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Announcement regarding rewards and prizes to fansites and third-party contributors

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Miss Ladybird
Doomheim
#861 - 2013-10-17 08:32:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss Ladybird
Guys just give up.

SOMERblink is the EVE golden child now, CCP doesnt want all these attacks against them.

They are keeping their hundreds of billions of ships, the vegas thing is still happening, and the RMT exception is standing they dont need to give a reason for it.

Stop being so jelous. Just go play Star Citizen https://robertsspaceindustries.com/about-the-game if you don't like it.

PS

I am officially giving up. Going to just lapse my remaining account and play star craft or league of legends until star citizen is up and running.

Adios
Frying Doom
#862 - 2013-10-17 08:35:59 UTC
Miss Ladybird wrote:
Guys just give up.

SOMERblink is the EVE golden child now, CCP doesnt want all these attacks against them.

They are keeping their hundreds of billions of ships, and the vegas thing is still happening.

Stop being so jelous. Just go play Star Citizen https://robertsspaceindustries.com/about-the-game if you don't like it.

PS

I am officially giving up. Going to just lapse my remaining account and play star craft or league of legends until star citizen is up and running.

Adios

Some of us are already convincing our wives why we need a TrakIR and a HOTAS Warthog to go with our Star Citizen account for the dog fighting module. Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#863 - 2013-10-17 09:48:35 UTC
Star Citizen and X Rebirth, oh my

shame about EVE though

Tell the bean counters to thank Navigator and Guard for lapsing subs
sally Deninard
mss industry
#864 - 2013-10-17 10:04:52 UTC  |  Edited by: sally Deninard
I`m giving up, I`ve had one question to ask throughout this whole debacle and nobody has been able to answer it.
I haven`t been repeatidly yelling and shiptoasting like a child, I`ve just asked... in various threads... that get locked....just like this one will.
The CSM had recognised there were problems with the draw before it went ahead and listed them HERE before the draw happened.
In the post they had brought to CCP`s attention that not everyone could compete in the SOMER draw and that was a problem.
CCP ignored them and continued anyway.

My question is why CCP,did you ignore the CSM and let a skewed lottery go ahead?
It`s an easy question ....

Frankly from my point of view CCP is unable to regulate itself, even with the tools to do so and that is why i`m offski 07.
It undermines even the work that themselves and the CSM are doing right now and makes a mockery of the CSM process.

To any of the CSM..

What makes you think that CCP will listen to you and the playerbase when a situation blows up again?


And stop spamming my inbox with re-subscription reminders CCP ffs... it`s just desperate.
Tina Tin Tits
Doomheim
#865 - 2013-10-17 10:50:43 UTC

If you are currently considering whether to leave, you might want to switch any accounts that are due for renewal soon to one month to minimise the expense of getting out....
Epikurus
TheBlacklist
#866 - 2013-10-17 11:04:45 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
Frying, the point is that
Quote:
Grey areas on the survey as in should gifts be given to for profit sites for prizes. The answer is NO, see no grey at all.


YOU not seeing grey areas is a factor of your perspective, others see things differently and therein lies the shadowy boundary rules. The grey.

m


The fact that an individual is unable or unwilling to grasp perfectly well-defined boundaries does not mean there is any kind of grey area. You are mistaking stupidity for complexity.
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#867 - 2013-10-17 11:23:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Trebor Daehdoow
sally Deninard wrote:
What makes you think that CCP will listen to you and the playerbase when a situation blows up again?

It is my experience that:

a) CCP listens to CSM after the sh*t hits the fan.

b) CCP listens to CSM when they brief us in advance about something and we say "that is a lump of sh*t approaching a fan". Note that in this case, you probably never hear about the situation.

These situations occur when:

c) CCP doesn't tell us something, so we don't get to smell-test approaching potential turds on fan-intersecting trajectories. (ie: the SOMER lottery)

d) Something just isn't on anyone's radar, until something else brings it to community awareness. (ie: the SOMER lottery sparking discussion of GTC-seller business practices).

The one thing that is entirely predictable is that no matter what, CSM will get sh*t on. (potential future candidates, take note!)

WRT to the politician analogy made a few posts back, keep in mind that CCP isn't a politician, CCP is the King. The King gets to set the rules, and if the King decides to change the rules, he does so by divine right.

CSM gets to tell the King, "Your Majesty, we believe what you are doing is bad for the Kingdom." Which is a polite way of saying, "My Liege, quit shitting on the people."

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery

Frying Doom
#868 - 2013-10-17 11:32:34 UTC
and the citizens get to either try and assassinate the king or flee the kingdom.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Din Chao
#869 - 2013-10-17 11:32:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Din Chao
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
* This issue is not going to be resolved quickly. The problem was a long time in the making, and it will be months in the resolution, if for no other reason than there are significant legal issues CCP has to take into consideration. Furthermore, a quick resolution is unlikely to be one you will like.

