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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Author
Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
#1961 - 2013-10-24 16:08:25 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
both ships need to lose a mid slot to be balanced and to be fair too other drone boats .. the whole -1 slot for a drone boat

Losing a mid slot would wreck them for exploration.


hardly

Prop mod
Data Analyzer
Relic analyzer
cargo scanner
capacitor booster

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#1962 - 2013-10-24 16:11:12 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
both ships need to lose a mid slot to be balanced and to be fair too other drone boats .. the whole -1 slot for a drone boat

Losing a mid slot would wreck them for exploration.


hardly

Prop mod
Data Analyzer
Relic analyzer
cargo scanner
capacitor booster


why cap booster?
cargo scanner is surely optional

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
#1963 - 2013-10-24 16:13:03 UTC
Harvey James wrote:


why cap booster?
cargo scanner is surely optional

Cap booster to deal with neutralizers, which come up in complexes and from pirates who want to kill you.
A cargo scanner is needed due to the loot spew from relic and data sites.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Akrasjel Lanate
Lanate Industries
#1964 - 2013-10-24 16:13:56 UTC
I would like it to be 125 bandwidth insted the 100 Sad


CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#1965 - 2013-10-24 16:18:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Harvey James wrote:


why cap booster?
cargo scanner is surely optional

Cap booster to deal with neutralizers, which come up in complexes and from pirates who want to kill you.
A cargo scanner is needed due to the loot spew from relic and data sites.


ive done sites and you hardly have enough time to catch the loot before it disappears and they are normally named as to what they are so you know what to go for anyway... and further more armour ships never have the same amount of mids and low slots.
and ofc droneships are -1 slots

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

mynnna
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1966 - 2013-10-24 16:19:05 UTC  |  Edited by: mynnna
Rek Seven wrote:


My cloaky proteus can do 719 dps with a 78k tank while having the ability to web and scram a target.


The fact that you see nothing wrong with a faction fit, implanted cruiser that cloaks, does 720 DPS (albeit at point blank range only), has an 80k EHP tank and gets a bonus to scram range existing at all, much less being used as a baseline for what is balanced, only proves my point.


e: Incidentally, I can fit a Stratios to deal 722 DPS at ranges greater than "point blank" with 52k EHP and the ability to web and scram a target and fit ECCM or other utility mids that the Proteus can't.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
#1967 - 2013-10-24 16:33:50 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Harvey James wrote:


why cap booster?
cargo scanner is surely optional

Cap booster to deal with neutralizers, which come up in complexes and from pirates who want to kill you.
A cargo scanner is needed due to the loot spew from relic and data sites.


ive done sites and you hardly have enough time to catch the loot before it disappears and they are normally named as to what they are so you know what to go for anyway... and further more armour ships never have the same amount of mids and low slots.
and ofc droneships are -1 slots


Interesting. Are pirate drone ships -1 slot? Is CCP Rise forced to -1 slot? Is there a rule somewhere about that?

Please return the 125 bandwidth.

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Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#1968 - 2013-10-24 16:37:38 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Alright, after a lot of feedback and discussion I'm going to share what will likely be the last set of tweaks to the Stratios and Astero before launch.

We feel that while there are significant weaknesses in the cruiser that do balance it against major abuse, it's simply too strong in its current state. The combination of the covert cloak, black ops portal access and extremely high damage potential make for a ship that does a bit more than we are comfortable with. To tone it down slightly we are going to lower the drone bandwidth to 100mb/s and the drone bay to 400m3.

The ship will still have very high damage potential and will certainly still be very powerful overall.

This also makes me feel better about some other small changes that improve the ship, so we'll also be increasing the virus strength bonus to +10 and changing the laser cap use bonus to a medium energy turret optimal range bonus of 50%. We will also extend the virus strength bonus to the Astero.

Please post with feedback, but keep in mind that these changes are made after processing tons of feedback from the forums, my visit to EVE Vegas and a lot of internal discussion.

Thanks


Good changes, thanks.

