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New dev blog: Capital ship balancing

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sarsa
Tranquility Tavern
Pandemic Horde
#2501 - 2011-11-18 09:01:58 UTC
Vile rat wrote:
sarsa wrote:
Vile rat wrote:
Velin Dhal wrote:
Well as of right now, I'm on the test server with the new patch. Way to drop the ball CCP.

Hybrid balancing is great stuff, but I'm glad to see that once again, the older players in eve get screwed over. From the nerfs I'm seeing on here, you didn't listen to anyone in this thread. The massive Super nerf I'm seeing here is insanity. They are completely worthless.

Good job CCP on making Test and Goons now strong enough to push just about anyone they want out of Null. Seeming you just made the counter to their high member count disappear. Who needs skills points anymore when you can just have 3000 noobs.

Its getting more and more pointless to keep paying for a game that keeps alienating its older players.



Death to all supercaps.



So if 5000 goons voted CSM Mittani and Vile Rat the new brainiacs of eve that means they are the voice of eve community ?
I must remind CCP of the times when there were 47.000 players online well now there are 35.000 soon there will be 25.000 in the way you are going. You just made a favor to the blobs that have the same capital capability but not the balls to field them. The problem was not that supers were to hard to kill because that works in both ways doesn't it ? You are failing to deliver what the community asks since 3 years. I like how Tallest responds in that blog saying "I" want to make some changes dude change away what ever you like soon you will play it as a network game. And you might rethink you strategies because you guys might have a surprise when Diablo 3 will be released. I play this game for 8 years in each year you bring only disappointment to the community you encourage blobs all the time. YOU as CCP made this game a BLOB FEST.

Remember the upper you get the bigger is the fall.

Pointless to say anything to people like Vile Rat and Mittani they are people that think they are always right.
CSM members should be people with extensive knowledge about game mechanics and with good ideas CCP should recruit them through interviews/test not to put 5000 goons to vote them.

This is my opinion and how i had to put up to YOUR CHANGES patch after patch now you put up with My OPINION.


This would actually mean a thing if the CSM were Mittens and I. I suppose you're suggesting that the two PL guys, the two xdeath guys and a whole slew of CCP balancing guys just took what we said and put it in without considering the impact of the ships on the game? Interesting theory.

This is a nerf. This is a nerf to groups that use supercaps as the sole mechanism to project 0.0 power. This is a nerf to guys who like to bait small gangs then drop a titan on them much like a child melts ants with a magnifying glass. You're upset about this nerf and I can respect that because this is a hit to your playing style and you're hopping mad about it.


These changes are also the result of a significant amount of back and forth between parts of the CSM who represent SC heavy alliances, those who feel strongly that supercaps as they are now break the game and ruin the experience for the much larger percentage who don't have them, and CCP. These changes are also not the final word and there is going to be a great deal of attention given to the aftermath of these changes so if this wasn't done enough or too much it'll be addressed.


Now I'd love to have this conversation, a rational discourse on why we feel these changes are necessary, and why we pushed for them. Even though we didn't get nearly what we wanted, CCP did find another path that makes us mostly satisfied and that's why we were sent here.

So despite your immature words and incoherent rant I do get the motivation behind your anger. I think it's misplaced and you're coming across like a spoiled child, but that's in your delivery and not your sentiment.






That is the truth like it or not. Reverse psihology and a little honey in between words will not make you look smarter. I am not even a capital pilot so you are very much failing sir. I was born and forged in the subcapital warfare doctrine i learned how to kill them and how to save them. You complained that are so hard to kill but if we match the number of supers from each side would be pretty much even so how that puts you off balance ? that means you are not capable people. The main thing that ruined this game was BLOBS and you sir with your minions do form a blob that crashed many systems and ruined many battles on purpose that i guess is something that RUINS THE GAME. I have no problem in making changes but do them rationaly with some brains.
Next time when you call someone immature make sure you know what you are taking about. Cause you are out of your league sir.
As for Mittani i would have expected a better answer from a bug. ( was never part of bob ).

My previous post was my opinion towards CCP and towards you 2 smart asses.
Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2502 - 2011-11-18 09:41:44 UTC
sarsa wrote:
Next time when you call someone immature make sure you know what you are taking about. Cause you are out of your league sir.
As for Mittani i would have expected a better answer from a bug. ( was never part of bob ).

My previous post was my opinion towards CCP and towards you 2 smart asses.


With all due respect (and trust me you are getting every bit of the respect you've got due) I think I nailed it.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#2503 - 2011-11-18 09:58:21 UTC
People are afraid of change yet still they elected Obama.

