter to avoid the ones we dont want. This will make profitable exploration harder in lwosec, and less valuable in highsec.


And? Lowsec exploration done right is pretty much risk-free isk-printing (albeit via an unreliable printer). There are no bubbles, most systems are deserted and most sites can be easily run in relatively cheap ships and pretty quickly. If it takes you another 5 minutes per system to filter out the sites you don't want, that is a reasonable trade off to provide additional income to people who aren't flying ArtyBals (and soon Stratios crusiers) to run sites.

Maximillian Bonaparte wrote:

If its not broke (frig module prices, see above), dont fix it.


It was broken. It is now getting fixed.

Maximillian Bonaparte wrote:

If you want to fix lowsec explo


I hope they want to fix lowsec in general, not just lowsec explo. This is a step in the right direction, but the new sites need to be anomalies, not sigs and they need to have no keys of any sort (all recommendations done by others before me, and which I heartily endorse). That will solve both the wish for non-FW PvP beacons of value and your concern of having to filter out sigs.
Angelus Ryan
One Ronin
#60 - 2013-11-08 14:35:48 UTC
Calypso Warsmith wrote:
Can we move this along to Null sec as well?


It would be a nice bump to supporting are new bros out here, and be a minor buff to null sec.




Also a good idea, actually. Maybe introduce different low-level sites according to region/NPC type/whatever.