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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1981 - 2013-10-24 17:03:35 UTC
Coincidently enough, 4 unbonused lasers do about the same amount of DPS a the lost drone.
Remove the Turret hardpoints and please give us back our drones.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Deacon Abox
Black Eagle5
#1982 - 2013-10-24 17:08:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Deacon Abox
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Because these are still not on SISI I substituted it with a myrmidon. Its 6th low was a Nanofiber Internal structure.

I ran a Serpentis annex (not sure how they compare to a 6/10 TBH)
When fit for all in one exploration with an onmi tank, did ok but had trouble when it got too much agro.
When fit for combat and rat specific tanking, it did better but ultimately failed.

Pretty creative to use a Myrm. But, this is where you failed to account for the power of a resist bonus I think. Blink Regardless, yes, we really can't know until these things are available for testing.

edit - and for pvp they'll probably just be asb'd despite the armor resist bonus Ugh

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1983 - 2013-10-24 17:09:53 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Coincidently enough, 4 unbonused lasers do about the same amount of DPS a the lost drone.
Remove the Turret hardpoints and please give us back our drones.


Agreed. Why give it split weapon bonuses in the first place?

... Armour bonuses (amarr) and drone bonuses (gallente) along with the specialized ability to use a cover cloak was already enough to qualify it as a pirate faction cruiser.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1984 - 2013-10-24 17:10:30 UTC
Deacon Abox wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Because these are still not on SISI I substituted it with a myrmidon. Its 6th low was a Nanofiber Internal structure.

I ran a Serpentis annex (not sure how they compare to a 6/10 TBH)
When fit for all in one exploration with an onmi tank, did ok but had trouble when it got too much agro.
When fit for combat and rat specific tanking, it did better but ultimately failed.

Pretty creative to use a Myrm. But, this is where you failed to account for the power of a resist bonus I think. Blink Regardless, yes, we really can't know until these things are available for testing.

to a certain degree, the 7.5% rep bonus per level equates to the same amount of EHP/s

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1985 - 2013-10-24 17:13:23 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Coincidently enough, 4 unbonused lasers do about the same amount of DPS a the lost drone.
Remove the Turret hardpoints and please give us back our drones.


Agreed. Why give it split weapon bonuses in the first place?

... Armour bonuses (amarr) and drone bonuses (gallente) along with the specialized ability to use a cover cloak was already enough to qualify it as a pirate faction cruiser.


as massively OP more like
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1986 - 2013-10-24 17:32:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Omnathious Deninard
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Coincidently enough, 4 unbonused lasers do about the same amount of DPS a the lost drone.
Remove the Turret hardpoints and please give us back our drones.


Agreed. Why give it split weapon bonuses in the first place?

... Armour bonuses (amarr) and drone bonuses (gallente) along with the specialized ability to use a cover cloak was already enough to qualify it as a pirate faction cruiser.


as massively OP more like

if it would be OP with 5 drones and no turrets, how is it not with 4 drones and 4 turrets when the DPS is almost the same.

The premise behind the OP drone blaster setup will not change, because it relied on your target being double webbed and scrambled.

Removing the turrets wipes out the possibility to make OP blaster fits.

And just to be safe, for those who will say drop it down to 2 turret hardpoints and give it a 100% laser damage.
that will get you 833 DPS and 2 neutralizers. much much worse than 5 large drones and a covert ops cloaking device.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
luredivino
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#1987 - 2013-10-24 17:36:07 UTC
Should have taken the turrets away. Running anything with 4 drones is terrible. It is why drone proteus doesn't work. You made this ship go from exciting to sitting in people's hanger.



On a side note. If you are going to make people lose skill points and pay 500 million isk for a cruiser. It better be overpowered.
TehCloud
Guardians of the Dodixie
#1988 - 2013-10-24 17:36:10 UTC
Give it back the 125mbit, make a bonus to Light medium and heavy drones, not bonusing sentries to prevent sentry abuse.
Remove the Laser Bonus for Heavy Drone speed. Or a gun damage bonus at least.