Good job CCP.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Ammath
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2504 - 2011-11-18 12:16:05 UTC
Note to SuperCarrier Pilots concerning the Winter Expansion

Due to the changes in your ships -20% HP, loss of 100% of your drones, loss of 30% of your fighters we strongly suggest you quit your current corporation and join a corporation in a SuperCapital blob alliance to make sure your ship will actually be able to be used in combat. Coming out with less than 20-30 SCs to help keep you alive and do over whelming damage will be near suicide and at CCP we value our players and want to see them enjoy their eve experience. So please go join a super blob alliance to keep flying, because god knows your current FCs will never deploy 4-6 SCs anymore. This is CCPs way of helping you have fun in the game by making sure the SC rich get richer and those who scraped up enough to get a few SCs in their alliance get screwed. Happy holidays!
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2505 - 2011-11-18 13:23:00 UTC
Ammath wrote:
Note to SuperCarrier Pilots concerning the Winter Expansion

Due to the changes in your ships -20% HP, loss of 100% of your drones, loss of 30% of your fighters we strongly suggest you quit your current corporation and join a corporation in a SuperCapital blob alliance to make sure your ship will actually be able to be used in combat. Coming out with less than 20-30 SCs to help keep you alive and do over whelming damage will be near suicide and at CCP we value our players and want to see them enjoy their eve experience. So please go join a super blob alliance to keep flying, because god knows your current FCs will never deploy 4-6 SCs anymore. This is CCPs way of helping you have fun in the game by making sure the SC rich get richer and those who scraped up enough to get a few SCs in their alliance get screwed. Happy holidays!



Emorage never gets old. I can hear the inflection of held-back tears while reading your post. Love it.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.
Nur AlHuda
Callide Vulpis
#2506 - 2011-11-18 13:45:05 UTC
Drednoughts have terrible gun tracking no mater what race. If capital ship can speed tank dreadnoughts gun somethink is wrong.
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
#2507 - 2011-11-18 16:02:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
Please, just add a nice big drone bay on the Dreadnoughts. That's all I want for Christmas. Seriously, with a name like Dreadnought, they need to be scary. Very scary. Please, mom. Please?
Suiteii
Raven's Flight
#2508 - 2011-11-18 16:56:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Suiteii
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar wrote:
It began to appear that it would tend to attract additional accounts in one form or another because of the relative shift of advantage to sub-caps (which require less training time), and then I thought, well, who would profit from that? Certainly not Dread or Titan pilots. The answer I came up with is that CCP is the potential winner, as more accounts in the game would tend to offer more opportunity for paid subscriptions, especially from new pilots unable to generate enough income to use in-game plex.


It's easy to get behind the "I hate corporations" bandwagon, but believe it or not the player base and CCP are closely tied in this matter. When CCP is successful, more accounts are created, and the current players of Eve have more fun.

I don't see how you think that by CCP making money, it's somehow a bad thing for us...
Suiteii
Raven's Flight
#2509 - 2011-11-18 17:18:15 UTC
Ammath wrote:
Coming out with less than 20-30 SCs to help keep you alive and do over whelming damage will be near suicide


What makes the number of ‘twenty to thirty’ SCs so much more powerful than 15 SCs? Or 10 SCs? I think what you really mean to say is, ‘if you don’t vastly outnumber your opponent’s SC count, your alliance will not deploy their own’.

And how is that any different from how the game is currently?

As a smaller alliance (currently), I don’t see a difference between a major alliance dropping 10 SCs as opposed to 20-30. Either way, you may as well have the old Titan AoE doomsday.

But for this I can see your logic. If the deployment of SCs is dependent on the number of SCs being greater than your opponent, then every SC pilot will flock to the alliance with the most SCs.

But so what? If SCs are no longer the ‘swiss-army cap’ as Vilerat so eloquently put it, having the most SCs is really only a means of protecting them and doesn’t project a power-bloc’s influence over a region.

If somebody wanted to use their SC in relative safety, I think they need a reality check.
Jules Deathbringer
Redemption or Retribution
#2510 - 2011-11-18 21:18:24 UTC
summary to date


eve introduces new sov mechanic and new changes to titan aoe so that fighter bombers dont simply get nuked out of existance.

everyone says hmm maybe i need a super (gets another account to hold and begins training for this)

ccp says oh wait guys we fkd up and now ur super isnt gonna do everything it could before (again no explanation just swing the nerf bat)

ccp says we want u to fight so were changing nullsec ability to make ez money now (nerf batta batta swiing)

everyone says hmm i really need that super now, so the supers are purchased and new accounts are made to hold the super.

ccp says hmm now how hard can i swing this here nerf stick..


what about the storyline, how can u take away from existing ship designs. would caldari be able to ****** gallente nyx specifications so that thier nyx isnt as powerful and why would they nerf thier already lacking wyvern class in doing so.. answer is they wouldnt they would invent new ships or sov structures to either limit how these are used or where they can be used.