Sorry if CCP's legal department is so incompetent that it takes them months to work out a problem that should have been considered years ago. But that doesn't mean I have to continue paying them while they find their collective asses. That's not rage, BTW, it's simple personal finance. If I'm unhappy with a product, I'm not going to continue to buy it for a yet to be determined number of months in the hope that it will improve. I'll stop buying it, and only buy it if it improves.

So again, that's one less dissenting opinion for your eventual, redundant survey.
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
#870 - 2013-10-17 11:40:43 UTC
Din Chao wrote:
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
* This issue is not going to be resolved quickly. The problem was a long time in the making, and it will be months in the resolution, if for no other reason than there are significant legal issues CCP has to take into consideration. Furthermore, a quick resolution is unlikely to be one you will like.

Sorry if CCP's legal department is so incompetent that it takes them months to work out a problem that should have been considered years ago. But that doesn't mean I have to continue paying them while they find their collective asses. That's not rage, BTW, it's simple personal finance. If I'm unhappy with a product, I'm not going to continue to buy it for a yet to be determined number of months in the hope that it will improve. I'll stop buying it, and only buy it if it improves.

So again, that's one less dissenting opinion for your eventual, redundant survey.

Not Empty Quoting

seems CCP is committed to these 'special relationship's and gift giving, which is why they need their lawyers to do the legalese involved with sponsoring a casino. they also expect us to be mollified by what is likely to be a survey that doesn't explain the root of the issue and only offers questions that will lead to answers they want. we are also expected to wait months for this issue before it 'maybe' is resolved. please correct me where i'm wrong.
sally Deninard
mss industry
#871 - 2013-10-17 11:47:29 UTC  |  Edited by: sally Deninard
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
sally Deninard wrote:
What makes you think that CCP will listen to you and the playerbase when a situation blows up again?

It is my experience that:

a) CCP listens to CSM after the sh*t hits the fan.

b) CCP listens to CSM when they brief us in advance about something and we say "that is a lump of sh*t approaching a fan". Note that in this case, you probably never hear about the situation."


No offence but everyone including the CSM briefed CCP well in advance about the huge torrent of sh*t that was approaching.
They responded with a big f*ck you and f*ck the CSM (here are some better prizes SOMER btw)

So it`s fair to say that any future agreements and negotiations are just going to be a joke to CCP when it suits.
This is the real problem that everyone misses in this whole sh*tstorm, the fact the whole process is a sham.
Frying Doom
#872 - 2013-10-17 12:22:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
CCP is the King. The King gets to set the rules, and if the King decides to change the rules, he does so by divine right.

On further reflection why does this phrase make me feel like a massive F U is on the way to the playerbase?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#873 - 2013-10-17 12:31:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:

The one thing that is entirely predictable is that no matter what, CSM will get sh*t on. (potential future candidates, take note!)

WRT to the politician analogy made a few posts back, keep in mind that CCP isn't a politician, CCP is the King. The King gets to set the rules, and if the King decides to change the rules, he does so by divine right.

CSM gets to tell the King, "Your Majesty, we believe what you are doing is bad for the Kingdom."


1) The second and third sentences tell in a nutshell why CSM is a weak approach. It's a lot better than zero, but you guys get bypassed at whim, because CSM not only lacks of "veto" powers but also lacks of simple "visibility on everything" powers. Thus flying dogpiles can happily go for the fan without you being shown them.

2) The first sentence, is not just because of players prejudices or malice.

A real CSM member who cares would be a bit more vocal and a bit less "let's do a poll to see if breaking the law is OK or not".

It's a matter of common sense.
Sean DT
Revered Mining Corp
#874 - 2013-10-17 12:42:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Sean DT
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
Gentlepods,

Since people have taken it upon themselves to deliver some "realtalk", you will forgive me if I take the opportunity to do the same.

Participants in this thread should be aware that:

* This issue is not going to be resolved quickly. The problem was a long time in the making, and it will be months in the resolution, if for no other reason than there are significant legal issues CCP has to take into consideration. Furthermore, a quick resolution is unlikely to be one you will like.

* Raging and repeating your position at every opportunity is not constructive, and actively hurts your argument. All it does is sh*t up the thread, and drown out other voices. If you want to be taken seriously, you want to encourage broad discussion. Threads that have a high percentage of posts by a small number of posters are not taken seriously by anyone.

* The reason for the surveys -- both CSMs and CCPs -- is to gather more data from more members of the community. CSM needs that data in order to make the best possible arguments on your behalf; "the data says" is a better argument than "the opinion of my ass is".

