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Announcement regarding rewards and prizes to fansites and third-party contributors

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Shai 'Hulud
#1121 - 2013-10-21 01:18:43 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
Do I think the CSM represents everybody? hell no, wish it did, though.

They changed the election method with the our most current run, now I think they need to change the outreach and campaign styles. If the mountain won't come to Mohamed . . .

and because I don't think we 14 are the 'true representatives' is why I support trying to talk to the greater public via polls as well as here in forums and in channels when I get the chance.

I fail to see your functional purpose.

The most useful slaves are those that believe themselves to be free
DarkDecay
Real money traders
#1122 - 2013-10-21 03:16:50 UTC
Rammix wrote:
Because they're not capsuleers anymore. Leaving eve they waive the right to affect it.
An example to clarify this: If you leave some country and stop being its citizen you won't have vote there.
It's just logical and fair.


By leaving EVE we have affected it in a manner that is very hard for CCP to ignore. There can be infinite surveys or dev blogs on this but they wont entice us back to EVE. The exceptionally unhealthy relationship with somer (and the fairness issues surrounding it), dealing with rmt (somer again), giving away mega prizes (and gifts to somer yet again), and even the ToS fiasco (no doubt somer are here somehow too), are just a few of the contentious issues that CCP will need to deal with before we return.

No one in their right mind will trust CCP if the results of their survey validates the CCP position: the loss of integrity over these somer issues and CCP's sandbox breaking defence of them has seen to that.

I dont care about some survey while I have unsubbed as it will have zero impact on my decision to return or not. Ending the relationship with somer and ending their rmt too is what will convince me and will be the only thing. In this I have learned from previous CCP disasters and will quote the best response for players when dealing with CCP, "Watch what they do, not what they say".

EVE is not a country. Nor is it some form of direct democracy. Even if it was, although it is not, we who have unsubbed over this block of issues are voting with a type of vote that impacts CCP at a different level than people who respond to a survey. The question we have answered is not just 'Do you feel strongly enough about this issue to stop playing EVE?', but the real question we have responded to is when CCP ask us 'Can we have your real life ISK?' and we have answered it with 'No because you ****** up too badly this time'. It may be a tacit addition to our answer but CCP know fine well they need to fix things if they want to get our real life ISK again.


Logic and fairness does not apply here. Ironically, if it did there would not have been this entire mess.
Kate stark
#1123 - 2013-10-21 05:20:32 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Kate stark wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
CCP giving any player corp an in-game advantage is wrong.

Non tradable Barbie stuff is fine.


CCP giving any in-game entity anything in-game is wrong.

CCP have demonstrated time and time again they have plenty of awesome out of game things they can give to people as "rewards" and "thank yous" and such like.
**** me, look at the models they gave away at eve vegas. they are pretty awesome, give those to people who do cool stuff.



What do you think about non-tangible in game stuff? Or non-tradable in game stuff?

A named moon, station, planet, star system, agent, meta version of a module (i.e. a new meta 4 version which drops as normal)



named planets, etc are cool.

non-tradable ingame stuff? no. here, have 30 nyxes but you can't trade them... still ******* with the sandbox.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Kate stark
#1124 - 2013-10-21 05:21:24 UTC
Rammix wrote:
Kate stark wrote:

people who have canceled their accounts have done so because they feel strongly about the issue. why should their account be valued any less?

Because they're not capsuleers anymore. Leaving eve they waive the right to affect it.
An example to clarify this: If you leave some country and stop being its citizen you won't have vote there.
It's just logical and fair.


that would be a valid example if unsubscribing weren't our only form of protest.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Frying Doom
#1125 - 2013-10-21 06:10:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Mike Azariah wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:


Those who voted for the CSM are a sub community.

Do you think those who voted in the CSM election represented the majority of players?

Should multiple forms/methods have been used to select the CSM?

Do you think those who could not be bothered and educate themselves about the CSM enough to vote deserve a voice and how should we give it to them?

Funny how a tiny number of votes (of the entire player base) can get folk elected to the CSM, but more representative methods are needed to decide if CCP favouring some player corps is acceptable.

CCP giving any player corp an in-game advantage is wrong.

Non tradable Barbie stuff is fine.



Do I think the CSM represents everybody? hell no, wish it did, though.

