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[Rubicon] [Updated] Interdictor Rebalance

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Author
Phoenix Jones
The Markoni Dragons
#521 - 2013-10-29 13:50:51 UTC
I'm ok with the dps changes on these ships.

They do allot of damage now, or at least have the potential to. Ok in retrospect Assault Frigates might have an issue with them.

That is fine.


These are based off the destroyer hulls, which are generally not overly used except for microfleets or ganking freighters. These interdictors can be run solo, can be run in a gang, can be run in a fleet, and they aren't dusted off the field in 3 seconds.

They may have become too strong based on the ability for them to kite and potentially kill larger targets.

Again, fine with that.

The real fear with people using these is not the assault frigate or cruiser players....

Its the people in the capitals, supercapitals and titans....

Nullsec and wormhole space just got more dangerous for cap pilots...

And on the flycatcher, has anybody actually fit out one yet with the new changes? I hear people complaining about the single low... but has anybody actually tried/fit it yet?

Yaay!!!!

GeeShizzle MacCloud
#522 - 2013-10-29 14:02:54 UTC  |  Edited by: GeeShizzle MacCloud
Phoenix Jones wrote:

...

And on the flycatcher, has anybody actually fit out one yet with the new changes? I hear people complaining about the single low... but has anybody actually tried/fit it yet?


just finished adding the new changes to my EveHQ and have this as a quick mock up

[Rubicon Flycatcher, Rubicon shield Fleet Prototype]

Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
EM Ward Amplifier II
Warp Scrambler II

Interdiction Sphere Launcher I
Prototype Cloaking Device I
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I


10.1k ehp tank omni
2.6km/sec mwd on (3.7km/sec OH)
fairly even resists - ie no gaping holes
139 DPS with 15km range

obviously you can reduce agility/speed to add dps or reduce agility/speed & dps for higher tank but its very workable currently imho i cant see it being a high DPS platform with only 1 low, though with light missiles it might be a good kiter.
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
#523 - 2013-10-29 14:41:55 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:


And on the flycatcher, has anybody actually fit out one yet with the new changes? I hear people complaining about the single low... but has anybody actually tried/fit it yet?


I once wished for a second low (not in this thread), but both V1 and V2 changes are more than enough to make me a happy pilot.

I support flycatcher v2. A lot.

♪ They'll always be bloodclaws to me ♫

KA3AHOBA
A0 Inc
#524 - 2013-10-29 15:18:46 UTC
Fix Black Ops

>Note: can fit Covert Cynosural Field Generators and Covert Jump Portal Generators

Why Black Ops cant be fitted with Covert cloaking device and warp in cloak ???
That is like stels bombers without cloak warping.....

Blackbird have cheap price and much more range of jammers and good jammers power but Falcon have biggest price + low range + not so jamm power+no tank+targeting penalty after de cloack !!! :(

Why All Force Recons have penalty after de cloaking ???
Sigras
Conglomo
#525 - 2013-10-29 15:43:27 UTC
KA3AHOBA wrote:
Fix Black Ops

>Note: can fit Covert Cynosural Field Generators and Covert Jump Portal Generators

Why Black Ops cant be fitted with Covert cloaking device and warp in cloak ???
That is like stels bombers without cloak warping.....

Blackbird have cheap price and much more range of jammers and good jammers power but Falcon have biggest price + low range + not so jamm power+no tank+targeting penalty after de cloack !!! :(

Why All Force Recons have penalty after de cloaking ???

1. Really off topic
2. because warping cloaked wouldnt fix any of the problems that black ops ships have and would actually introduce some new ones.
3. are you really arguing that the falcon is under powered?
Tiye Q
SOLAR MESSIAHS INC.
#526 - 2013-10-29 17:31:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiye Q
Rapid launch bomb launcher please.

Thanks.
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#527 - 2013-10-29 19:14:15 UTC
Why is the cap regen for all the dictors the same? The Eris has by far the largest cap draw. It's the same for interceptors where the Crusader has by far the largest cap draw.

In other news, the Eris pumps out huge >300dps before heat in its bubble, more than a Catalyst. I'm guessing it will be the most popular dictor. I'm also fearing that dictors will be a straight upgrade for T1 destroyers, even if you don't care about the bubble.
Imigo Montoya
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#528 - 2013-10-29 19:24:44 UTC
Loving the v2 changes. Thanks.
Samara Anninen
#529 - 2013-10-29 21:59:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Samara Anninen
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Finally we're also updating the Eris weapon systems to match the latest version of the Roden flavour.

