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Dev Blog: No Honor Among Thieves - Siphon Units in Rubicon

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Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1261 - 2013-10-22 12:23:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
Saeka Tyr wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Hangon why if pos's are so passive do I need to spend on average 10hrs pw ( over half the average persons online time) managing my pos's?



other than "picking up materials that accumulated while sleeping" and "putting in more fuel", there really isn't much else for you to do.

Confirming POSes never get attacked and don't need a fleet to defend.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1262 - 2013-10-22 14:36:48 UTC
Miner Hottie wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Miner Hottie wrote:
Great enjoy emptying them every 25 hours, unless someone else empties it first. Passive fun and games.

Do you really think there will be syphons that survive for 24hrs?? I'd be surprised if there were many lasted more than 12.

But the poses are afkkkkkkk and passiveeeeee


The cognitive dissonance in this thread is approaching the levels of a creationist like Ray Comfort being confronted with samples from the Lenski e.coli experiments.

shrug

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#1263 - 2013-10-22 14:43:06 UTC
- There needs to be more randomness then just "first place, first stealer". If there are 10 siphon units around a POS, they should be processed in a random ordering each hour.

- There should be some sort of selector that lets you pick whether to focus on processed or raw materials to siphon off.

- Waste should be a random amount that hovers around 20% for a small unit in a bell-curve distribution. So you might lose 30% on one cycle at worst, or only 10% at best, but it will average out to 20% over the long run.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#1264 - 2013-10-22 14:54:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
Fine with the mechanic, they just should not be usable/dropable by 1 day trial alt character.

1) Should be a requirement that the person be in a corporation to drop the item (pickup could care less, but to set it up the person should be a non-npc corp character).

2) Should be a non-trial account.

3) The non-trial account issue can be easily addressed by requiring the person deploying the unit to have anchoring level 4. Anchoring skill cannot be trained on a trial account, which would address that issue. Anchoring level 4 is a decent midway, and most people can train it up in all of 3 days.

Yes I know these things don't need to be anchored, but having the anchoring skill should be a requirement to drop them.

There "probably" should be a cap on how many 1 person can deploy in a 24 hour period. Because having 1 person drop off 120 of these in a hour time-span might be a little.. well ridiculous, but that is a different argument. Long as 1 through 3 are addressed, should be fine with it.

Yaay!!!!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1265 - 2013-10-22 16:10:10 UTC
Hmm… 30 pages of questions and worries and no additional dev response. Straight
Falin Whalen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1266 - 2013-10-22 17:01:17 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Hmm… 30 pages of questions and worries and no additional dev response. Straight

Maybe, they are going, "We should probably rethink this?" but who am I kidding it's CCP. They are like, "Release it as is, we'll deal with how unbalanced/broken it is in a point release SOON(tm)."

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#1267 - 2013-10-22 17:25:38 UTC
The people in charge of sacking the people in charge of this idea have been sacked.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Equaniox Maluran
Fractal Dynamics
Psycho Unicorn Squad
#1268 - 2013-10-22 17:56:36 UTC
Are siphons going to generate killmails?
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#1269 - 2013-10-22 19:05:06 UTC
Equaniox Maluran wrote:
Are siphons going to generate killmails?

Yes

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1270 - 2013-10-22 19:29:14 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Tippia wrote:
Hmm… 30 pages of Goon Tears and no additional dev response. Straight

FTFY.

The last 30 pages have mostly been a CFC whine and cheese reception. Page by page, every page.

Geee, I wonder why the entity that holds most of the valuable moons would be opposed to a nerf leveled squarely at moon holders. Roll

TBH, it reminds me of all the PL and Raiden tears on the forums after the Super nerf. Man, the nerf bat's a bich, aint it? Cool
Omega Flames
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1271 - 2013-10-22 20:16:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Omega Flames
Miner Hottie wrote:
Saeka Tyr wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Hangon why if pos's are so passive do I need to spend on average 10hrs pw ( over half the average persons online time) managing my pos's?



other than "picking up materials that accumulated while sleeping" and "putting in more fuel", there really isn't much else for you to do.


