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[Rubicon] Rapid Heavy Missile Launchers

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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#361 - 2013-10-25 00:35:12 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
the problem you have here is you assume range is needed ... HM's will do much more damage against a webbed maller than cruises will .. perhaps cruise precision might give Fury/ Faction HM's a run for their money.

Everyone assume range isn't an issue... until it's an issue. Regardless, a RHML with heavies will only do 80% of the DPS of cruises. Precision cruises on something like a RNI would probably be on par with heavies and an RHML for DPS and damage application, and way ahead on range.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#362 - 2013-10-25 01:07:19 UTC
Everyoe has to whine about something. These won't be OP at all, they will play the role they are made to play well and little else. Funny how missiles have very little options to them of what you can do with them compared to guns or drones, but one new thing and everyone goes crazy haha. The RHMLs will do well against cruisers, against anything bigger and Torps/Cruisers will be a better choice, and against frigates they will do ok, but not all that great. Hell Rapid Light Missile Launchers aren't OP, they are great against frigates and destroyers but anything bigger and you are in trouble. don't believe me, fit a Caracal one with HML or HAMS and the other with RMLs. Make the meds, lows and rigs all the same on both boats and tell me how it goes.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#363 - 2013-10-25 01:14:53 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
When someoen say taht somethign is goign to be overpowered they are not thinking about Level 4's.. they are thinking about EVE.. and that means PVP

I am thinking of PvP. With maximum skills, you're looking at 65km range, 105m signature radius, 80% DPS (compared to cruise) and horrible, horrible missile velocity. With cruise you only have a 30-40% larger signature radius, 20% more DPS and the speed is double out to a range of over 200km. Which would you choose?



Depend agaisnt who I am fighting.

If you had to fight Hacs.. the RML woudl have FAR superior effective DPS.

So surely not the cruises. Cruise missiles are only strong agaisnt BC and larger targets. Since 90% of the ships I fight are in the cruiser bracket of size....

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#364 - 2013-10-25 01:28:26 UTC
Quote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:

Kagura Nikon wrote:
When someoen say taht somethign is goign to be overpowered they are not thinking about Level 4's.. they are thinking about EVE.. and that means PVP

I am thinking of PvP. With maximum skills, you're looking at 65km range, 105m signature radius, 80% DPS (compared to cruise) and horrible, horrible missile velocity. With cruise you only have a 30-40% larger signature radius, 20% more DPS and the speed is double out to a range of over 200km. Which would you choose?


Depend agaisnt who I am fighting.

If you had to fight Hacs.. the RML woudl have FAR superior effective DPS.

So surely not the cruises. Cruise missiles are only strong agaisnt BC and larger targets. Since 90% of the ships I fight are in the cruiser bracket of size....


I would still like to see a Cerb with HML or HAMS go against a Cerb that is using RML. Both have the same meds, low, and rigs, and both use missiles of the same damage type and see how it goes. I doubt the RML will out DPS the HMLs or HAMs even with the HACs 50% from MWD sig
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#365 - 2013-10-25 01:38:26 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Depend agaisnt who I am fighting.
If you had to fight Hacs.. the RML woudl have FAR superior effective DPS.

So surely not the cruises. Cruise missiles are only strong agaisnt BC and larger targets. Since 90% of the ships I fight are in the cruiser bracket of size....

Fair enough. If I wanted to go cruiser hunting, I'd probably run a Raven Navy Issue with three Rigors, a pair of RLMLs, four RHMLs and a pair of cruise. Missile boats aren't going to be the pushovers they were in Rubicon...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#366 - 2013-10-25 11:15:02 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
Quote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:

Kagura Nikon wrote:
When someoen say taht somethign is goign to be overpowered they are not thinking about Level 4's.. they are thinking about EVE.. and that means PVP

I am thinking of PvP. With maximum skills, you're looking at 65km range, 105m signature radius, 80% DPS (compared to cruise) and horrible, horrible missile velocity. With cruise you only have a 30-40% larger signature radius, 20% more DPS and the speed is double out to a range of over 200km. Which would you choose?


Depend agaisnt who I am fighting.

If you had to fight Hacs.. the RML woudl have FAR superior effective DPS.

So surely not the cruises. Cruise missiles are only strong agaisnt BC and larger targets. Since 90% of the ships I fight are in the cruiser bracket of size....


I would still like to see a Cerb with HML or HAMS go against a Cerb that is using RML. Both have the same meds, low, and rigs, and both use missiles of the same damage type and see how it goes. I doubt the RML will out DPS the HMLs or HAMs even with the HACs 50% from MWD sig



want to try? Just war dec us.. we run a lot of cerberus with RML....

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#367 - 2013-10-25 11:15:19 UTC
This thread might as well be locked with a "finalized", because it's unlikely we'll see any changes to the proposal for RHMLs (lack of dev feedback and these seem to be following the RLMLs with minimal hull bonuses).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#368 - 2013-10-25 11:18:19 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
This thread might as well be locked with a "finalized", because it's unlikely we'll see any changes to the proposal for RHMLs (lack of dev feedback and these seem to be following the RLMLs with minimal hull bonuses).



These threads are always left open until a few days after the patch hits. CCP likes to see imemdiate feedback seems.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#369 - 2013-10-25 15:33:40 UTC
New Launcher Models??

No Worries
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#370 - 2013-10-25 16:06:38 UTC
Quote:

want to try? Just war dec us.. we run a lot of cerberus with RML....


