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Dev Blog: No Honor Among Thieves - Siphon Units in Rubicon

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Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#141 - 2013-10-17 16:57:47 UTC
ONE-MAN WOLF-PACK wrote:
I
DRINK
YOUR
MILKSHAKE!

I DRINK IT UP! *SLUURRRP*


FIFY.

Learn your quotes! You get a +1 anyways though for making me giggle.

Katrina Oniseki
Orion Moonstar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#142 - 2013-10-17 16:57:48 UTC
CCP Paradox wrote:
The Warfish wrote:
Will destroyed Siphons result in a Structure Killmail, a la POS Modules?

If not, it should.


Yes, Kill Reports will be generated including the information on what was dropped/destroyed.


Can we get the API data on that fudged too, please?
Vatek
Rents Due Crew
#143 - 2013-10-17 16:58:27 UTC
CCP Paradox wrote:
The Warfish wrote:
Will destroyed Siphons result in a Structure Killmail, a la POS Modules?

If not, it should.


Yes, Kill Reports will be generated including the information on what was dropped/destroyed.


Is this ever going to be extended to pos mods?
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#144 - 2013-10-17 16:58:52 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:
I think these siphon units are gold for CCP's goal of creating harass/nuisances for POS owners.

from their reputation you'd guess pos management was enough of a nuisance alone

i wonder why these are coming out before the pos interface gets its rework?
Jack bubu
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#145 - 2013-10-17 16:59:55 UTC
Aryth wrote:
I don't think people in this thread realize we might be the least impacted of any null-sec entity. We have already planned for this possibility. The people that will be hurt by this are the guys without rental empires. Size doesn't matter. Organization does.

We are the ones that are going to be spamming these across regions. While choking off the supply that we happen to sit on the lions share of. You can think this is about us, but I would point to our track record of doing what is best for EVE. This is far more about the imbalance of the design. The design is flawed on cost vs reward to a huge degree.

I would rather see 50m a siphon but 10 is absurdly low. It is all about hours to earnback. That should be balanced in such a way that the defender and attacker have a reasonable chance of damaging each other. ISK wise.

If you keep spinning that fast you might take off m8
Vatek
Rents Due Crew
#146 - 2013-10-17 17:00:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Vatek
Anybody posting in this thread with HAHA SUCK ON THAT POS HAVERS attitudes has clearly never owned or operated a pos before. It's already ****** enough.
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
#147 - 2013-10-17 17:02:52 UTC
Orion Moonstar wrote:
CCP Paradox wrote:
The Warfish wrote:
Will destroyed Siphons result in a Structure Killmail, a la POS Modules?

If not, it should.


Yes, Kill Reports will be generated including the information on what was dropped/destroyed.


Can we get the API data on that fudged too, please?

Mmmm... fudge....

Nyan
CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#148 - 2013-10-17 17:04:02 UTC
The Warfish wrote:
Will destroyed Siphons result in a Structure Killmail, a la POS Modules?

If not, it should.


They will.
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#149 - 2013-10-17 17:04:53 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
Aryth wrote:
I don't think people in this thread realize we might be the least impacted of any null-sec entity. We have already planned for this possibility. The people that will be hurt by this are the guys without rental empires. Size doesn't matter. Organization does.


Indeed, and because of this I'm surprised that you've failed to see the potential for your alliance.

As you say, your alliance will be much better placed to deal with the consequences than your competitors, while you also have a playerbase with the numbers and penchant for griefing that will be able to make full use of this module in hostile space. The siphon meshes perfectly with Goons' public philosophy.

But remember, you don't need to check every POS, just use dscan. Hell, probes are probably even easier.


You are assuming I haven't see how well it helps us. We have known for quite some time our endgame in T2. This only accelerates it and probably lines our pockets more than anyone's in EVE by far. We control most of the r64s and by extension the T2 market.

I am telling CCP in good faith this is not balanced. This design is bad, if you go down this path it is bad for EVE. It doesn't mean it is bad for our wallet. The very nature of this change as presented pretty much assures we make more ISK because the people that do manage to control their goo will profit greatly. That will be us.

This will become a mass manip tool not some individual guerrilla mechanic. You made things so cheap you don't even need to GET the goo, just spam and laugh as huge portions of supply dies.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Dracnys
#150 - 2013-10-17 17:05:57 UTC
While I like the general idea of giving the small guy a way to annoy the big guys I have a few concerns here:

  • Way too cheap. Siphoning units should cost at least 30m. Otherwise deploying and then losing them is completely meaningless. I think they should repay themselves in about 72 hours of siphoning.
  • They shouldn't stack. If there are two of them on one tower it should only double their cargo capacity and not the amount siphoned per hour.
  • 25 hours until full is not enough, make this 72 hours. Many players hate "having" to log in for something (skill queue, updating orders, checking siphon, patrolling POS) and even though it is a way to keep them log they tend to burn out quickly.
  • Too small in cargohold. 20m3 for something that can hold 1200 when deployed? A frigate shouldn't be able to carry more than one.
  • Having the API lie is a really bad solution. I don't have a great alternative either but I feel like all information given by API should be trustworthy.
  • Have a skill that limits how many a player can deploy. Let's say 5 from the beginning up to a maximum of 10. Otherwise people will just fly around in a covops hauler and cover every single worthwhile moon in a region.