Maybe Nemesis and Eris should swap the manufacturers?
IMHO, it would be more logical from lore side if missiles-using SB would be produced by Roden (who prefer missiles) while blasters-using dictor would be produced by leading blaster manufacturer (Duvolle).
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#530 - 2013-10-30 01:14:09 UTC
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:
Why is the cap regen for all the dictors the same? The Eris has by far the largest cap draw. It's the same for interceptors where the Crusader has by far the largest cap draw.

In other news, the Eris pumps out huge >300dps before heat in its bubble, more than a Catalyst. I'm guessing it will be the most popular dictor. I'm also fearing that dictors will be a straight upgrade for T1 destroyers, even if you don't care about the bubble.


The speed is the main thing for me. Dictors move at sensible speeds, but destroyers and AFs are lol slow for some reason.

Also the cap thing is the same on all ships - ships that need more cap don't actually get more cap, meaning amarr suck at cap warfare and minmatar have neuts everywhere because they have normal cap recharge, despite having no modules that actually use it (lol ASBs).
Gallastian Khanid
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#531 - 2013-10-30 01:30:10 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
I'm ok with the dps changes on these ships.

They do allot of damage now, or at least have the potential to. Ok in retrospect Assault Frigates might have an issue with them.

That is fine.


These are based off the destroyer hulls, which are generally not overly used except for microfleets or ganking freighters. These interdictors can be run solo, can be run in a gang, can be run in a fleet, and they aren't dusted off the field in 3 seconds.

They may have become too strong based on the ability for them to kite and potentially kill larger targets.

Again, fine with that.

The real fear with people using these is not the assault frigate or cruiser players....

Its the people in the capitals, supercapitals and titans....

Nullsec and wormhole space just got more dangerous for cap pilots...

And on the flycatcher, has anybody actually fit out one yet with the new changes? I hear people complaining about the single low... but has anybody actually tried/fit it yet?


Current Flycatcher has only 1 low. It is still a strong Dictor with a lot of niche roles. Having a gazillion mids means you can fit a mean shield tank on a Flycatcher.
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
#532 - 2013-10-30 01:55:50 UTC
Dictors... giggle Pirate

♪ They'll always be bloodclaws to me ♫

Hairpins Blueprint
CBC Interstellar
Goonswarm Federation
#533 - 2013-10-30 11:53:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Hairpins Blueprint
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Interdictors v2 ahoy!

We're going a bit more radical with the updated rebalance on these ships, incorporating a few good ideas from the community and making changes to the sphere launchers as well as the ships themselves.

The biggest change is to the Interdiction Sphere Launcher itself. We're removing the reactivation delay, and instead giving the Launcher a smaller three bubble magazine, 5 second cycle time and one minute reload time (like the ASB). Interdiction Sphere Launchers will then be limited to one per ship.
This will mean that pilots will be able to launch three bubbles in quick succession and then wait 60 seconds for the reload, or choose to save their bubbles and launch one at a time to avoid the reload for as long as possible. The limit to one per ship will allow more practical fitting options for fleet dictors instead of forcing everyone into partially fit flying coffins, and fits well with the general survivability increases that are the second part of the v2 changes.

With the bubble reactivation delay gone, the shared Interdictors skill bonus is no longer needed and will be replaced with a 10% per level reduction in MWD signature radius penalty (at level 5 this gives the same benefit as the AF or HAC role bonus). We're also giving the dictors another slight bump in base HP and upgrading their T2 resists to the same level enjoyed by EAFs. Combined these changes should make it a lot more realistic for good interdictor pilots to stay on field for longer periods of time.

Since they are gaining such significant survivability benefits we are going to slightly pull back the speed at which they can enter the field, via a decrease in warp speed from 8au/s in the first proposal to 6.75au/s in this one (same speed as most T2 frigates). We are also toning down the agility changes on the Sabre and Heretic, to the slight benefit of the Sabre and slight detriment of the Heretic.