I doubt we will wardec you, we don't wardec per say, no need to. But I'm game sometime to one on one with Cerbs and see. Ever get on sisi, that's all I am able to get on for now, and the next few months. The join of where I am, and my job haha.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#371 - 2013-10-25 18:15:44 UTC
You guys should get a room...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Optimo Sebiestor
The New Eden School of trade
Organization of Skill Extracting Corporations
#372 - 2013-10-25 18:33:54 UTC
What dmg are we talking about on the raven With the New launchers With max skills?
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#373 - 2013-10-25 18:58:07 UTC
Optimo Sebiestor wrote:
What dmg are we talking about on the raven With the New launchers With max skills?

About 80% the DPS of cruise.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#374 - 2013-10-25 19:54:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Lipbite
Optimo Sebiestor wrote:
What dmg are we talking about on the raven With the New launchers With max skills?


Equipped navy Raven with T2 cruisers - got ~800 vs 600 DPS with T2 RHML (skills in IV). Could use T2 HML Tengu for better results (sans MJD). I don't get it.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#375 - 2013-10-25 21:03:37 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
Equipped navy Raven with T2 cruisers - got ~800 vs 600 DPS with T2 RHML (skills in IV). Could use T2 HML Tengu for better results (sans MJD). I don't get it.

1. It's not a Tengu.
2. The nerf bat is circling the T3s.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#376 - 2013-10-26 16:24:16 UTC
Quote:
Depend agaisnt who I am fighting.

If you had to fight Hacs.. the RML woudl have FAR superior effective DPS.

So surely not the cruises. Cruise missiles are only strong agaisnt BC and larger targets. Since 90% of the ships I fight are in the cruiser bracket of size....


Kagura Nikon,

I tested this out on sisi, Against a regular cruiser or faction cruiser HAMs do MUCH more damage per volley then a RLM, and against HACs they both did pretty much the same damage per volley, only a 5 to 15 different in damage, and sometimes it was higher with HAMs, sometimes higher with RLM (depends on the HAC I fought), but HAMs have a faster rate of fire, so really their DPS would be higher.

Both used scourge caldari navy missiles, and I didn't kill the ship I was fighting, so their fits wouldn't be different at all. The only really nice thing I saw with RLMs was they killed drone in 2 shots, and they shot out to 94km, instead of the 45km that the HAMs did. The RLMs also use less PG and CPU it seems, so if that is an issue for a fit they might be a better choice then HAMs or HMLs. I used a Cerb as my test boat. But HAMs fire every 6s, to the RLMs 10s before bonuses, that's a pretty huge differance. Now RLM vs HMLs, I'm not sure which would be better.

The issue I have with RHMLs is that ALL cruisers that get bonuses to missiles get them to HAMs, HMLs, and RLMs, where as BSs still only get their bonuses to Torps, and cruisers, I very much hope CCP fixes this very soon. I also hope CCP makes the Golem look like the Raven again, but thats for a different forum haha.

Kagura Nikon thanks for bring that up though so I could really test them.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#377 - 2013-10-26 16:49:29 UTC
Omfg... do I need to explain everything?


Hint the mwd bonus on the hac is a TRAP!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
To mare
Advanced Technology
#378 - 2013-10-26 17:08:55 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
Quote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:

Kagura Nikon wrote:
When someoen say taht somethign is goign to be overpowered they are not thinking about Level 4's.. they are thinking about EVE.. and that means PVP

I am thinking of PvP. With maximum skills, you're looking at 65km range, 105m signature radius, 80% DPS (compared to cruise) and horrible, horrible missile velocity. With cruise you only have a 30-40% larger signature radius, 20% more DPS and the speed is double out to a range of over 200km. Which would you choose?


Depend agaisnt who I am fighting.

If you had to fight Hacs.. the RML woudl have FAR superior effective DPS.

So surely not the cruises. Cruise missiles are only strong agaisnt BC and larger targets. Since 90% of the ships I fight are in the cruiser bracket of size....


I would still like to see a Cerb with HML or HAMS go against a Cerb that is using RML. Both have the same meds, low, and rigs, and both use missiles of the same damage type and see how it goes. I doubt the RML will out DPS the HMLs or HAMs even with the HACs 50% from MWD sig

why would you even do that, a rml fit will have more fitting left so it will make a better use of the other slots.
plus the rml one its much less vulnerable to small ships so its a better machine overall
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#379 - 2013-10-26 17:25:55 UTC
The -50 to MWD isnt a trap, if you know how to fly a HAC it is pretty nice, you can take bigger ships more easy and other cruisers aren't much an issue, smaller ships just don't have the tank to mess with HACs one on one so that's not an issue.

RLMs are nice against destroyers and frigate, but against cruisers or larger HAMs are a much better pick, which my test proved. HMLs might even be better then RLMs too. But in EVE it's all about knowing your enemy, if I know I'm fighting frigates and/or destroyers then I'll use my Cerb that has a RLMs, if I'm fighting cruisers or larger I'll use HAMs, if I'm fighting a mix or not sure what I'm going against I'll take my chance with HAMs. 45km is damn good range for HAMs.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#380 - 2013-10-26 18:33:37 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
The -50 to MWD isnt a trap, if you know how to fly a HAC it is pretty nice, you can take bigger ships more easy and other cruisers aren't much an issue, smaller ships just don't have the tank to mess with HACs one on one so that's not an issue.

RLMs are nice against destroyers and frigate, but against cruisers or larger HAMs are a much better pick, which my test proved. HMLs might even be better then RLMs too. But in EVE it's all about knowing your enemy, if I know I'm fighting frigates and/or destroyers then I'll use my Cerb that has a RLMs, if I'm fighting cruisers or larger I'll use HAMs, if I'm fighting a mix or not sure what I'm going against I'll take my chance with HAMs. 45km is damn good range for HAMs.

Rigor, rigor and more rigor...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.