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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#1801 - 2013-10-19 07:43:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaju Enki
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
The point of having the ships be pretty much unable to shoehorn an expanded launcher and covops cloak is to strongly discourage PvP use. Everything about the ship is designed to strongly discourage PvP use without making it completely impossible. The kinds of bonuses you want would require other attributes be reduced or even removed entirely to keep it from becoming horribly OP.
How would it become OP?? All I'm asking for is a 50% reduction in fitting an expanded probe launcher, this would actually decrease DPS as it is 1 less turret fitted.

Yes the ship in its current guise is purely designed for pve and that is really really sad.

CCP Rise wrote:
The cruiser missing the Cloak CPU bonus is intentional, the CPU is set with that in mind.

If you guys can show me fits that you feel SHOULD work with the cloak and don't because of missing the bonus please let me know, but we were able to run 6/10s with it set like this and it gives it some interesting tradeoffs when deciding what to do with it.

If they won't give the ship a cloaking device CPU reduction why would they give it a probe launcher CPU reduction?


Gotta love CCP's hypocrisy.

Maruader: No ship should be designed solely for PvE, so we are going to wreck it for PvE and change it for PvP (which it will fail at).
SOE Cruiser: We don't want you running around with a combat probe launcher, because this ships is designed from the ground up as a PvE ship.

Where are all the fanboi's now screaming "Eve is a PvP game only!!!"?
Yes, I see a few in this thread, but most are drooling at running solo 6/10's with ease.



Powercreep is bad on sandbox mmo-rpg's, and this two new ships are already overpowered.

In the current state, their no reason to fly any other frigate/cruisers, add a expanded probe launcher and they would have to change the name of the game to SoE Online.

PS: You don't need a expanded probe launcher to be a "PvP" ship, if that was the case then their would only be a handful of "PvP" ships in the game.

The Tears Must Flow
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1802 - 2013-10-19 07:43:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Omnathious Deninard
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

Gotta love CCP's hypocrisy.

Maruader: No ship should be designed solely for PvE, so we are going to wreck it for PvE and change it for PvP (which it will fail at).
SOE Cruiser: We don't want you running around with a combat probe launcher, because this ships is designed from the ground up as a PvE ship.

Where are all the fanboi's now screaming "Eve is a PvP game only!!!"?
Yes, I see a few in this thread, but most are drooling at running solo 6/10's with ease.


The SOE cruise will be PVP viable, simply because it can't fit an expanded probe launcher plus all its other modules does not mean it cant PVP.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#1803 - 2013-10-19 08:07:21 UTC
Dinsdale is just upset because his favorite toy got re-purposed and he's too cheap to buy a new toy with his billions of Incursion-farming ISK.

Don't mind him.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#1804 - 2013-10-19 08:12:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaju Enki
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Dinsdale is just upset because his favorite toy got re-purposed and he's too cheap to buy a new toy with his billions of Incursion-farming ISK.

Don't mind him.


Is mad because is a themepark carebear, he's not interested in the sandbox health, just in is isk/hour.

The Tears Must Flow
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1805 - 2013-10-19 10:38:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
So we just have another ship pigeon holed to PVE and a single PVE role at that.
Quote:
looking super sexy and generally being kind of awesome.
Kind of awesome, no.. Barely useful for anything other than relic and data sites.
Or cloaky hunting, plex/anom runner hunting, WH fighting, black ops hot dropping, DED's and probably most other things you might expect a cruiser to reasonably do. You keep coming back to the same BS as if it were true just for lack of the ability to easily fit an expanded probe launcher. Oddly, by that criteria the game has very few PvP ships.

Try using EFT, it is not a matter of "easily" fitting the launcher. If you do fit an expanded launcher you are out of options for fitting anything else. Is it hard being so narrow minded as to not see others might want something a little different to the abundance of ships already out there? Every ship has a role, this one has a role as a PVE cruiser, with the abilty to do what many other ships already do in a limited pvp role, so nothing special about it except possibly its price

Personally I would rather give up the 100 to 160 dps from the unbonused guns for the ability to fit and use an expanded launcher, giving the ship a role no other cruiser (bar T3's) can fill. I think nearly 600dps and 50k EHP with the ability to probe out targets would be a unique role for this ship.