My Condor costs less than that module!
Sven Viko VIkolander
In space we are briefly free
#1989 - 2013-10-24 17:45:48 UTC
Whether I am fine with the change partly depends on what the cost will be now. However, a better change, IMO, is to remove the laser bonus and one of the turret high slots and give back the 125ms drone bandwidth. This makes it more useful for exploration but less of an OP gank ship than it originally was.

However, even if it stays with the 100ms bandwidth it still has (when armor tanked) this advantage over a cloaky Proteus: 5 mids. This allows for a much great range of fitting options, such as dual-web versions that will be nice for solo, and a huge variety of E-war fittings.
Unt0rten
Scrubnuts
#1990 - 2013-10-24 17:51:49 UTC
So, no cloak bonus on cruiser?
Black Canary Jnr
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1991 - 2013-10-24 18:00:26 UTC
Dear CCP,

I'm very upset that you nerfed a ship that isn't in the game yet, it is TOTALLY UNVIABLE now. I'm also very upset that i have to train lasers and there are no missile slots. Please make this ship OP again so it makes sense to use it, balance sucks.

Yours,

Cry baby McMoanerson.


I'll be flying one if i can get enough ISK. Good work CCP. Cloak, scanning bonus and enough tank to hold down a few ships will make it a very nice C-probing scout that is a cheaper alternative to a T3. They will still be popular for dropping too, i imagine.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1992 - 2013-10-24 18:00:55 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
CCP Rise wrote:
Alright, after a lot of feedback and discussion I'm going to share what will likely be the last set of tweaks to the Stratios and Astero before launch.

We feel that while there are significant weaknesses in the cruiser that do balance it against major abuse, it's simply too strong in its current state. The combination of the covert cloak, black ops portal access and extremely high damage potential make for a ship that does a bit more than we are comfortable with. To tone it down slightly we are going to lower the drone bandwidth to 100mb/s and the drone bay to 400m3.

The ship will still have very high damage potential and will certainly still be very powerful overall.

This also makes me feel better about some other small changes that improve the ship, so we'll also be increasing the virus strength bonus to +10 and changing the laser cap use bonus to a medium energy turret optimal range bonus of 50%. We will also extend the virus strength bonus to the Astero.

Please post with feedback, but keep in mind that these changes are made after processing tons of feedback from the forums, my visit to EVE Vegas and a lot of internal discussion.

Thanks

Excellent changes. Couldn't have been done better. It's great to see you guys listening to feedback.

The original was a cloaky solowtfpwnmobile. This iteration, while quite powerful, isn't op.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1993 - 2013-10-24 18:06:09 UTC
I am not sure why you guys are so hung up on the whole "100 mbps drone bandwidth" thing. So what if it can only launch 4 sentries? How does this negatively affect anyone? I mean, I guess if you were to dedicate a character to exclusively flying this ship and had trained Drones 5, you might find some way to take some level of offense over having trained Drones 5 unnecessarily, but at rank 1 it's not exactly a whole boatload of training time at 256k SP.

This change was necessary and brings the ship more in line with competing options in the Sin and Ishtar. If you can't find a use for a covert cloaking cruiser with a myriad of effective gank and hotdrop fits doing 600-700 DPS across a wide berth of effective application ranges, I think you need to close the Proteus window on EFT and remove the whiteout on your monitor over the "weapon range" column and think a little more about it.

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Johan March
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1994 - 2013-10-24 18:08:48 UTC
I, too, like the changes.
Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
#1995 - 2013-10-24 18:09:27 UTC
Deacon Abox wrote:

It's because drones can't be killed and can be overheated to do stupidly op damage . . Ugh Seriously though the -1 slot on drone ships doesn't bother me as much as the squishy-ness of drones themselves. Even when you have a 10% per level hp bonus on them they die all too easily. Drones on a ship (like my comet :( ) that doesn't have a drone hp bonus melt in no time. Maybe the balancing team could increase the base hp stats for drones a little?Idea

However, I agree with Fozzie's decision to drop the bandwidth to 100. Having a cov ops cloak and 125 bandwidth would basically obsolete the Ishtar.