These mythical self anchoring, assembling, linking and on-lining POS's whom do I acquire them off?

those are available in rens. thou you might want to swing by amarr for the self-hauling-product-to-jita-and-fuel-back-from-jita ones and i hear tales that dodixie has a few that self-refine-alchemy.
Miner Hottie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1272 - 2013-10-22 22:52:36 UTC
Omega Flames wrote:
Miner Hottie wrote:
Saeka Tyr wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Hangon why if pos's are so passive do I need to spend on average 10hrs pw ( over half the average persons online time) managing my pos's?



other than "picking up materials that accumulated while sleeping" and "putting in more fuel", there really isn't much else for you to do.


These mythical self anchoring, assembling, linking and on-lining POS's whom do I acquire them off?

those are available in rens. thou you might want to swing by amarr for the self-hauling-product-to-jita-and-fuel-back-from-jita ones and i hear tales that dodixie has a few that self-refine-alchemy.


Do that still have do that special on the self assembling POSs were if you buy 5 of them and 50 SOMER blink tickets, you get an Ishuknoe Watch Scorpion?

It's all about how hot my mining lasers get.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1273 - 2013-10-22 23:27:34 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
- There needs to be more randomness then just "first place, first stealer". If there are 10 siphon units around a POS, they should be processed in a random ordering each hour.

- There should be some sort of selector that lets you pick whether to focus on processed or raw materials to siphon off.

- Waste should be a random amount that hovers around 20% for a small unit in a bell-curve distribution. So you might lose 30% on one cycle at worst, or only 10% at best, but it will average out to 20% over the long run.


Why would you bother putting 10 syphons around a pos?? 2 will shut down the average pos and as there would not be enough materials in the cycle to be taken, 8 of the syphons would get nothing.
Or maybe it should be as you say evened out, if there are more than 2 syphons on the same hourly cycle - none of them get anything because there is not enough to give them all a cycle, are syphons smart enough to share and take less than its 60 units?. This would meant they work similar to a pos. If there is not enough product for a cycle, the cycle does not run.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#1274 - 2013-10-22 23:34:07 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
- There needs to be more randomness then just "first place, first stealer". If there are 10 siphon units around a POS, they should be processed in a random ordering each hour.

- There should be some sort of selector that lets you pick whether to focus on processed or raw materials to siphon off.

- Waste should be a random amount that hovers around 20% for a small unit in a bell-curve distribution. So you might lose 30% on one cycle at worst, or only 10% at best, but it will average out to 20% over the long run.


Why would you bother putting 10 syphons around a pos?? 2 will shut down the average pos and as there would not be enough materials in the cycle to be taken, 8 of the syphons would get nothing.
Or maybe it should be as you say evened out, if there are more than 2 syphons on the same hourly cycle - none of them get anything because there is not enough to give them all a cycle, are syphons smart enough to share and take less than its 60 units?. This would meant they work similar to a pos. If there is not enough product for a cycle, the cycle does not run.



It takes 24 hours to fill a siphon up, if you put 10, you don't have to come back every day and empty, they should fill in sucession
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#1275 - 2013-10-22 23:35:30 UTC
To ANYONE upset about these siphon units

Medium and Heavy units are next

They will target advanced components from complex reactions as well as fullerines

You might as well save some tears for that...
Orakkus
ImperiaI Federation
Goonswarm Federation
#1276 - 2013-10-22 23:36:26 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:
To ANYONE upset about these siphon units

Medium and Heavy units are next

They will target advanced components from complex reactions as well as fullerines

You might as well save some tears for that...


Was this info given out at Eve Vegas, or is there some other place we could confirm?