**Is a shame it didn't appear on the test sever with the patch today**

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#1806 - 2013-10-19 11:24:35 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
So we just have another ship pigeon holed to PVE and a single PVE role at that.
Quote:
looking super sexy and generally being kind of awesome.
Kind of awesome, no.. Barely useful for anything other than relic and data sites.
Or cloaky hunting, plex/anom runner hunting, WH fighting, black ops hot dropping, DED's and probably most other things you might expect a cruiser to reasonably do. You keep coming back to the same BS as if it were true just for lack of the ability to easily fit an expanded probe launcher. Oddly, by that criteria the game has very few PvP ships.

Try using EFT, it is not a matter of "easily" fitting the launcher. If you do fit an expanded launcher you are out of options for fitting anything else. Is it hard being so narrow minded as to not see others might want something a little different to the abundance of ships already out there? Every ship has a role, this one has a role as a PVE cruiser, with the abilty to do what many other ships already do in a limited pvp role, so nothing special about it except possibly its price

Personally I would rather give up the 100 to 160 dps from the unbonused guns for the ability to fit and use an expanded launcher, giving the ship a role no other cruiser (bar T3's) can fill. I think nearly 600dps and 50k EHP with the ability to probe out targets would be a unique role for this ship.


**Is a shame it didn't appear on the test sever with the patch today**


100-160 dps for a expanded launcher? lol do you also want a doomsday with it?

The Tears Must Flow
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1807 - 2013-10-19 12:21:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Vaju Enki wrote:


100-160 dps for a expanded launcher? lol do you also want a doomsday with it?
Sorry i don't read jibberish real well. Would you mind explaining, what has losing 100 to 160 dps to fit an expanded launcher got to do with doomsdays?? I do believe eve has a new "champion of the idiots"

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#1808 - 2013-10-19 12:24:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaju Enki
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
[quote=Tyberius Franklin]
Try using EFT, it is not a matter of "easily" fitting the launcher. If you do fit an expanded launcher you are out of options for fitting anything else. Is it hard being so narrow minded as to not see others might want something a little different to the abundance of ships already out there? Every ship has a role, this one has a role as a PVE cruiser, with the abilty to do what many other ships already do in a limited pvp role, so nothing special about it except possibly its price

Personally I would rather give up the 100 to 160 dps from the unbonused guns for the ability to fit and use an expanded launcher, giving the ship a role no other cruiser (bar T3's) can fill. I think nearly 600dps and 50k EHP with the ability to probe out targets would be a unique role for this ship.


**Is a shame it didn't appear on the test sever with the patch today**


100-160 dps for a expanded launcher? lol do you also want a doomsday with it?
Sorry i don't read jibberish real well. Would you mind explaining, what has losing 100 to 160 dps to fit an expanded launcher got to do with doomsdays?? I do believe eve has a new "champion of the idiots"


Jibberish, do you have a slow brain? 100-160 dps for expanded launcher? You think that's a fair trade? You must be a member of the two digit IQ club...

The Tears Must Flow
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1809 - 2013-10-19 12:28:55 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
[quote=Tyberius Franklin]
Try using EFT, it is not a matter of "easily" fitting the launcher. If you do fit an expanded launcher you are out of options for fitting anything else. Is it hard being so narrow minded as to not see others might want something a little different to the abundance of ships already out there? Every ship has a role, this one has a role as a PVE cruiser, with the abilty to do what many other ships already do in a limited pvp role, so nothing special about it except possibly its price

Personally I would rather give up the 100 to 160 dps from the unbonused guns for the ability to fit and use an expanded launcher, giving the ship a role no other cruiser (bar T3's) can fill. I think nearly 600dps and 50k EHP with the ability to probe out targets would be a unique role for this ship.


**Is a shame it didn't appear on the test sever with the patch today**


100-160 dps for a expanded launcher? lol do you also want a doomsday with it?
Sorry i don't read jibberish real well. Would you mind explaining, what has losing 100 to 160 dps to fit an expanded launcher got to do with doomsdays?? I do believe eve has a new "champion of the idiots"


Jibberish? 100-160 dps for expanded launcher? You think that's a fair trade? You must be a member of the two digit IQ club...