Fair enough. Return the 125 bandwidth and drop the ability to cyno.

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PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1996 - 2013-10-24 18:11:19 UTC
Querns wrote:
I am not sure why you guys are so hung up on the whole "100 mbps drone bandwidth" thing. So what if it can only launch 4 sentries? How does this negatively affect anyone? I mean, I guess if you were to dedicate a character to exclusively flying this ship and had trained Drones 5, you might find some way to take some level of offense over having trained Drones 5 unnecessarily, but at rank 1 it's not exactly a whole boatload of training time at 256k SP.

This change was necessary and brings the ship more in line with competing options in the Sin and Ishtar. If you can't find a use for a covert cloaking cruiser with a myriad of effective gank and hotdrop fits doing 600-700 DPS across a wide berth of effective application ranges, I think you need to close the Proteus window on EFT and remove the whiteout on your monitor over the "weapon range" column and think a little more about it.

Some people wanted to run 7/10's in a covops ishtar and make bank, completely ignoring the fact that doing so is pretty unbalanced. That's what many people got hung up on.
Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
#1997 - 2013-10-24 18:15:53 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Querns wrote:
I am not sure why you guys are so hung up on the whole "100 mbps drone bandwidth" thing. So what if it can only launch 4 sentries? How does this negatively affect anyone? I mean, I guess if you were to dedicate a character to exclusively flying this ship and had trained Drones 5, you might find some way to take some level of offense over having trained Drones 5 unnecessarily, but at rank 1 it's not exactly a whole boatload of training time at 256k SP.

This change was necessary and brings the ship more in line with competing options in the Sin and Ishtar. If you can't find a use for a covert cloaking cruiser with a myriad of effective gank and hotdrop fits doing 600-700 DPS across a wide berth of effective application ranges, I think you need to close the Proteus window on EFT and remove the whiteout on your monitor over the "weapon range" column and think a little more about it.

Some people wanted to run 7/10's in a covops ishtar and make bank, completely ignoring the fact that doing so is pretty unbalanced. That's what many people got hung up on.


Um, actually, 6/10s as suggested in the OP.

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Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1998 - 2013-10-24 18:16:14 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Querns wrote:
I am not sure why you guys are so hung up on the whole "100 mbps drone bandwidth" thing. So what if it can only launch 4 sentries? How does this negatively affect anyone? I mean, I guess if you were to dedicate a character to exclusively flying this ship and had trained Drones 5, you might find some way to take some level of offense over having trained Drones 5 unnecessarily, but at rank 1 it's not exactly a whole boatload of training time at 256k SP.

This change was necessary and brings the ship more in line with competing options in the Sin and Ishtar. If you can't find a use for a covert cloaking cruiser with a myriad of effective gank and hotdrop fits doing 600-700 DPS across a wide berth of effective application ranges, I think you need to close the Proteus window on EFT and remove the whiteout on your monitor over the "weapon range" column and think a little more about it.

Some people wanted to run 7/10's in a covops ishtar and make bank, completely ignoring the fact that doing so is pretty unbalanced. That's what many people got hung up on.

Let me know when they give the ship 7.5% per level to the tracking of heavy drone and sentries and 7.5% to the optimal range of sentries plus 7.5% to the MWD velocity of heavy drones plus T2 resistances.

until then I don't quite think this ship is Ishtar levels of performance.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Saeka Tyr
Sanctuary of Shadows
#1999 - 2013-10-24 18:18:41 UTC
Well that's an absolute shame. Why don't we try it with 125m^3 bandwidth as designed for a bit before nerfing it hugely? It hasn't even been SEEDED onto the test server yet!
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2000 - 2013-10-24 18:19:47 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Tzar Sinak wrote:

Um, actually, 6/10s as suggested in the OP.

The adjusted stratios has no issues running a 6/10. It won't be the fastest ship to run a 6/10, but it will run it just fine. Nor should a covops ship be better at blitzing 6/10's than dedicated non-cloaky combat ships.
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

until then I don't quite think this ship is Ishtar levels of performance.

Good, It should never have been close. In it's current iteration the stratios runs 6/10's just fine. Working as intended.