They changed the election method with the our most current run, now I think they need to change the outreach and campaign styles. If the mountain won't come to Mohamed . . .

and because I don't think we 14 are the 'true representatives' is why I support trying to talk to the greater public via polls as well as here in forums and in channels when I get the chance.

CCP rewarding effort by communities and individuals is not wrong, but I am sure that is not what you meant. What you are saying is that all rewards need to be out of game as opposed to ingame advantages. But if it is non trade and just 'Barbie stuff will it be appreciated/valued? Best I have heard so far is planetary naming which they talked about doing for a Dust Tourney recently. I mean, How many planets are there?

m

Mike easy question for you. Does the survey contain a question as follows

"Should any community or for profit site be allowed to deal in RMT (The sale of isk for cash)?"

As that is exactly what Somer is doing.

As I may point out the ETC Time code Bazaar rules.
Quote:
4. ETCs must be sold for the agreed price. If too much or too little ISK is transferred, then the difference will be transferred as appropriate.


Also to quote the Game Time Code rules - updated May 18, 2011 these are the GTC rules as per referenced by the Evelopedia Game Time Codes Rules.

Quote:
New Game Time Code Guidelines

Any forms of GTC trades outside the CCP created systems are not allowed or supported by CCP.

Any forms of scams with GTCs are not allowed and will be harshly dealt with

GTCs must be sold for the agreed upon price. If too much ISK, or too little ISK, is transferred for the GTC then the difference will be transferred to the appropriate party.


CCPs own rules show Somer to be in breach or are they specifically stating that people they choose are allowed to RMT?

And to quote the EvE ToS
Quote:
Please note that RMT attempts can swiftly lead to permanent forum and permanent in-game bans.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Tina Tin Tits
Doomheim
#1126 - 2013-10-21 07:45:55 UTC
Kate stark wrote:


that would be a valid example if unsubscribing weren't our only form of protest.


QFTT
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#1127 - 2013-10-21 08:52:01 UTC
Rammix wrote:
Kate stark wrote:

people who have canceled their accounts have done so because they feel strongly about the issue. why should their account be valued any less?

Because they're not capsuleers anymore. Leaving eve they waive the right to affect it.
An example to clarify this: If you leave some country and stop being its citizen you won't have vote there.
It's just logical and fair.


Leaving EVE is the only meaningful way we can demonstrate how big of an issue this is to us. The only other way we demonstrate how we feel about an issue is through posts on the forum or blogs, which is incredibly small and meaningless to CCP (as demonstrated by the fact they keep doing these things, and by the fact that they even completely ignore or exclude the CSM when it suits them to do so).

How many CCP employees do you think are reading my post right now, buried under a thousand other posts? Of those employees that see it, how many agree or care what I think? Of those that care, how many are in a position or have the power to raise this issue and potentially effect a change as a result?

Now compare that to how noticeable it is when a customer who has been paying you a considerable sum every month for seven years STOPS paying you, and explains in the "why" box that this is the reason.

Unsubscribing is the only meaningful way I have to make my voice heard. Unsubscribing is also the only sensible reaction to the game turning into something I no longer enjoy, which is what things like this result in: reduced enjoyment in the sandbox.
adarma
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1128 - 2013-10-21 09:05:58 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Moving your thread is not endorsement, it's making sure that it's in the correct forum for the topic.

Discussion is still ongoing internally regarding this kind of practice.

Reference to any endorsement of this by CCP Staff have been removed until an decision is made regarding it rather than misinformation.

Don't put words in my mouth in future.



CCP Falcon, I cannot believe you are still assessing the situation after weeks. Maybe learn from CCP Phantom who assessed the situation and concluded in mere "TWO DAYS" when others tried to go Somer's way?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=287581&find=unread
Josef Djugashvilis
#1129 - 2013-10-21 09:12:08 UTC
By 'Barbie stuff' I mean non in-game usable, for example named planets, a gold star by their portrait, hi-sec stations named after them etc.

This is not a signature.
Frying Doom
#1130 - 2013-10-21 09:41:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
adarma wrote:
CCP Falcon, I cannot believe you are still assessing the situation after weeks. Maybe learn from CCP Phantom who assessed the situation and concluded in mere "TWO DAYS" when others tried to go Somer's way?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=287581&find=unread

That sounds so wrong, but is unfortunately so right.