Yeah I do.. To give the ship a unique role in pvp. 4 unbonused guns that have 160dps at 6.3k - 110dps at 20.4k? yeah get rid of them and fit 2 extra drone links, let your 600dps of drones reach out that bit further to do their job.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#1810 - 2013-10-19 12:47:41 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

**Is a shame it didn't appear on the test sever with the patch today**


100-160 dps for a expanded launcher? lol do you also want a doomsday with it?
Sorry i don't read jibberish real well. Would you mind explaining, what has losing 100 to 160 dps to fit an expanded launcher got to do with doomsdays?? I do believe eve has a new "champion of the idiots"


Jibberish? 100-160 dps for expanded launcher? You think that's a fair trade? You must be a member of the two digit IQ club...

Yeah I do.. To give the ship a unique role in pvp. 4 unbonused guns that have 160dps at 6.3k - 110dps at 20.4k? yeah get rid of them and fit 2 extra drone links, let your 600dps of drones reach out that bit further to do their job.


Thank god you don't work for CCP, the game would stink with all the powercreep.

The Tears Must Flow
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1811 - 2013-10-19 12:59:27 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:


Thank god you don't work for CCP, the game would stink with all the powercreep.

Sorry what power creep, how is taking potential dps away from a ship in any way power creep? The ship is capable of close to 600dps with drones + up to 160dps with guns. My suggestion removes the guns = lower dps. I really think you need to go to sleep and reread the thread once your brain can see what it says and not what you think it says.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1812 - 2013-10-19 13:13:22 UTC
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#1813 - 2013-10-19 13:27:09 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:


Thank god you don't work for CCP, the game would stink with all the powercreep.

Sorry what power creep, how is taking potential dps away from a ship in any way power creep? The ship is capable of close to 600dps with drones + up to 160dps with guns. My suggestion removes the guns = lower dps. I really think you need to go to sleep and reread the thread once your brain can see what it says and not what you think it says.



So your ideia for balance is give this already overpowered ship a expanded probe launcher, and then take away 160dps?

Jesus, theres alot of stupid people in this world...

The Tears Must Flow
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1814 - 2013-10-19 14:12:47 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Personally I would rather give up the 100 to 160 dps from the unbonused guns for the ability to fit and use an expanded launcher, giving the ship a role no other cruiser (bar T3's) can fill. I think nearly 600dps and 50k EHP with the ability to probe out targets would be a unique role for this ship.


**Is a shame it didn't appear on the test sever with the patch today**

Then do so. Your suggestion can easily be accomplished on your own part by choosing not to fill the highslots. So again, why should everyone else be FORCED into your fit just so you can feel better about it since nothing is preventing you from it?

Also how did we go from 89 pages of the "it's too good for PvP" argument to this?
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1815 - 2013-10-19 15:10:05 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Personally I would rather give up the 100 to 160 dps from the unbonused guns for the ability to fit and use an expanded launcher, giving the ship a role no other cruiser (bar T3's) can fill. I think nearly 600dps and 50k EHP with the ability to probe out targets would be a unique role for this ship.


**Is a shame it didn't appear on the test sever with the patch today**

Then do so. Your suggestion can easily be accomplished on your own part by choosing not to fill the highslots. So again, why should everyone else be FORCED into your fit just so you can feel better about it since nothing is preventing you from it?

Also how did we go from 89 pages of the "it's too good for PvP" argument to this?

Actually simply leaving the high slots empty does not accomplish my goal. The ships does not have enough CPU to fit an expanded probe + cloak + any sort of tank. Had you read the post you would see, I'm not forcing anyone to fit it only the way I would prefer. You would have what every ship in eve has, "options". But it is much easier to read 1 or 2 lines and say screw you that's wrong, than it is to read a whole thread.

As a pvp ship the gun dps is going to be of little value to you (except maybe to shoot any drones the guy your fighting may launch). As an exploration ship, your not going to get that gun dps because 1 slot is taken up by probe launcher, so your left with less dps from guns with your 3 unbonused lasers. As an anom runner well, I'd like to see the fit the OP was running 6/10's with.. Can be pretty sure it didn't have a cloak or a probe launcher or maybe it did, on the internal servers you don't have to worry about neuts so can take as long as you like to finish.