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1277 - 2013-10-22 23:44:26 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Hmm… 30 pages of Goon Tears and no additional dev response. Straight

FTFY.

The last 30 pages have mostly been a CFC whine and cheese reception. Page by page, every page.

Geee, I wonder why the entity that holds most of the valuable moons would be opposed to a nerf leveled squarely at moon holders. Roll

TBH, it reminds me of all the PL and Raiden tears on the forums after the Super nerf. Man, the nerf bat's a bich, aint it? Cool

30 pages of whining?? I've been following this thread pretty closely and only seen a few posts from a couple of different goons. None of which was complaining about the mechanic and why would they it is only going to make their moons more valuable. Goons won't be targeted in any major way by syphons.

I still believe syphons should require the person running it to be online, in system and uncloaked. Thieves should not simply be handed the win by spending 10 mil isk, there should be some risk involved (aside from losing the 10 mil isk)

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1278 - 2013-10-22 23:45:56 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:
To ANYONE upset about these siphon units

Medium and Heavy units are next

They will target advanced components from complex reactions as well as fullerines

You might as well save some tears for that...
I'll have packed up my operation by the time they get released if the mechanic isn't fixed to a workable standard.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1279 - 2013-10-22 23:47:46 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
- There needs to be more randomness then just "first place, first stealer". If there are 10 siphon units around a POS, they should be processed in a random ordering each hour.

- There should be some sort of selector that lets you pick whether to focus on processed or raw materials to siphon off.

- Waste should be a random amount that hovers around 20% for a small unit in a bell-curve distribution. So you might lose 30% on one cycle at worst, or only 10% at best, but it will average out to 20% over the long run.


Why would you bother putting 10 syphons around a pos?? 2 will shut down the average pos and as there would not be enough materials in the cycle to be taken, 8 of the syphons would get nothing.
Or maybe it should be as you say evened out, if there are more than 2 syphons on the same hourly cycle - none of them get anything because there is not enough to give them all a cycle, are syphons smart enough to share and take less than its 60 units?. This would meant they work similar to a pos. If there is not enough product for a cycle, the cycle does not run.



It takes 24 hours to fill a siphon up, if you put 10, you don't have to come back every day and empty, they should fill in sucession
So no-one is going to go through the system or check the pos for 5 days.. what dream world do you live in?
You are obviously 1 who believes pos's are passive income too.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1280 - 2013-10-23 01:27:47 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Sgt Ocker wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Hmm… 30 pages of Goon Tears and no additional dev response. Straight

FTFY.

The last 30 pages have mostly been a CFC whine and cheese reception. Page by page, every page.

Geee, I wonder why the entity that holds most of the valuable moons would be opposed to a nerf leveled squarely at moon holders. Roll

TBH, it reminds me of all the PL and Raiden tears on the forums after the Super nerf. Man, the nerf bat's a bich, aint it? Cool

30 pages of whining?? I've been following this thread pretty closely and only seen a few posts from a couple of different goons. None of which was complaining about the mechanic and why would they it is only going to make their moons more valuable. Goons won't be targeted in any major way by syphons.

I still believe syphons should require the person running it to be online, in system and uncloaked. Thieves should not simply be handed the win by spending 10 mil isk, there should be some risk involved (aside from losing the 10 mil isk)

Yeah, bull. Page 63 -> 9 CFC posts, Page 62 -> 7 CFC posts, Page 61 -> 8 CFC posts, Page 60 -> 7 CFC posts.
And on and on it continues. If you can't see that, then you should get your eyes checked.

40% of all the posts in this thread are made by members of the CFC, and the vast majority of the "negative feedback" is coming from CFC members. The CFC have most of the moons worth siphoning, so they absolutely will be targeted, as there's (almost) no one else to siphon.

If siphons should require the person anchoring them to be online to function, so should all moon harvesters, refineries, research labs labs, CSAA's, and anything else you can anchor on a pos. That idea is bad and you should feel bad.