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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

First post First post First post
Author
Dehval
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1841 - 2013-10-20 17:51:56 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
This ship is not going to be fit this way often (due to low EHP and CPU) In this guise yes it is OP but at a price. T2 rigs + faction CPU mod + ship cost. You want to hope it is OP. You can make pretty much any ship OP if you spend enough isk on it, don't cry simply because 1 person has no respect for his wallet and posted an OP fit.


If you want to save money you can use a cheap 3% CPU implant on top of the genos and that lets you downgrade the faction co-proc to an 8m dyad co-proc, as well as equip a regular Expanded Probe Launcher I instead of the SoE faction version.

I think the fit you posted before you edited the post was a better example of what the ship will likely be fitted towards. Slightly less EHP (only 4k), but much much cheaper, no?
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1842 - 2013-10-20 19:06:31 UTC
Dehval wrote:
I think the fit you posted before you edited the post was a better example of what the ship will likely be fitted towards. Slightly less EHP (only 4k), but much much cheaper, no?


It was about 40m cheaper, yes. But if one wants to save money on a fit like this they can just fit a cheap 3% CPU implant and do this:

[New Setup 3]
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Internal Force Field Array I
'Dyad' Co-Processor I
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

10MN Afterburner II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Small Capacitor Booster II,Navy Cap Booster 400

Expanded Probe Launcher I,Core Scanner Probe I
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II

45k EHP/700 DPS with no faction mods at all except for the Dyad co-proc which costs about 8m.
Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
The Gurlstas Associates
#1843 - 2013-10-20 20:23:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Omnathious Deninard
Elisk Skyforge wrote:
Do you guys think projectile weapons on the Stratios would be a good idea ? will the dps going to be near the lasers ?

IMO, just fit the ship with what ever turrets you like the best. I prefer hybrids so I will use those .

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#1844 - 2013-10-20 20:38:17 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
Dehval wrote:
I think the fit you posted before you edited the post was a better example of what the ship will likely be fitted towards. Slightly less EHP (only 4k), but much much cheaper, no?


It was about 40m cheaper, yes. But if one wants to save money on a fit like this they can just fit a cheap 3% CPU implant and do this:

[New Setup 3]
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Internal Force Field Array I
'Dyad' Co-Processor I
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

10MN Afterburner II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Small Capacitor Booster II,Navy Cap Booster 400

Expanded Probe Launcher I,Core Scanner Probe I
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II

45k EHP/700 DPS with no faction mods at all except for the Dyad co-proc which costs about 8m.


I hope CCP Rise and CCP Fozzie check this out. This is broken beyond belief.

The Tears Must Flow

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1845 - 2013-10-20 22:47:41 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:


I hope CCP Rise and CCP Fozzie check this out. This is broken beyond belief.


Someone has never seen Cloaky Probe T3's ganking either...
This is nothing that isn't in the game already, and has much worse DPS application than a cloaky T3 does, as well as significantly lower tank.

Really, yes, it's a dangerous cruiser when gank fit. IF you catch your target. Sure they might not see you uncloak instantly, but they aren't sitting still like a doorknob either. If they are then they are dying from their own stupidity. They will be burning in a direction probably much faster than you can move while cloaked, making it pure luck if you can catch them at all. Let alone if they see you after you decloak in time to react.
And no, the neuts will not cap a cruiser out instantly, because they have a Cap booster. Unless they are PvE fit. In which case you could kill them in anything PvE fit so it doesn't matter.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1846 - 2013-10-21 01:49:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Xequecal wrote:
Dehval wrote:
I think the fit you posted before you edited the post was a better example of what the ship will likely be fitted towards. Slightly less EHP (only 4k), but much much cheaper, no?


It was about 40m cheaper, yes. But if one wants to save money on a fit like this they can just fit a cheap 3% CPU implant and do this:

[New Setup 3]
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Internal Force Field Array I
'Dyad' Co-Processor I
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

10MN Afterburner II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Small Capacitor Booster II,Navy Cap Booster 400

Expanded Probe Launcher I,Core Scanner Probe I
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II

45k EHP/700 DPS with no faction mods at all except for the Dyad co-proc which costs about 8m.
Looks good but still expensive ship + implants, easier and cheaper to fly a recon.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

To mare
Advanced Technology
#1847 - 2013-10-21 02:57:48 UTC
Elisk Skyforge wrote:
Do you guys think projectile weapons on the Stratios would be a good idea ? will the dps going to be near the lasers ?