Finally we're also updating the Eris weapon systems to match the latest version of the Roden flavour. It will be a pure hybrid boat, with bonuses to optimal, tracking and damage. This matches the theme of the Ares and our plans for future rebalances of Roden Shipyards vessels.


Now thats SUPERB :Lol best changes to interdictors you could do \o/
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#534 - 2013-10-30 13:13:11 UTC
Samara Anninen wrote:
Maybe Nemesis and Eris should swap the manufacturers?
IMHO, it would be more logical from lore side if missiles-using SB would be produced by Roden (who prefer missiles) while blasters-using dictor would be produced by leading blaster manufacturer (Duvolle).

I think the point here is that Roden's backstory is switching them from missiles to railguns. Considering the expansion of the Minmatar missile ship range and the expansion of the Khanid theme to cover long as well as short ranged missiles, we don't need Roden muscling in on that territory as well and rails make more sense.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Alghara
Les chevaliers de l'ordre
Goonswarm Federation
#535 - 2013-10-30 14:36:56 UTC
very good revision "V2".

But i don't like very much the heretic with 3 medium 3 low.

for me 2 medium 4 low will be better like eris
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#536 - 2013-10-30 17:49:14 UTC
Alghara wrote:
very good revision "V2".

But i don't like very much the heretic with 3 medium 3 low.

for me 2 medium 4 low will be better like eris

If you prefer the slot layout of the Eris then fly the Eris. Choices man, choices. Racial destroyer V only takes about a week.
Alghara
Les chevaliers de l'ordre
Goonswarm Federation
#537 - 2013-10-30 20:12:22 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
Alghara wrote:
very good revision "V2".

But i don't like very much the heretic with 3 medium 3 low.

for me 2 medium 4 low will be better like eris

If you prefer the slot layout of the Eris then fly the Eris. Choices man, choices. Racial destroyer V only takes about a week.


i can fly all race it's not a problem.

But 3 slot for dps and tanking is really short.


Syri Taneka
NOVA-CAINE
#538 - 2013-10-30 20:31:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Syri Taneka
Alghara wrote:
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
Alghara wrote:
very good revision "V2".

But i don't like very much the heretic with 3 medium 3 low.

for me 2 medium 4 low will be better like eris

If you prefer the slot layout of the Eris then fly the Eris. Choices man, choices. Racial destroyer V only takes about a week.


i can fly all race it's not a problem.

But 3 slot for dps and tanking is really short.




Odd...

Last I checked, an interdictor's role in a fleet isn't DPS...

Oh! You're talking about being an ******* and gate camping to trap shuttles and t1 frigates.

Bring a friend?

ETA: Having now actually read over the updates, I can respond with actual logic!

The Heretic has 3 lows where the Eris has 4 for two reasons: Better base resists, and built-in non-stacking-nerfed t2 ANP (4% per level skill bonus).

Amarr t2 resists for armor are fairly good across the board, with the Heretic having 48 lowest (therm) @ lvl 5. This is prior to any mods. The Eris has a lowest of 10 (exp) and no skill bonus to that, which means dedicating a low to exp resist is essentially a requirement.

Giving the Heretic a 4th low would make it rather OP compared to the other 3 (especially the poor Flycatcher, which basically has to choose between more damage or a DC II (which isn't really a choice at all = P)).
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#539 - 2013-10-30 20:49:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Antillie Sa'Kan
Alghara wrote:
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
Alghara wrote:
very good revision "V2".

But i don't like very much the heretic with 3 medium 3 low.

for me 2 medium 4 low will be better like eris

If you prefer the slot layout of the Eris then fly the Eris. Choices man, choices. Racial destroyer V only takes about a week.


i can fly all race it's not a problem.

But 3 slot for dps and tanking is really short.

Actually I would think that being able to fit the standard MWD/web/scam would make the ship more useful as a tackler in a small gate camp than being able to fit another damage or tank mod on a destroyer hull would. A ship for each style I guess. Then again I don't do gate camps as I find them boring.
S1euth
Perkone
Caldari State
#540 - 2013-10-31 00:48:53 UTC
Syri Taneka wrote:


(especially the poor Flycatcher, which basically has to choose between more damage or a DC II (which isn't really a choice at all = P)).


The Flycatchers choice is between a nano or a co-processor II; Flycatcher pilots dream of the day when they can choose between a BCS or DC II.