In the end it's all good, I'll use my LP to get a couple and simply sell them..

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
ConranAntoni
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1816 - 2013-10-19 15:12:12 UTC
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#1817 - 2013-10-19 15:44:59 UTC
ConranAntoni wrote:
Nothing like a good repost for the hilarious spurious, feaces encrusted arguments from the clueless posters screaming OP and power creep.


I think what that picture tells you is Pirate is geared more towards specialisation than navy ships are rather than you're assumption of being plain improvement over navy. .... its a big difference to note and i hope Rise also notes the difference..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1818 - 2013-10-19 16:46:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Personally I would rather give up the 100 to 160 dps from the unbonused guns for the ability to fit and use an expanded launcher, giving the ship a role no other cruiser (bar T3's) can fill. I think nearly 600dps and 50k EHP with the ability to probe out targets would be a unique role for this ship.


**Is a shame it didn't appear on the test sever with the patch today**

Then do so. Your suggestion can easily be accomplished on your own part by choosing not to fill the highslots. So again, why should everyone else be FORCED into your fit just so you can feel better about it since nothing is preventing you from it?

Also how did we go from 89 pages of the "it's too good for PvP" argument to this?

Actually simply leaving the high slots empty does not accomplish my goal. The ships does not have enough CPU to fit an expanded probe + cloak + any sort of tank. Had you read the post you would see, I'm not forcing anyone to fit it only the way I would prefer. You would have what every ship in eve has, "options". But it is much easier to read 1 or 2 lines and say screw you that's wrong, than it is to read a whole thread.

As a pvp ship the gun dps is going to be of little value to you (except maybe to shoot any drones the guy your fighting may launch). As an exploration ship, your not going to get that gun dps because 1 slot is taken up by probe launcher, so your left with less dps from guns with your 3 unbonused lasers. As an anom runner well, I'd like to see the fit the OP was running 6/10's with.. Can be pretty sure it didn't have a cloak or a probe launcher or maybe it did, on the internal servers you don't have to worry about neuts so can take as long as you like to finish.

In the end it's all good, I'll use my LP to get a couple and simply sell them..

I don't see you being active as early as I in this thread so I'm not sure where the idea of me only reading 2 lines and nothing else in the thread came from. That aside the idea you proposed was to drop 3 highslots. If leaving those same 3 highs empty doesn't accomplish your goal why did you suggest it? If it does why for it on everyone? Also even if not using the slots for guns (which several posters in the thread I supposedly haven't run ARE posting fits with guns by the way, though usually not lasers) why take away any utility options as well?

Or did you step back from the -3 high slot idea in favor of something else?

On a related note, if armor tanking DS ANP's can still help provide a substantial buffer while not touching your CPU.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1819 - 2013-10-19 16:53:01 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
ConranAntoni wrote:
Nothing like a good repost for the hilarious spurious, feaces encrusted arguments from the clueless posters screaming OP and power creep.


I think what that picture tells you is Pirate is geared more towards specialisation than navy ships are rather than you're assumption of being plain improvement over navy. .... its a big difference to note and i hope Rise also notes the difference..

That interpretation ignores the vertical arrow labelled improvement. Considering the same image was referenced for the general theme of navy being thematically a direct upgrade from T1 I would think the view that pirate > navy is supported by that image.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1820 - 2013-10-19 17:13:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Xequecal
Vaju Enki wrote:
So your ideia for balance is give this already overpowered ship a expanded probe launcher, and then take away 160dps?

Jesus, theres alot of stupid people in this world...


FYI: You can still do a pretty damn good gank fit with an expanded probe launcher.

[New Setup 3]
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Internal Force Field Array I
Shadow Serpentis Co-Processor
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

10MN Afterburner II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Small Capacitor Booster II,Navy Cap Booster 400

Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher,Core Scanner Probe I
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II

Drones_Active=Ogre II,5

That's still 700 DPS and a respectable 45k EHP, it fits with Genolution CA-1 and CA-2