The Tears Must Flow

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#1969 - 2013-10-24 16:37:53 UTC
Tzar Sinak wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Harvey James wrote:


why cap booster?
cargo scanner is surely optional

Cap booster to deal with neutralizers, which come up in complexes and from pirates who want to kill you.
A cargo scanner is needed due to the loot spew from relic and data sites.


ive done sites and you hardly have enough time to catch the loot before it disappears and they are normally named as to what they are so you know what to go for anyway... and further more armour ships never have the same amount of mids and low slots.
and ofc droneships are -1 slots


Interesting. Are pirate drone ships -1 slot? Is CCP Rise forced to -1 slot? Is there a rule somewhere about that?

Please return the 125 bandwidth.


well unless all pirate ships are going to get +1 slot over Navy ships then yes ..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#1970 - 2013-10-24 16:41:12 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
mynnna wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:

You had the chance to mix things up in wormhole pvp a little with these new ships but this most recent change makes is utterly impractical. Most of the cloaky T3's will be able to out-dps this ship while having double the tank and stronger ew ability/defense.


I hope that CCP nerfs T3s into the ground so people like you stop pretending "ridiculous tank for a cruiser combined with capabilities that match or exceed their Tech II counterparts" is a reasonable metric for balancing.


Also, four ogres alone match or exceed everything but a max DPS covert HAM tengu and the proteus, and it can easily exceed both, so you're wrong on the DPS factor anyway.


I don't think you know what you are talking about really. If CCP nerf t3s into the ground, it will destroy wormhole pvp or just turn it into a blob fest like in k-space.

My cloaky proteus can do 719 dps with a 78k tank while having the ability to web and scram a target. The Stration might be able to reach that damage by wrongly fitting it with a shield tank but it will still be a piece of shite that is only good for ganking and blobbing. If you fit it correctly with an armour tank and drone tracking mods, you will be lucky to get 500 applied dps out of it.

For your information, no T3 can outperform a T2 ship in it's specialized role. Personally, i think the standard Tech 3 fits are fine but if you don't agree, you are entitled to that opinion.


Can't wait for the T3 rebalance, you are in for a major shock :) T3 are supposed to be swiss knifes, not Conan Swords.

The Tears Must Flow

Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#1971 - 2013-10-24 16:42:21 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
and ofc droneships are -1 slots
I'd still like a satisfactory answer as to why drone ships are -1 slot count. If its because of the tired argument that drones offer utility, then the obvious argument there is that ships that have primary weapon systems other than drones are afforded a tremendous amount more utility with their drones, because they don't have to sacrifice any damage potential in order to use utility drones. Yet, drone ships that use drones as their primary weapon system have to say "ok, I'm going to not do any damage and use EC drones instead." Why is it that a Drake, for example, can use all 6 launchers AND a flight of EC drones AND get +1 slot count over a similarly-classed drone ship?

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Rek Seven
The Persuaders
#1972 - 2013-10-24 16:43:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
mynnna wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:


My cloaky proteus can do 719 dps with a 78k tank while having the ability to web and scram a target.


The fact that you see nothing wrong with a faction fit, implanted cruiser that cloaks, does 720 DPS (albeit at point blank range only), has an 80k EHP tank and gets a bonus to scram range existing at all, much less being used as a baseline for what is balanced, only proves my point.


e: Incidentally, I can fit a Stratios to deal 722 DPS at ranges greater than "point blank" with 52k EHP and the ability to web and scram a target and fit ECCM.


No it doesn't prove anything apart from the fact that you have a different opinion than mine.

I fly in a part of space where t3s are used almost exclusively so i'm fully aware of their strengths and weaknesses, so i'm not about to get into an off topic argument with someone who probably doesn't have the the perspective of a wormholer.
mynnna
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1973 - 2013-10-24 16:44:46 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
mynnna wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:


My cloaky proteus can do 719 dps with a 78k tank while having the ability to web and scram a target.


The fact that you see nothing wrong with a faction fit, implanted cruiser that cloaks, does 720 DPS (albeit at point blank range only), has an 80k EHP tank and gets a bonus to scram range existing at all, much less being used as a baseline for what is balanced, only proves my point.


e: Incidentally, I can fit a Stratios to deal 722 DPS at ranges greater than "point blank" with 52k EHP and the ability to web and scram a target and fit ECCM.


No it doesn't prove anything apart from the fact that you have a different opinion than mine.