all the changes made to the game recently have me very out of charactar for role playing my accounts. devs are not focusing on what makes eve interesting or real at all, progress comes with new technology making old technology obsolete not by overnite changing across the universe how existing technology works with no explanation of why or how this could happen.

imo, if u want to fix eve do it by adding counter ships or weapons not by eliminating the skills/modules/ships that currently exisit. this is just another prime example why other mmo games might be worth checking out. if im going to spend hours every week doing something i dont want that progress to be ashes because some dev burned down the barn i was stabling my livestock in.

bbq yuum.. but ofc enuf loss and any sane person would simply stop playing.
Garick Harnigen
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2511 - 2011-11-19 10:23:30 UTC
you know if there making super capitals wanting to be useless in a subcap fight, they should balance it out with being able to dock their ships so that they can engage such subcaps and kill them with their own without having to own 2 accounts, so that they can deploy their super's
Sernum
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#2512 - 2011-11-19 13:53:43 UTC
BOOOOOOO!!!!! w/e tho.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2513 - 2011-11-19 14:08:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
algorythm wrote:
Supercaps are hard to build, hard to fit, and on top they require a dedicated pilot to fly them, why the hell wont they be Super?!


ahaha that's total bullshit and you know it

Thanks to BPC farms, mineral compression and jump freighters, a single dude with a few accounts can pump SCs and titans out of his supercap farm like it's nobody's business. The fittings are easily sourced off of the market and contracts, and there is so much damn ISK floating around that holder alts are a dime a dozen.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Blake Zacary
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2514 - 2011-11-19 17:37:09 UTC
What role in a fleet fight are the moms gonna play after the changes ?

I'm curious as well,is anything getting done to counter massive blobs or are we heading back to a very static and boring null.Where massive coalitions hold the same space for years due to having large blobs with no real counter ?

It does look like the game is being pushed towards whoever turns up with more at a single focal point in null wins.But skill,tactics and imagination are getting pushed out and punished in null,is this really what we want ?
Valia Deluri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2515 - 2011-11-19 19:02:29 UTC
If you are going to make things smaller and have less hit points then their build times and build materials should be less as well.
Also time to let Super Caps Doc. I stopped paying for ten accounts with you guys years ago and every time I see a nerf that effects super cap pilots, the result is buy more accounts if you want to survive.
Charles Edisson
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2516 - 2011-11-19 21:25:21 UTC
How about giving dreads a utility high slot so they could fit a Neut or a SB. this would return some form of defence to smaller ships that could get out of range of these modules making them defensive only and not offensive.

And while we're on the subject of capital modules why are there so many Frig/Cruiser/BS modules that do not have capital counter parts. Really the list of standard modules should be uniform across all classes of ship.
Charles Edisson
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2517 - 2011-11-19 21:32:56 UTC
Andski wrote:
algorythm wrote:
Supercaps are hard to build, hard to fit, and on top they require a dedicated pilot to fly them, why the hell wont they be Super?!


ahaha that's total bullshit and you know it

Thanks to BPC farms, mineral compression and jump freighters, a single dude with a few accounts can pump SCs and titans out of his supercap farm like it's nobody's business. The fittings are easily sourced off of the market and contracts, and there is so much damn ISK floating around that holder alts are a dime a dozen.


SC Titans can be build with 2 or three toons with not too much hastle appart from their risk of being destroyed in the cooker, they are the only ship that this applies to.
The isk/Inflation issue is actually one of the biggest issues in the game atm. The effective trade/isk deficite is massive. When CCP introduced PI they removed a large number of NPC items that removed isk from the game. Incursions added huge summs of new isk. something needs to be done to stabalise the increase in the isk in circulation. if this needs to be done through increasing market taxes or some other machanic so be it but this is a serious issue that needs addressing.
cstray
Confederation of Red Moon
#2518 - 2011-11-20 01:41:36 UTC
The only reason that the Supercap Nerf is happening is because 20 Supercarriers and titans killed 475 goon drakes when they attacked a CSAA in c3n a year ago.

What this means is that sc's were the only effecive counter to the blob and since Goons cannot fight without the blob they had the dev's remove the SC's effectiveness. Same as the AOE nerf and the list goes on and on about the way the devs suck mitiani and goonswarms ****.

When this is over you will see the Goons splerge all over the map with drake gangs filled with 3m sp players and state that that is what is good for the game.
Draconus Lofwyr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2519 - 2011-11-20 03:17:59 UTC
from the very start, goons have always been about scamming and ruining the game for everyone else. They have always been about not taking anything serious. So, congrats goons on another successful troll of the EvE universe. now the timer starts on how long till CCP realize they just got scammed and trolled all for the lulz.
Wibla
Tactical Narcotics Team
#2520 - 2011-11-20 06:04:17 UTC
Ah, this is truly a thread that keeps on giving :D