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[Rubicon] [Updated] Interdictor Rebalance

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NUXI7
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#481 - 2013-10-28 23:15:48 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Querns wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Magazine terminology corrected. :)

You've missed a great opportunity here -- namely, to call it "clipazine" and make the spergs on both side of the aisle angry.

In all seriousness, though, this is a very good change, especially to the interdiction sphere launcher. Too many times I've been sitting on a gatecamp, twiddling my thumbs, waiting for the sphere launcher to come off cooldown so I can ensure that a pod does not escape. The ASB-style reload mechanic means I don't have to wait any more.

One question -- can the new interdiction sphere launcher reload while cloaked? Having to hang out uncloaked on grid for a full minute, especially in a large fleet fight, would be darn near suicidal for the dictor, and just plain inconvenient otherwise. It's not a huge thing, but if it's possible, it'd be much appreciated.


It can't reload while cloaked. This is probably the part of the change that will have the most disruptive effect on current dictor tactics. However with the new resists and bonus pilots may choose to keep shooting while reloading and warping away and back is also always an option.


No amount of EHP will make a dictor not be a space coffin in a fleet fight. The only thing that gives you a chance of survival is the ability to cloak.

So while reloading while cloaked might be a bit OP, how about being able to complete a reload cycle that has already started? (currently if you cloak while reloading then the reloading operation simply fails) Or perhaps lowering the reload time to match the cloak reactivation delay at 30 seconds?
Alexander the Great
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#482 - 2013-10-28 23:16:19 UTC
1 minute reload is the worst thing you can do with fleet dictors. Waiting next iteration...
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#483 - 2013-10-28 23:37:48 UTC
Alexander the Great wrote:
1 minute reload is the worst thing you can do with fleet dictors. Waiting next iteration...

And a one minute fire rate we have now is different because?
E'lyna Mis Dimaloun
REUNI0N
Against ALL Authorities
#484 - 2013-10-28 23:42:12 UTC  |  Edited by: E'lyna Mis Dimaloun
Marlona Sky wrote:

And a one minute fire rate we have now is different because?


I don't know about you, I have a 30 sec rof on my Interdictor. Maybe you're fitting it wrong?
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#485 - 2013-10-28 23:48:47 UTC
Version 2 is much better.

Specially the amar one not being more agile than the minmatar one.


I hope you guys can keep in mind that a lot of the criticism of this thread can be applied on all classes sometimes.



Check for the real problem the pilots of thes eships face , and check that when you balance a ship you are not making it into a ship of another race.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
#486 - 2013-10-28 23:49:47 UTC
Fozzie when will this be on sisi??

Blue-Fire Best Fire
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#487 - 2013-10-29 00:04:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherine Laartii
Changes are nice. Only problem I see is the flycatcher staying with 1 lowslot. Perhaps it and the heretic can drop a high for a low? Heretic could swap for firing rate bonus for missiles and drop a slot, to have a 7/3/4 slot loadout, flycatcher gets 7/5/2. Other than that, +1 fozzie, gj on the second round.
Marian Devers
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
#488 - 2013-10-29 00:09:03 UTC
Mioelnir wrote:
Marian Devers wrote:
Edit: I'll give you a hint - what happens now when an Interdictor reloads his Sphere Launcher, and what will happen after the patch?

With interdictors 5 and 2 launchers you can currently launch 2 bubbles and then both launchers are in a 59 seconds reactivation delay. You have a 70.8 seconds delay if you are at 4. With shipskill 1 to 3 you should fly something else anyway P

With the proposed design, you can launch 3 bubbles over a period of 15 seconds, then reload 60 seconds. Meaning your second batch of bubbles is 5 seconds late over a current interdictor 4 pilot, but you have one more bubble to compensate. With 5 the delay between the first and the fourth bubble is longer, but the delay between the first and the third significantly shorter, allowing you to interdict a larger volume of space initially.


Where the proposed setup is worse is in an Interdictor 5 scenario where you use both launchers with a 60 seconds offset to spam bubbles at a constant rate. This is, however, not a tactic one currently survives. If your dictors have that high of a degree of freedom of on-field mobility, you already dominate the field absolutely.

For a "going in, dumping bubbles, getting out again, repeat" scenario the v2 proposal gives you one additional bubble over most setups (few dictors can make triple fits work), and increased survivability on your way in and out.


You need to stop thinking in terms of one bubble run, and more in terms of an entire fleet fight.

I can currently launch 2x bubbles every time I land on the enemy fleet, giving me a total of 10x dictor runs (10 second reload - assume its unlimited runs as long as I have probes in my cargo). During this time I am free to cloak/jump through.