Felicity Love
Doomheim
#151 - 2013-10-17 17:06:42 UTC
Where's the effective "cost" of operating this structure ?

There should be a fuel consumption requirement, which is also in line with the stated desire by CCP to make resources more of a conflict issue.

It could be "cap charges" or isotopes... whatever. There has to be some "cost" involved for operation.

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Rekkr Nordgard
Steelforge Heavy Industries
#152 - 2013-10-17 17:07:18 UTC
I can't decide which I love more; the moon siphon itself or all the Goon tears it's generating. :D

Keep up the great work on this, CCP.
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
#153 - 2013-10-17 17:07:25 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
They will.

What event/timer/etc will reset the API fudge value for siphoned POSes?

Nyan
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#154 - 2013-10-17 17:09:15 UTC
Alright:

this is a MASSIVE pain in the arse for corporations that do not span multiple timezones. everyone who is in a non-english speaking corporation has some serious organisation to do to get towers watched. Not cool. This is manageable for us (100% german corp) since we also speak english and can easily coordinate with other english speaking groups. The russians that often don't really speak english have a problem. a big one.

instead of introducing some interesting timer mechanic that could actually lead to some fights you made something that is going to be a massive pain in the arse for people in leadership positions. typical :CCP:

i was excited for this, mainly because i really hoped that it could lead to some interesting small scale pvp actions. but with the current implementation there is absolutely NO reason to interact with these things with anything that is not a T2 industrial with a covert ops cloak or a POS gun.
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
#155 - 2013-10-17 17:09:25 UTC
Dracnys wrote:
While I like the general idea of giving the small guy a way to annoy the big guys I have a few concerns here:

  • Way too cheap. Siphoning units should cost at least 30m. Otherwise deploying and then losing them is completely meaningless. I think they should repay themselves in about 72 hours of siphoning.
  • They shouldn't stack. If there are two of them on one tower it should only double their cargo capacity and not the amount siphoned per hour.
  • 25 hours until full is not enough, make this 72 hours. Many players hate "having" to log in for something (skill queue, updating orders, checking siphon, patrolling POS) and even though it is a way to keep them log they tend to burn out quickly.
  • Too small in cargohold. 20m3 for something that can hold 1200 when deployed? A frigate shouldn't be able to carry more than one.
  • Having the API lie is a really bad solution. I don't have a great alternative either but I feel like all information given by API should be trustworthy.
  • Have a skill that limits how many a player can deploy. Let's say 5 from the beginning up to a maximum of 10. Otherwise people will just fly around in a covops hauler and cover every single worthwhile moon in a region.


This is a good alt post.

Nyan
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#156 - 2013-10-17 17:09:31 UTC
Loving all these afk pos owner tears in this thread. God forbid you actually need to spend more than 3 minutes a week fueling and grabbing goo right?
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#157 - 2013-10-17 17:09:48 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
20m3 does seem tiny compared to how big the actual unit will be when deployed... how can you make something shrink that much into a cargo-bay ... surely it should be more cargo-ship sized like 1200m3 if it is going too be able to store that much surely it should have to be that size to begin with .. especially with cov-op frigs or inties they could easily exploit these things going from POS to POS without be catch-able it seems a little unbalanced to me.


ask dr who is size matters

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Kwa Zulu
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#158 - 2013-10-17 17:11:14 UTC
After rereading requesting one change to the plans: change the volume of the module to such a size that it is not possible to deploy these with frigsize shipclasses. There needs to be a balanced risk
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#159 - 2013-10-17 17:11:43 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
Alright:

this is a MASSIVE pain in the arse for corporations that do not span multiple timezones. everyone who is in a non-english speaking corporation has some serious organisation to do to get towers watched. Not cool. This is manageable for us (100% german corp) since we also speak english and can easily coordinate with other english speaking groups. The russians that often don't really speak english have a problem. a big one.

instead of introducing some interesting timer mechanic that could actually lead to some fights you made something that is going to be a massive pain in the arse for people in leadership positions. typical :CCP:

i was excited for this, mainly because i really hoped that it could lead to some interesting small scale pvp actions. but with the current implementation there is absolutely NO reason to interact with these things with anything that is not a T2 industrial with a covert ops cloak or a POS gun.


hahaha look at these goon tears so delicio


hey


wait

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Jeanne Hilanen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#160 - 2013-10-17 17:12:09 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
Alright:

this is a MASSIVE pain in the arse for corporations that do not span multiple timezones. everyone who is in a non-english speaking corporation has some serious organisation to do to get towers watched. Not cool. This is manageable for us (100% german corp) since we also speak english and can easily coordinate with other english speaking groups. The russians that often don't really speak english have a problem. a big one.

instead of introducing some interesting timer mechanic that could actually lead to some fights you made something that is going to be a massive pain in the arse for people in leadership positions. typical :CCP:

i was excited for this, mainly because i really hoped that it could lead to some interesting small scale pvp actions. but with the current implementation there is absolutely NO reason to interact with these things with anything that is not a T2 industrial with a covert ops cloak or a POS gun.


And this is a bad thing because? Why should your towers be able to extract in complete safety in all timezones?