projectile weapons already suck with ship bonus i dont see them working very well w/o
plus the stratios have plenty of cap that you dont really need a capless weapon.
if you could fit 4 HAM that would be another story
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1848 - 2013-10-21 03:24:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
To mare wrote:
Elisk Skyforge wrote:
Do you guys think projectile weapons on the Stratios would be a good idea ? will the dps going to be near the lasers ?

projectile weapons already suck with ship bonus i dont see them working very well w/o
plus the stratios have plenty of cap that you dont really need a capless weapon.
if you could fit 4 HAM that would be another story
With MWD, scram, 2X webs.
220 autos faction EMP, 142dps 484 alpha, 12.5k, 5min 35sec cap
Focused medium pulse IMP M, 144dps 419 alpha, 10.6, 2min 54sec cap

RLM would be awesome and give some range but won't happen.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Seolfor
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1849 - 2013-10-21 05:23:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Seolfor
Since common sense and logic seems to not be getting through to our devs about this borked cruiser.

Forget its probing ability.
Forget its hacking ability.

As an out and out combat cruiser.

Lets compare it to an Ishtar. The so called king of drone cruisers (yes yes, its debatable, but need to take SOME baseline).

[Stratios, Cloaky Brick of Doom]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Scrambler II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Drone Link Augmentor II

Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II

Curator II x5
Berserker II x5
Valkyrie II x5
Warrior II x5
Vespa EC-600 x5
Garde II x5



Fit the exact same mods on an Ishtar. Now you will see that the Stratios is [stats are with Loki links on both]:

Both have VERY decent speed 1600 v/s 1700 m/s, close to 2500 OHeated i.e. yes, trimarked and plated, they still MOVE

Both have about 600 dps with Heavy Drones/Sentries (more with Gallente, but for sake of realism and not just EFTing max numbers, assume youre using Curators or Berserkers)

Now, the Stratios:

- 67k EHP v/s 52k EHP and near double the armor HPs (with LG Slaves, this will further bloat in the Stratios favor)

- 500m3 vs 375m3 drone bay, gives so many drone options and standbys that anyone dumb enough to blap your drones.. Were talking ECM immune, Cap free, Damage-Type Selectable, Fully applied DPS here (on anything within 12km, more with pimp scram). Not to mention a spare of medium ECM drones, JUST in case your triple neuting and fat buffer and 600 dps isnt enough in a fight.

- 4.5 vs 5.8 align times, not that agility is needed on a double web, scram, dual Med Neut fit, but sure

And just for fun .. you know, a tiny itty bitty difference:

The Stratios has a CovOps cloak.



Compare it to the Pilgrim now, the other Covert Ops Drone Cruiser. Now Cry or Laugh, whatever. (I'll save you the trouble, approx, the Pilgrim is 270 vs 600 dps and about 30% less EHP, all other things being the same)

Wish to cloak and sit inside a plex, spamming short dscan waiting for fools to land? Go Stratios
Wish to travel with impunity through all of high/low sec? Go Stratios
Wish to kill fools, decloak 5 seconds before landing on a target? Go Stratios
Please bring your Billion isk Proteus and sit neuted getting your 200k EHP chipped at, 600 dps at a time

High sec farming of the source LPs, the price will NOT breach 300m after the initial frenzy, rest assured.

Really????

Edit: Anyone naive enough to believe this doesnt get supremely abused with link/probing-alts, implants needs to stop afk-playing in high-sec and understand that EvE exists beyond running L4s or no-risk hacking/salvaging sites in 0.5+ systems.
Seolfor
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1850 - 2013-10-21 05:41:38 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Looks good but still expensive ship + implants, easier and cheaper to fly a recon.


Tool in the wild.

sub 300 dps on any such Recon with 45k EHP v/s 700 dps on this Stratios.

Please. Stop Posting.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#1851 - 2013-10-21 09:17:26 UTC
Change the Stratios bonus:

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
5% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage

The Tears Must Flow

Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
SE7EN-SINS
#1852 - 2013-10-21 09:37:29 UTC
Why are these ships not on the test server yet? Given the amount of furore that's going on about balance and their place in the game's meta, you'd think the logical thing to do would be to let players have some hands-on experience with them.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1853 - 2013-10-21 14:01:38 UTC
Seolfor wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Looks good but still expensive ship + implants, easier and cheaper to fly a recon.


Tool in the wild.

sub 300 dps on any such Recon with 45k EHP v/s 700 dps on this Stratios.

Please. Stop Posting.
Oh nooo !! Heavy drones are gonna eat my ship !!

Ah yeah, I remember now, just flying a cruiser might be ok.

Oh, and on a side note, while it will have less ehp, a Pilgrim will do as much dps as a no gun Stratios on cruisers and below, but with really nasty ewar.