Alternatively, I can choose 10 minutes (i.e., as long as my cargo lasts) of rapid bubble launching every 30 seconds.

With the changes:

I can still pull off the 2x bubble runs, however that assumes that I neither cloak nor jump through during that time. During a fleet fight. Yeah….

Alternatively, I can keep an enemy fleet bubbled for 90 seconds with 30x second bubble bursts, after which I have a reload gap of one minute. Once again, no cloaking or jumping through.

Finally, I can no longer keep a fleet bubbled with one bubble every 60 seconds, keeping a second bubble in reserve for any unexpected developments.

Kel hound
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#489 - 2013-10-29 00:56:38 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Interdictors v2 ahoy!

We're going a bit more radical with the updated rebalance on these ships, incorporating a few good ideas from the community and making changes to the sphere launchers as well as the ships themselves.

The biggest change is to the Interdiction Sphere Launcher itself. We're removing the reactivation delay, and instead giving the Launcher a smaller three bubble magazine, 5 second cycle time and one minute reload time (like the ASB). Interdiction Sphere Launchers will then be limited to one per ship.
This will mean that pilots will be able to launch three bubbles in quick succession and then wait 60 seconds for the reload, or choose to save their bubbles and launch one at a time to avoid the reload for as long as possible. The limit to one per ship will allow more practical fitting options for fleet dictors instead of forcing everyone into partially fit flying coffins, and fits well with the general survivability increases that are the second part of the v2 changes.

With the bubble reactivation delay gone, the shared Interdictors skill bonus is no longer needed and will be replaced with a 10% per level reduction in MWD signature radius penalty (at level 5 this gives the same benefit as the AF or HAC role bonus). We're also giving the dictors another slight bump in base HP and upgrading their T2 resists to the same level enjoyed by EAFs. Combined these changes should make it a lot more realistic for good interdictor pilots to stay on field for longer periods of time.

Since they are gaining such significant survivability benefits we are going to slightly pull back the speed at which they can enter the field, via a decrease in warp speed from 8au/s in the first proposal to 6.75au/s in this one (same speed as most T2 frigates). We are also toning down the agility changes on the Sabre and Heretic, to the slight benefit of the Sabre and slight detriment of the Heretic.

Finally we're also updating the Eris weapon systems to match the latest version of the Roden flavour. It will be a pure hybrid boat, with bonuses to optimal, tracking and damage. This matches the theme of the Ares and our plans for future rebalances of Roden Shipyards vessels.


ಥ◡ಥ
Faith restored
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#490 - 2013-10-29 01:22:58 UTC
Allison A'vani wrote:
I like the new changes, but can you give the flycatcher the 5% resist per level instead of the damage bonus so that is fills a shield fleet tackle role like how the Heretic now fulls a armor fleet tackle role?


This please.

Katrina Oniseki
Leto Atal
LoneStar Industries
#491 - 2013-10-29 01:25:19 UTC
No way should the Sabre have such a low agility compared with the others.

Why does the Heretic have a bonus to armour resistances? All the others have bonuses to weapon systems. I've always wondered about the reasons behind giving some ships extra tank and others yet another weapon bonus.

I'd like to see more equality on bonuses for ships in the same class. Resistances aren't the only bonuses that can be applied to improve defensive capability. What about x% reduction in signature radius per level for Minmatar ships for example?
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#492 - 2013-10-29 01:33:41 UTC
Finally the Eris is considerable for use, now let's wait til we can try it out.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#493 - 2013-10-29 01:57:20 UTC
Leto Atal wrote:
No way should the Sabre have such a low agility compared with the others.

Why does the Heretic have a bonus to armour resistances? All the others have bonuses to weapon systems. I've always wondered about the reasons behind giving some ships extra tank and others yet another weapon bonus.

I'd like to see more equality on bonuses for ships in the same class. Resistances aren't the only bonuses that can be applied to improve defensive capability. What about x% reduction in signature radius per level for Minmatar ships for example?

It's called...

V
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A
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JohnHoe
Perkone
Caldari State
#494 - 2013-10-29 02:14:50 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
Marian Devers wrote:
Roll back the changes. V1 was okay


Marian Devers wrote:
And please stop listening to people that have never flown the ship.


Am I the only one who finds this post confusing?

Good job, Foz-man! These dictors look pretty good to me: a hell of an improvement over version 1 and something I would definitely send to TQ for a few months of observation before contemplating whether more changes are necessary.

The only comment I really have at this point is that I'm not sure how I feel about the warp speed: I think if it were me I'd peg dictors at 8au/s, AFs at 9, and both flavors of inty at 13.5. Still, its not like dictors are going to get outrun by many targets even at 6au/s. I'll be curious to see how this plays out on TQ with warp speed mechanics just being so different in general. I suspect 6 au/s will be adequate, but I'll keep an eye on it.