CCP Phanton stopped others from RMTing like Somer does. Sad

What has became of EvE?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#1131 - 2013-10-21 11:56:23 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
adarma wrote:
CCP Falcon, I cannot believe you are still assessing the situation after weeks. Maybe learn from CCP Phantom who assessed the situation and concluded in mere "TWO DAYS" when others tried to go Somer's way?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=287581&find=unread

That sounds so wrong, but is unfortunately so right.

CCP Phanton stopped others from RMTing like Somer does. Sad

What has became of EvE?


Yes, why are somer allowed to do the exact same thing - and get official endorsements from navigator - yet others aren't?
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1132 - 2013-10-21 12:20:55 UTC
DarkDecay wrote:
By leaving EVE we have affected it in a manner that is very hard for CCP to ignore.

Most places, Money Talks and Bullshit Walks.

In EVE, it's the other way around.

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery
Maximilian Akora
It's just business.
#1133 - 2013-10-21 13:13:11 UTC
Treb, any light on CCP's progress in their "assessment" ?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1134 - 2013-10-21 13:16:32 UTC
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
DarkDecay wrote:
By leaving EVE we have affected it in a manner that is very hard for CCP to ignore.

Most places, Money Talks and Bullshit Walks.

In EVE, it's the other way around.


Which of the two roles are you doing now?

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Mars OG
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1135 - 2013-10-21 13:19:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars OG
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
DarkDecay wrote:
By leaving EVE we have affected it in a manner that is very hard for CCP to ignore.

Most places, Money Talks and Bullshit Walks.

In EVE, it's the other way around.


Which of the two roles are you doing now?

the money ccp wastes on the csm is what guides his walk.

he's certainly talking a line of bullshit.

his sig is appropriate.
Xeen Du'Wang
Perkone
Caldari State
#1136 - 2013-10-21 13:39:34 UTC
This account ends in December, the other is already up

In order for me to consider the situation resolved...

We need another apology from Hellmar and 6 months of subscription to prove he is sincere.
Rendiff
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1137 - 2013-10-21 16:28:24 UTC
I don't see what the big deal here is. If you did something awesome you should get something awesome.
Kate stark
#1138 - 2013-10-21 16:58:32 UTC
Rendiff wrote:
I don't see what the big deal here is. If you did something awesome you should get something awesome.


but not at the expense of the integrity of the sandbox or other players.

nobody is saying people shouldn't be rewarded for doing cool stuff.

we're just saying the way they were rewarded was bad and the "system" (of which there is none, which is half of the problem) needs to be re-evaluated.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Anya Klibor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1139 - 2013-10-21 18:55:40 UTC
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
DarkDecay wrote:
By leaving EVE we have affected it in a manner that is very hard for CCP to ignore.

Most places, Money Talks and Bullshit Walks.

In EVE, it's the other way around.


I agree: In EVE, "bullshit talks". That's why all you've ever done is talk, or surveys.

Leadership is something you learn. Maybe one day, you'll learn that.
Nanatoa
#1140 - 2013-10-21 19:16:20 UTC
Nanatoa wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Nanatoa wrote:
As I said in the Assembly Hall, CCP should at least publicly disclose anything valuable or rare they spawn ingame, if only to make sure the market remains transparent and efficient.


Now, as for the Gold Magnate bait and switch, I'm still waiting for SOMER Blink to return my 16 billion. Posts in their thread have been ignored and ingame messages to Somerset Mahm had no effect, but I still like this organisation with "a solid history of trust and reliability" [CCP Navigator's endorsement, not mine] to honour my refund request. How do I go about this?


Have you petitioned it in game? It was CCP who announced the gold magnates, and it was CCP Navigator who made statements attesting to their honesty and honouring all transactions, and I'm sure that without those statements about what the prize was and how trustworthy the people handling it were you wouldn't have wished to partake and donate that much money to somer


That last part (my bolding) is very true. The only reason I put my 16 billion into SOMER Blink was to get a shot at owning a truly historic vessel, something CCP assured I had a honest chance of winning. I really want this settled and my patience and softspokenness should not be confused with a lack of determiniation or persistence.


I have an update on this situation:
Nothing has changed :(
No word from SOMER Blink. No word from Somerset Mahm. No word from CCP. It's like it's the most trustworthy and reliable thing in the world to announce you're doing something, take money for it, and then not do it.
Now I don't mind scams in EVE, but I do mind CCP actively participating in them. I would never have given SOMER Blink money if not for CCPs announcement and endorsement.

"Stay the course, we have done this many times before." - (CCP) Hilmar, June 2011