If any, the Stratios only have a bit too much fitting.
Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
#1854 - 2013-10-21 14:42:58 UTC
As an independent null sec dweller that focuses on exploration and running DED sites, neither of the proposed ships makes me want to supplement my missile/shield tanking skills with armour/turret skills.

My PvP involves not getting found/tackled or punishing those explorers and PI haulers that do not arm or escort themselves. I run only one account for this activity.

These ships (as proposed) offer me nothing my covops or T3 can't already do better. With the introduction of siphoning/tractoring/mobile depot structures I am even less inclined to use SoE ships as proposed.

Its a real shame actually sense these are meant to be exploration based ships.

Hydrostatic Podcast First class listening of all things EVE

Check out the Eve-Prosper show for your market updates!

Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1855 - 2013-10-21 15:20:42 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Seolfor wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Looks good but still expensive ship + implants, easier and cheaper to fly a recon.


Tool in the wild.

sub 300 dps on any such Recon with 45k EHP v/s 700 dps on this Stratios.

Please. Stop Posting.
Oh nooo !! Heavy drones are gonna eat my ship !!

Ah yeah, I remember now, just flying a cruiser might be ok.

Oh, and on a side note, while it will have less ehp, a Pilgrim will do as much dps as a no gun Stratios on cruisers and below, but with really nasty ewar.

If any, the Stratios only have a bit too much fitting.


You can deploy sentry drones and do 670 DPS with perfect application since you have 2 webs.

As for the Pilgrim DPS comment, that's so mind-bogglingly stupid that I won't even bother to respond.
Mr Doctor
Sex Machineguns
#1856 - 2013-10-21 15:25:31 UTC
Maybe after the recon rebalance Lol
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#1857 - 2013-10-21 15:36:08 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Why are these ships not on the test server yet? Given the amount of furore that's going on about balance and their place in the game's meta, you'd think the logical thing to do would be to let players have some hands-on experience with them.


Probably because the ships aren't done yet. Last I saw of them, the Astero wasn't fully textured yet and the Stratios wasn't textured at all.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
#1858 - 2013-10-21 18:11:51 UTC
You all kill me. Change the 10% to drone HP and damage to 5%, ALL other drone cruisers and BSs have 10%, so that is just ridiculous. Also you are using the damage done by Heavy Drones, what on earth will you be attacking, a BS. Good luck with that, with or without a cloak. Anything else Heavy drones won't do enough DPS to matter, and sentries, well let's hope your target is slow enough or far enough out to have them hit hard enough. Only thing that the cruiser SOE needs change is the 50% to laser cap bonus, to either 100% to damage and have it only have 2 or 3 guns, or something to help with tracking or optimal range. And neuts really, you will loose your cap so fast that your 1600 plate will do nothing to help anymore, drones don't do enough damage right away to help you not die faster, unless you have logi a passive tank in PvP is dead fast. Go against any cruiser or higher with proj or missile that has a ASB or AAR and well again you loose pretty fast with or without neuts. That's it, NOTHING else needs fixed. Stop EFTing with heavy drones and sentries and go troll somewhere else. And stop with the cloaky logi and stuff, SOE do help those in need, but they also fight or pay us to fight those doing wrong and they explore too. A cloaky logi will just get blown to nothing the moment it uncloaked and started to logi. Let's get them on sis, and played with CCP will fix as needed from there.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#1859 - 2013-10-21 19:16:17 UTC
I'm going to say it again since everyone appears to be indicating that they've forgotten:

The whole point of the laser cap use bonus being on the Stratios in the first place is to make them viable on the hull compared to other weapons that use significantly less cap while still allowing you to basically fit any turret you want. The turrets aren't meant to be the primary source of DPS. Moreover, the Amarr side of the ship is its tank. Damage output bonuses are handled by the Gallente side. There aren't any missile slots because then all the highs would be filled with weapons and the DPS really would end up being too much.

I still strongly feel that CCP ought to develop a way to mark highslots as "utility-only" so that you can't put turrets or missile launchers into them even if you have hardpoints left. It might even serve to make balancing ships a bit easier.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1860 - 2013-10-21 19:37:37 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
You can deploy sentry drones and do 670 DPS with perfect application since you have 2 webs.

As for the Pilgrim DPS comment, that's so mind-bogglingly stupid that I won't even bother to respond.

This thread is a farce ! A mind boggling farce full of EFT warriors who don't understand anything about the tracking formula and drones.

In fact, I am imagining you saying that sentry drones should be used to gank something and trying not to lough to your own joke at the same time. Or loughing out loud behind your keyboard at the idea of someone possibly believing you are saying this seriously.