I understand that people are upset. I am upset too -- my personal position is very similar to that of Argus Sorn. But giving in to your anger will not get you a good result; it just makes it easier to avoid addressing the merits of your arguments.

Best
Trebor


I just don't get the idea of the survey. I understand what you write about getting data, but the whole idea and concept of the CSM is that the CSM should function as a soundingboard for the community that elected them. They represent the community and should have both enough confidence, legitimacy, and feeling with the community to be taken seriously by CCP when voicing their opinions without needing to send out surveys. The survey is more or less useless for several reason:

1. A survey result is only as good as its interpretation and many questions can be interpreted differently both by the survey maker (CSM/CCP) and by the players answering the question.

2. If you need a suvey now when does it stop? Does the CSM then need a player-base-wide survey every time they have to deal with the CCP? Isn't the point of us electing you that we trust in your judgement without having to do large surveys every time an issue arises? The CSM are in the CSM council to be the voice of the players. If we disagree with your judgement we can elect new representatives in the future.

3. You have 40+ pages in this thread, granted with quit a bit of repetitive opinions, some hysteria/rage, but ultimately with a clear indication of the problem at hand and suggestions for its solution by many many different voices, not just a few repeaters. I as a normal player have read through the majority of this entire stack of posts and the least I expect from the CSM is that they do that too even if it isn't much fun. Grab a cold beer, bring in a box of cookies, and start reading. Make sure you take a pee break and have a smoke, then come back. Use a pen and a paper to note down the key points of the most interesting posts (there are several in between). Now you don't need the survey.

4. A lot of people are not going to answer a survey, it will get lost in the mail. do people with 10+ account's answers get more weight in the result, people's first language is not english, some don't even speak it, people misunderstand the question because they don't know the background for it and thus answers differently than they otherwise would, not everyone in a space game are old or mature enough that you necessarily want to base important game management decisions on their answers, etc etc etc.
A survey is a bad idea and the CSM function is exactly the opposite, so that CCP doesn't have to bother us all with surveys since they have you whom we have elected.

Good luck ! :) Twisted
DarkDecay
Real money traders
#875 - 2013-10-17 12:46:02 UTC
The Legendary Soldier
Elixa
I.N.F.A.M.Y
#876 - 2013-10-17 12:56:38 UTC
Sean DT wrote:
[quote=Trebor Daehdoow]Gentlepods,

3. You have 40+ pages in this thread, granted with quit a bit of repetitive opinions, some hysteria/rage, but ultimately with a clear indication of the problem at hand and suggestions for its solution by many many different voices, not just a few repeaters. I as a normal player have read through the majority of this entire stack of posts and the least I expect from the CSM is that they do that too even if it isn't much fun. Grab a cold beer, bring in a box of cookies, and start reading. Make sure you take a pee break and have a smoke, then come back. Use a pen and a paper to note down the key points of the most interesting posts (there are several in between). Now you don't need the survey.



True.
But they are not giving the answers CCP wants.

In a survey you can influence answers by the way you phrase questions.

Something marketeers and politicians have known for a long time.

Need to place a high-sec POS? Premade corps for sale, or your corps standings boosted. Trading since January 2012. Many corps sold/boosted - see my thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=63128&find=unread

Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
#877 - 2013-10-17 13:27:18 UTC
The Legendary Soldier wrote:

But they are not giving the answers CCP wants.

In a survey you can influence answers by the way you phrase questions.

Something marketeers and politicians have known for a long time.

we are dealing with marketeers and politicians here, and it is pretty easy to see what they're doing. it's a good thing Eve has a generally older / more mature audience, because a lot of us can see through the wool they're trying to pull over our eyes.
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#878 - 2013-10-17 13:36:43 UTC

ATTN CCP GUARD


raven666wings wrote:

Aknowledging the use of isk tokens to reward the GTC referrals in Somer Blink, EVE-GAMES.NET and other websites, CCP has apparently allowed everyone to set up their own GTC resale referral system+isk token reward.
Official confirmation from CCP on this would be nice before we proceed so that we not risk getting accounts banned for misunderstandings.


PLZ CONFIRM THIS FOR US
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#879 - 2013-10-17 13:41:11 UTC  |  Edited by: raven666wings
Hey CSM dudes, you wanna be helpful here to the community? Plz tell your godfathers to come down and make a statement to confirm that we can engage in the same conduct as Somer Blink, Eve-Games.net and other websites out there rewarding isk for GTC referals. Let's get this over with. Feel free to send me a poll asking if I like bananas, watermelons or pineapples too.
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#880 - 2013-10-17 13:52:54 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
A real CSM member who cares would be a bit more vocal and a bit less "let's do a poll to see if breaking the law is OK or not".

It's a matter of common sense.

If I had an ISK for every time someone's told me what a "real CSM" would do, I'd be richer than SOMER. Twisted

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery