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New dev blog: Capital ship balancing

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Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2461 - 2011-11-17 19:01:03 UTC
Velin Dhal wrote:
Well as of right now, I'm on the test server with the new patch. Way to drop the ball CCP.

Hybrid balancing is great stuff, but I'm glad to see that once again, the older players in eve get screwed over. From the nerfs I'm seeing on here, you didn't listen to anyone in this thread. The massive Super nerf I'm seeing here is insanity. They are completely worthless.

Good job CCP on making Test and Goons now strong enough to push just about anyone they want out of Null. Seeming you just made the counter to their high member count disappear. Who needs skills points anymore when you can just have 3000 noobs.

Its getting more and more pointless to keep paying for a game that keeps alienating its older players.



Death to all supercaps.
Jita Alt666
#2462 - 2011-11-17 19:06:08 UTC
This is my new favourite thread: Thanks for bumping it CCP; I know you just wanted to share the tears with everyone.

To ensure I am on topic:
Thank you for the changes CCP, I look forward to leading small subcap gangs (10-15) through 0.0 without having to watch for the inevitable cyno alt attempting to get on grid with us to drop 15 unsupported super capitals on us for lols.
Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2463 - 2011-11-17 19:07:29 UTC
Jita Alt666 wrote:
This is my new favourite thread: Thanks for bumping it CCP; I know you just wanted to share the tears with everyone.

To ensure I am on topic:
Thank you for the changes CCP, I look forward to leading small subcap gangs (10-15) through 0.0 without having to watch for the inevitable cyno alt attempting to get on grid with us to drop 15 unsupported super capitals on us for lols.



They are still welcome to try this kind of garbage if they really want to :)
CoLe Blackblood
the united
#2464 - 2011-11-17 19:46:59 UTC
Lookin good CCP. The tears will be endless.
Cid SilverWing
Doomheim
#2465 - 2011-11-17 20:06:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Cid SilverWing
Dreadnoughts are already sitting ducks when Sieging, they shouldn't be so unable to hit anything when not moving. The Tracking penalty on the Siege needs to go, badly. This will give Dreadnoughts the buff they've been crying for since the start and make them much more viable again. They're not supposed to be pigeonholed into POS-bashing, they should be able to shoot enemy caps and maybe even battleships. They ARE already vulnerable, so any more nerfing is just cruel on Dread pilots that enjoy being in the big ships.

And it seems to me it's the Titans that should have Tracking penalties, or be unable to fit/receive Tracking assistance. This to further stop people from simply replacing SC blobs with Titan blobs.

Further testing should be committed into this epic nerfing of carriers and supercarriers, however, because I have a terrible feeling they're being overnerfed into useless. I've seen people who like taking carriers out to ratting, even supercarriers.
A Reynolds
COBRA CONSTRUCTION
#2466 - 2011-11-17 20:08:31 UTC
moros just got castrated. time to sell quick before palyers find out. Capital gallente ship with no drone bay lol
zero2espect
Space-Brewery-Association
#2467 - 2011-11-17 20:26:54 UTC
forget shooting stuff in jita 4-4. i'm waiting to see the unsubs. my super training toon is definately being put to sleep.
Suiteii
Raven's Flight
#2468 - 2011-11-17 20:33:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Suiteii
I love the changes.

Even for small alliances, the natural escalation of a fight will be as follows:

- Subcap fleet A (SF-A) engages subcap fleet B (SF-B)

- Subcap fleet A (SF-A) drops triage carrier to support the fleet.

- Subcap fleet B (SF-B) drops dreadnought + carrier to counter triage carrier from SF-A

- Subcap fleet A (SF-A) drops mothership to counter dreadnought + carrier from SF-B

- Subcap Fleet B (SF-B) drops titan to counter mothership.

This is how Eve was meant to be played.
Blobbing is an unforunate side-effect of Eve, but it happens. If you wanted even 10v10 fights matched isk for isk... you can try every other game on the market.

Having a mothership won't mean "I win" anymore. It's merely adding another tier to the escalation process.

As it is currently, you can just skipp this whole escalation process:

- SF-A warps in to SF-B

- SF-B drops a mothership.

- Over.

With the new changes, when SF-B drops its MOM, SF-A can still win with superior fighting ability/numbers
zero2espect
Space-Brewery-Association
#2469 - 2011-11-17 20:43:44 UTC
^^

if you think this is what is going to happen, i can't help you.

now what will happen is you will either see no supers or you will be dropped by 40 of them.

this is the kind of post which got us into this situation in the first place.
S8nt
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2470 - 2011-11-17 20:47:00 UTC  |  Edited by: S8nt
CCP you are being ******** and short sited by making these changes to super carriers and Titans... you are only going to make the problem worse... get someone that can see what you are actually doing by making these changes...

A simple RL example:

I buy a Farrari which I spent years saving for. Now all of a sudden there is some emmisions concerns with it. So I take it in for a service. When they return it to me I find they have no put a mini's engine in because it was a problem before. Would you accept that change made or would you want something equivalent or better?

By making the changes to the ships and log of mechanics you are forcing corps and alliances to stay away from them, if they cannot fund or support them or you are going to force them to have hundreds of them so that if they do need to commit they are sure they are going to win...

I said this when you changed them in Dominion... you are not looking at the big picture and you are destroying your game. This is going to push it even further into the crap.

Please listen to reason and stop butchering features in this game for the sake of profit and your shareholders!

S8nt
GRIEV3R
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#2471 - 2011-11-17 20:50:42 UTC
I am a proud ally of Goons. I have flown my Nyx on numerous ops with the CFC Super Club. I have great respect for the Mittani and other highly placed members of Goons. Having flown with them, I can vouch for them being very smart players, and, as Malcom Reynolds would say, "kind and decent folk."

But I disagree very strongly with their thesis of "death to all supercaps"

I think SCs and Titans are awesome ships that could really add to the game, if they were balanced right. I was very sad to get rid of my Nyx, and in spite of this nerf I still dream of flying an Erebus. I hope CCP takes "death to all supers" under consideration as just one of many opinions. Please don't just automatically give Mittani everything he wants as far as supers are concerned and ignore all other views.

Mittani is almost always right, but this time, on this issue, he's got it all wrong.
Suiteii
Raven's Flight
#2472 - 2011-11-17 21:40:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Suiteii
Suiteii wrote:
Blobbing is an unforunate side-effect of Eve, but it happens. If you wanted even 10v10 fights matched isk for isk... you can try every other game on the market.


zero2espect wrote:
^^

if you think this is what is going to happen, i can't help you.

now what will happen is you will either see no supers or you will be dropped by 40 of them.

this is the kind of post which got us into this situation in the first place.


When someone drops 40 supercapitals to fight your one, you're going to lose. CCP isn't trying to nerf blobbing. Blobbing is a part of Eve.

CCP is only trying to stop those 40 supercarriers from being the answer to -every- situation.
sarsa
Tranquility Tavern
Pandemic Horde
#2473 - 2011-11-17 21:42:14 UTC
Vile rat wrote:
Velin Dhal wrote:
Well as of right now, I'm on the test server with the new patch. Way to drop the ball CCP.

Hybrid balancing is great stuff, but I'm glad to see that once again, the older players in eve get screwed over. From the nerfs I'm seeing on here, you didn't listen to anyone in this thread. The massive Super nerf I'm seeing here is insanity. They are completely worthless.

Good job CCP on making Test and Goons now strong enough to push just about anyone they want out of Null. Seeming you just made the counter to their high member count disappear. Who needs skills points anymore when you can just have 3000 noobs.

Its getting more and more pointless to keep paying for a game that keeps alienating its older players.



Death to all supercaps.



So if 5000 goons voted CSM Mittani and Vile Rat the new brainiacs of eve that means they are the voice of eve community ?
I must remind CCP of the times when there were 47.000 players online well now there are 35.000 soon there will be 25.000 in the way you are going. You just made a favor to the blobs that have the same capital capability but not the balls to field them. The problem was not that supers were to hard to kill because that works in both ways doesn't it ? You are failing to deliver what the community asks since 3 years. I like how Tallest responds in that blog saying "I" want to make some changes dude change away what ever you like soon you will play it as a network game. And you might rethink you strategies because you guys might have a surprise when Diablo 3 will be released. I play this game for 8 years in each year you bring only disappointment to the community you encourage blobs all the time. YOU as CCP made this game a BLOB FEST.

Remember the upper you get the bigger is the fall.

Pointless to say anything to people like Vile Rat and Mittani they are people that think they are always right.
CSM members should be people with extensive knowledge about game mechanics and with good ideas CCP should recruit them through interviews/test not to put 5000 goons to vote them.

This is my opinion and how i had to put up to YOUR CHANGES patch after patch now you put up with My OPINION.
algorythm
Evolution
Northern Coalition.
#2474 - 2011-11-17 21:45:04 UTC  |  Edited by: algorythm
This makes me think about posting something on the lines of:

Will sell 100M SP supercap char with nyx for a couple of plexes. or extra quafe

This is just another step by CCP on making people who play the game for years to leave it.

Just a reminder dear CCP, Supercaps are hard to build, hard to fit, and on top they require a dedicated pilot to fly them, why the hell wont they be Super?!

From this day forward I shall call my Nyx Willy and will reffer to supercaps has littlecaps.

P.S. I've always called her willy Bear
xxxak
Perkone
Caldari State
#2475 - 2011-11-17 21:48:08 UTC
Suiteii wrote:
I love the changes.

Even for small alliances, the natural escalation of a fight will be as follows:

- Subcap fleet A (SF-A) engages subcap fleet B (SF-B)

- Subcap fleet A (SF-A) drops triage carrier to support the fleet.

- Subcap fleet B (SF-B) drops dreadnought + carrier to counter triage carrier from SF-A

- Subcap fleet A (SF-A) drops mothership to counter dreadnought + carrier from SF-B

- Subcap Fleet B (SF-B) drops titan to counter mothership.

This is how Eve was meant to be played.
Blobbing is an unforunate side-effect of Eve, but it happens. If you wanted even 10v10 fights matched isk for isk... you can try every other game on the market.

Having a mothership won't mean "I win" anymore. It's merely adding another tier to the escalation process.

As it is currently, you can just skipp this whole escalation process:

- SF-A warps in to SF-B

- SF-B drops a mothership.

- Over.

With the new changes, when SF-B drops its MOM, SF-A can still win with superior fighting ability/numbers


Are you a noob? Have you ever been in a 0.0 alliance?

People don't deploy caps (much less supers) as you just outlined. It simply does not happen that way.

lol..........

[u]The nerfs to supercaps will cause more super pilots to join the largest alliances who can properly "support" their deployment, further concentrating firepower/wealth in EVE. The end result will be fewer "fun" fights, and will hurt EVE in the long run.[/u]
xxxak
Perkone
Caldari State
#2476 - 2011-11-17 21:51:54 UTC
The most egregious change is the fact that Supercarriers cannot even carry a full flight of fighters and fighter bombers.

That is simply silly and insulting. I would rather have the ships taken out of the game, and receive a full reimbursement.

But beyond that, and mark my words, these changes on the whole simply mean that supers will ONLY be flown in HUGE blobs.

They will be used less, which might or might not be good for EVE, but when they are used, they will be used in ways that newer/weaker players find even MORE unfair.

[u]The nerfs to supercaps will cause more super pilots to join the largest alliances who can properly "support" their deployment, further concentrating firepower/wealth in EVE. The end result will be fewer "fun" fights, and will hurt EVE in the long run.[/u]
Suiteii
Raven's Flight
#2477 - 2011-11-17 21:57:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Suiteii
xxxak wrote:
Suiteii wrote:
I love the changes.

Even for small alliances, the natural escalation of a fight will be as follows:

- Subcap fleet A (SF-A) engages subcap fleet B (SF-B)

- Subcap fleet A (SF-A) drops triage carrier to support the fleet.

- Subcap fleet B (SF-B) drops dreadnought + carrier to counter triage carrier from SF-A

- Subcap fleet A (SF-A) drops mothership to counter dreadnought + carrier from SF-B

- Subcap Fleet B (SF-B) drops titan to counter mothership.

This is how Eve was meant to be played.
Blobbing is an unforunate side-effect of Eve, but it happens. If you wanted even 10v10 fights matched isk for isk... you can try every other game on the market.

Having a mothership won't mean "I win" anymore. It's merely adding another tier to the escalation process.

As it is currently, you can just skipp this whole escalation process:

- SF-A warps in to SF-B

- SF-B drops a mothership.

- Over.

With the new changes, when SF-B drops its MOM, SF-A can still win with superior fighting ability/numbers


Are you a noob? Have you ever been in a 0.0 alliance?

People don't deploy caps (much less supers) as you just outlined. It simply does not happen that way.

lol..........



Exactly. They drop MOMs because there's no point to anything else.....

PS. Yes. I fought in the NC war. As per the last part of my post. Fights were decided by who had more supercaps under the cyno blocker.

Edit: in case it wasnt clear. With these changes it's actually possible for a subcap fleet to go in under a cyno blocker, and take out said blocker without a fleet of MOMs/titans to **** your face.
Edsback
MineOne
#2478 - 2011-11-17 22:00:11 UTC
xxxak wrote:
The most egregious change is the fact that Supercarriers cannot even carry a full flight of fighters and fighter bombers.

That is simply silly and insulting. I would rather have the ships taken out of the game, and receive a full reimbursement.

But beyond that, and mark my words, these changes on the whole simply mean that supers will ONLY be flown in HUGE blobs.

They will be used less, which might or might not be good for EVE, but when they are used, they will be used in ways that newer/weaker players find even MORE unfair.

something that have not been said in any of the blogs is that after this hurf super carrier will need more drone bay parts in order to make them, yes i said more drone bays so try and work that one out.

also due to having the drone bay taken away from titans and dreds ccp have added more parts to what is needed to make up for the change so if you where thinking dreds and titan build cost will be lower due to this you are wrong.
Edsback
MineOne
#2479 - 2011-11-17 22:02:43 UTC
great job ccp now back to this thread for more good nights of fits and giggles
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2480 - 2011-11-17 22:14:33 UTC
S8nt wrote:
A simple RL example:
…which by very definition of “RL” is completely irrelevant to EVE balancing.
Quote:
By making the changes to the ships and log of mechanics you are forcing corps and alliances to stay away from them, if they cannot fund or support them
Good. That's the goal here: get a support fleet, or die.
Quote:
Please listen to reason
They did. That's why the all-in-one-mobiles are getting nerfed to the point where they need some support ships to survive. It's the reasonable thing to do.