I'm really glad you guys cooked up a real proposal! This just looks so much better than V1... I'm really relieved! Finally the months of "can't fight anything with my Sabre" look to be coming to an end!


You can't kill anything regardless of changes. What I am saying is you are bad at video games. Eve mail me man.
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#495 - 2013-10-29 02:29:35 UTC  |  Edited by: GeeShizzle MacCloud
Marlona Sky wrote:
Leto Atal wrote:
No way should the Sabre have such a low agility compared with the others.

Why does the Heretic have a bonus to armour resistances? All the others have bonuses to weapon systems. I've always wondered about the reasons behind giving some ships extra tank and others yet another weapon bonus.

I'd like to see more equality on bonuses for ships in the same class. Resistances aren't the only bonuses that can be applied to improve defensive capability. What about x% reduction in signature radius per level for Minmatar ships for example?

It's called...

V
A
R
I
A
T
I
O
N

A
N
D

F
L
A
V
O
R.


marlona, why r u such a c**t to people?

the guy was just asking why only 1 of the 4 recieved resist bonuses and why the sabres less agile than the eris.

I understand increased survivability but its like the heretics been trialed out in an artificial 'fleet interdictor' role with the resist bonus, before a shield version is considered.

As for the eris vs sabre, its been staple racial characteristics that minmatar are agile and can kite better, where as gallente have high straight line speed but poor agility. its why people are confused by the low agility of the sabre.

I'd say the sabre should have a 6 sec align time with max velocity of say 300m/sec and the eris say 325m/sec and 7sec align time.
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
#496 - 2013-10-29 02:54:40 UTC
Please, for the love of all that is Holy, don't mess with the Flycatcher's hi slots.

♪ They'll always be bloodclaws to me ♫
S1euth
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#497 - 2013-10-29 04:26:51 UTC  |  Edited by: S1euth
Thanks Fozzie - killing double bubble fleet fittings is a splendid surprise.

Drop the Flycatchers damage bonus for a shield resist bonus to give it a chance at catching reps or using a double ASB fit and it'll be a winner. Currently, the Sabre still has a DPS advantage and agility advantage with EHP parity because of "Winmatar t2 resists".
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#498 - 2013-10-29 04:33:56 UTC
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Leto Atal wrote:
No way should the Sabre have such a low agility compared with the others.

Why does the Heretic have a bonus to armour resistances? All the others have bonuses to weapon systems. I've always wondered about the reasons behind giving some ships extra tank and others yet another weapon bonus.

I'd like to see more equality on bonuses for ships in the same class. Resistances aren't the only bonuses that can be applied to improve defensive capability. What about x% reduction in signature radius per level for Minmatar ships for example?

It's called...

V
A
R
I
A
T
I
O
N

A
N
D

F
L
A
V
O
R.


marlona, why r u such a c**t to people?

the guy was just asking why only 1 of the 4 recieved resist bonuses and why the sabres less agile than the eris.

I understand increased survivability but its like the heretics been trialed out in an artificial 'fleet interdictor' role with the resist bonus, before a shield version is considered.

As for the eris vs sabre, its been staple racial characteristics that minmatar are agile and can kite better, where as gallente have high straight line speed but poor agility. its why people are confused by the low agility of the sabre.

I'd say the sabre should have a 6 sec align time with max velocity of say 300m/sec and the eris say 325m/sec and 7sec align time.


afaik you got that backwards gal are agile min are faster.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#499 - 2013-10-29 04:42:18 UTC
i approve of v2 changes

finnaly t2 res!

t2 res on everything that is t2!!!!! maradurs and blackops too!!!!!!!

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Meyr
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#500 - 2013-10-29 06:22:54 UTC
Fozzie - after bashing your original proposal repeatedly, you have earned the following:

THANK YOU!Attention

While I'd really like to see one more mid on the Eris for tackle, and one more low on the Flycatcher, I can understand why you kept the current slot count.

The Eris, in particular, will now be something that can actually go and HUNT! Triple bonuses to 7 turrets! (Although, I'm perfectly willing to swap a high for a mid, if you're of a mind to...). Improved resists! Woo Hoo!

Did you have this in your pocket the whole time, and just wanted to see our reactions? Yes, I know you took away my drone - I'll manage to set aside my grief, and bravely continue on with the tools you provide.

Job well done, Sir! While I'm not completely happy (if I was, you'd probably have made a major mistake somewhereShocked), this goes a very long way towards making these ships something that frigates will fear seeing on D-scan, which is as it should be.Big smile