I fly in a part of space where t3s are used almost exclusively so i'm fully aware of their strengths and weaknesses, so i'm not about to get into an off topic argument with someone who probably doesn't have the the perspective of a wormholer.






The ~wormhole perspective~ doesn't justify things being OP any more than anyone else's perspective does, sorry.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Tenaris Zeratul
General Megadrive Corp.
#1974 - 2013-10-24 16:46:05 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
changing the laser cap use bonus to a medium energy turret optimal range bonus of 50%. We will also extend the virus strength bonus to the Astero.




So it's gone from a fairly racial neutral ship to basically being a Amarr force recon. Lame as hell.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#1975 - 2013-10-24 16:46:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaju Enki
Rek Seven wrote:
mynnna wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:


My cloaky proteus can do 719 dps with a 78k tank while having the ability to web and scram a target.


The fact that you see nothing wrong with a faction fit, implanted cruiser that cloaks, does 720 DPS (albeit at point blank range only), has an 80k EHP tank and gets a bonus to scram range existing at all, much less being used as a baseline for what is balanced, only proves my point.


e: Incidentally, I can fit a Stratios to deal 722 DPS at ranges greater than "point blank" with 52k EHP and the ability to web and scram a target and fit ECCM.


No it doesn't prove anything apart from the fact that you have a different opinion than mine, it just shows that you have a different definition of OP.

I fly in a part of space where t3s are used almost exclusively so i'm fully aware of their strengths and weaknesses, so i'm not about to get into an off topic argument with someone who probably doesn't have the the perspective of a wormholer.


Good thing you are not in charge then, powercreep is bad in sandbox mmo-rpg's, and T3 are overpowered. T3 should be swiss knifes, not Conan Swords.

The Tears Must Flow

Rek Seven
The Persuaders
#1976 - 2013-10-24 16:47:37 UTC
mynnna wrote:

The ~wormhole perspective~ doesn't justify things being OP any more than anyone else's perspective does, sorry.


It being OP is a matter of opinion. From my experience they are not OP for multiple reasons... sorry?
Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
#1977 - 2013-10-24 16:54:42 UTC
Because these are still not on SISI I substituted it with a myrmidon. Its 6th low was a Nanofiber Internal structure.

I ran a Serpentis annex (not sure how they compare to a 6/10 TBH)
When fit for all in one exploration with an onmi tank, did ok but had trouble when it got too much agro.
When fit for combat and rat specific tanking, it did better but ultimately failed.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Kellath Eladrel
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1978 - 2013-10-24 16:55:45 UTC
That's why you have to vote for CSM who agree with your views. Otherwise you get a bunch of null bears who are like omg ccp t3 so op!

Five card stud, nothing wild, and the sky's the limit.

Rek Seven
The Persuaders
#1979 - 2013-10-24 16:59:52 UTC
I voted for chitsa and james so hopefully they will explain how wrong the t3 hating CSM members are Blink
Deacon Abox
Black Eagle5
Villore Accords
#1980 - 2013-10-24 17:03:31 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
and ofc droneships are -1 slots
I'd still like a satisfactory answer as to why drone ships are -1 slot count. If its because of the tired argument that drones offer utility, then the obvious argument there is that ships that have primary weapon systems other than drones are afforded a tremendous amount more utility with their drones, because they don't have to sacrifice any damage potential in order to use utility drones. Yet, drone ships that use drones as their primary weapon system have to say "ok, I'm going to not do any damage and use EC drones instead." Why is it that a Drake, for example, can use all 6 launchers AND a flight of EC drones AND get +1 slot count over a similarly-classed drone ship?

It's because drones can't be killed and can be overheated to do stupidly op damage . . Ugh Seriously though the -1 slot on drone ships doesn't bother me as much as the squishy-ness of drones themselves. Even when you have a 10% per level hp bonus on them they die all too easily. Drones on a ship (like my comet :( ) that doesn't have a drone hp bonus melt in no time. Maybe the balancing team could increase the base hp stats for drones a little?Idea

However, I agree with Fozzie's decision to drop the bandwidth to 100. Having a cov ops cloak and 125 bandwidth would basically obsolete the Ishtar.

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.